<p>We’re missing the issue here. It is darned hard to get into an IIT or similar - and I have yet to see a slacker get in, let alone out, of one.</p>
<p>The issue in my view is that this educational arms race, fueled largely by Globalists et.al. is making it to our side of the ocean, whether we like it or not. And whether it’s justified or not.</p>
<p>It boils down to this. If I get canned from my cushy US job of 26 years and replaced with an IIT dude, no hard feelings - it’s a sport. But, as I wrote earlier, we’re well past the point where IIT’s matter. Most US management has formed an opinion as to the quality and value of non-IIT degrees based largely on the (proven) results by IIT’ians. </p>
<p>I saw the same thing in Europe in the 80’s where an MBA from an American school - largely ANY American school - was highly desired. Took a few years to realize that there are differences between Wharton and notWharton. I don’t see very many signs that this is happening now visavis IIT vs non IIT. A bit of a halo goes a long way. </p>
<p>Gotta run, we have a new Indian chick starting in our US operation and everyone is falling over cleaning her lab / desk space and making sure her stuff is all set up and such (are we gentlemen or what?)</p>
<p>This is so very true. This is just the start of globalization, and so far only manufacturing and IT has been impacted. All other knowledge based work will also be impacted in the coming decades. The only area that will not be impacted will be in person retail sales (think Walmart greeters). Otherwise, it is a global market, and if there is a cheaper alternative that’s where capital will go. If that cheaper alternative has even a perceived academic advantage, then all bets are off! All the well roundedness and social and leadership skills and such will not be a substitute for content knowledge.</p>
<p>The need for social and leadership skills will not diminish in the future. After all, without leaders who can recognize the meaningful differences between the mere regurgitators of historical knowledge and the knowledge innovators, little progress will be made.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Xiggi’s post #185. In my experience, social skills and interactive communication skills are extremely important components to career success. That coupled with the ability to use information as opposed to being a “parrot” are exceedingly important.</p>
<p>Perhaps the meaning of the word substitute is not clear to many. Or perhaps knee jerk reactions substitute for thinking before posting. Or perhaps some people just like to post on things that they know nothing about.</p>
<p>My point is simple - mere social and leadership skills will not be enough in future. One will need content knowledge as well. So, the days of being an English major, or dabbling in 20 subjects in a LA undergrad degree while not going deep in anything, but still getting to an executive role are numbered.</p>
<p>yeah IP we get your point… too bad you don’t seem to get that others disagree with your black or white, my way or the highway attitude. Your word is not the word of God on this matter…
NO one said social and leadership skills ALONE will be enough…They are saying that they matter TOO.</p>
<p>MPM, The job market for new college grads is brutal right now. For all the leadership and social skills, half of the jobs that new graduates get do not even require a college degree. This shows to me that the point Turbo made earlier about flooding the markets with college grads being a bad policy move is spot on. </p>
<p>Given that about 27% percent of Americans have a college degree or more, and adjusting for immigration the number is lower by a few percentage points, perhaps only about 10-15% of US kids should attend college, and those that do focus on learning something. Which, incidentally, is similar to the Indian model with few graduates but with deep knowledge and high standards. </p>
<p>The free market has a funny way of sorting things out. You can lower standards, use EC to keep out kids with high academic performance, and pump out more graduates, but those that made it because of lower standards will end up sweeping floors anyway. </p>
<p>Except, they will be saddled with a huge debt load on top.</p>
Data to support that? Some graduates may find themselves stuck taking a retail or food service job, but it is hopefully temporary. It is likely these graduates will eventually move on to jobs with a base requirement of a college degree.</p>
<p>Thumper- I think you point was overlooked earlier. Interesting that if foreign students want to attend an IIT, they will have to pay in full (don’t have a clue how much that is), yet how often do we see internationals posting/starting threads wanting to come to the US and expect to be given merit or need based scholarship money. Talk about entitlement.</p>
<p>Given the tough economic times, one has to wonder if the Imigration folks are going to tighten up on folks with student visas s with greater scrutiny, requiring them to return home rather than to seek employment in the US.</p>
<p>We can count on you to make a point and follow it up immediately with a … proof.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As you put it in such eloquent terms: </p>
<p>“Or perhaps knee jerk reactions substitute for thinking before posting. Or perhaps some people just like to post on things that they know nothing about.”</p>
<p>What is that you actually know about a liberal arts education, except that you think it deserves nothing but scorn and disdain?</p>
<p>JYM, I provided a link from where I got my data. As for forcing students to go back, they will take their jobs with them in today’s global economy. At least if they stay here they stimulate the US economy and pay taxes. Consider the Indian immigrant community for example. The richest ethnic group, they have created lots of employment opportunities for Americans through their leadership in technology and by creating startups.</p>
<p>You stepped on your pedestal to make one of your many diatribes heard. I merely pointed out that you also offered the proof that “Or perhaps knee jerk reactions substitute for thinking before posting. Or perhaps some people just like to post on things that they know nothing about.”</p>
<p>Xiggi, then I have no idea what you asked for, except that you have been hurt by your deduction that I treat LA graduates with scorn and disdain, which is not true.</p>
<p>Content knowledge will not be enough. One will need social and leadership skills as well.</p>
<p>I have interviewed some folks with fabulous book smarts…so has my husband (he works in a STEM field). Folks with good interactive, social and leadership skills can be last at a job…long enough often to receive good specific training by an employer. Those without the social and interactive skills either don’t get hired, or don’t last very long.</p>
(are we gentlemen or what?)</p>