<p>Let’s face it: Half of people are below average (median) in intelligence (no matter how you cut it up or define intelligence). Heck, if we want diversity, we should send less-than-average people to HYPSM… I mean, how else are you going to diverse points of view full of dogmatic and uniformed ideologies? Oh wait, we’re selective about what kinds diversity are considered valuable.</p>
<p>According to the government class I’m taking, 15% of people are considered “poor” (around or below the poverty line) and 45% of people are considered to be in the working class (in between the poverty line and the mean income level) - I don’t know about the Ivies, but at Vanderbilt, where I’m going to next year, only 40% of the student body qualifies for need-based financial aid - you have to be pretty rich to have an EFC of over 50 - 60k (I don’t Vandy’s precise COA off the top of my head)…</p>
<p>So these schools which recruit racial minorities arguably aren’t adding any more “diversity”. How many middle-class black and latino families know what it’s like to not be able to afford to eat for a day? Or know what it’s like to fear the local drug dealers more than the “legitimate” source of violence i.e. formal government? Helping out those people get collegiate education is not helping anyone break out of the “cycle of poverty” - the people who need the most help.</p>
<p>Those who argue in favor for AA argue for OUTCOME-based “equality”, not PROCESS-based “equality”… the premise of the former being that people of all races are fundamentally equal in all respects… I think the NBA and NFL show us that’s not true. Black people are intrinsically stronger and taller than the rest of us… Perhaps other races and genders are different? This isn’t about supremacy or who’s “best” but acknowledging that differences COULD exist and therefore an OUTCOME-based approach is based on a possibly false premise… Maybe all races are equally intelligent, for example, genetically. Maybe not.</p>
<p>As far as Caltech goes (and I’m saying this from experience going on a tour and spending time on their forum here), I think they feel they should only let in the very best because the classes are so tough there. I think the fear is that anyone who gets in because of relaxed standards wouldn’t really belong and may struggle.</p>
<p>ok it’s fine to have your own views and stuff, i am still neutral on this issue</p>
<p>but just be careful when saying stuff like that in public because it makes you sound like a racist ahole</p>
<p>you also have to realize that admissions counselors have heard a buttload of these arguments against AA and have their own opinions on the different races, the only reason it hasn’t been eliminated is because colleges don’t want to get sued by minority activist groups</p>
<p>yeah there’s no doubt that some unqualified ppl who get into college through AA will struggle, but they, that’s their problem</p>
<p>also, imagine if you went to college and were a minority and was STIGMATIZED because everyone around you felt this way about AA</p>
<p>Then your beliefs are missing a bible: a textbook. Like alamode pointed out, there were countless discriminatory policies enacted by the federal government against Asian Americans beginning in the mid 19th century, mostly towards the Chinese and Japanese. The blatant and demeaning racism by the whites towards the Chinese that led to the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 was as bad as the racism towards African Americans, but it is often overlooked because there is no NAAYP or Yellow Lions or Kanye East. </p>
<p>There was no nationwide discriminatory policy against Hispanics whatsoever. The only “historical disadvantage” Hispanics in the US can claim is that the government owned the far numerically superior Mexican army in the war, poured a bunch of whites into previously Mexican owned lands, and subjugated them with discrimination. Far less disadvantaging than an act barring a whole ethnicity from entering the country.</p>
<p>For so many people on here claiming to have aspirations of going into the sciences, there sure are some fundamental misconceptions going on. For one, race is a social construct, and you can stretch it and say it has a genetic basis only in so far as populations have common ancestors, come from the same region, and generally reproduce within themselves. In such a case, of course some genes will predominate, but at the end of the day, genetically, every member of a regional population (“race”) is an individual. Their intelligence can only be considered on an individual level.</p>
<p>Moreover, this pathetic obsession with trying to build yourself up at the expense of others is sad. Some groups have been historically disadvantaged, and the oppression continues to this day. Affirmative action is not a solution - it’s a way for liberals to make themselves feel better, on the whole. But most affirmative action critics critique it from the right, and tend to be closet racists or at the very least, social Darwinist-type capitalists. I’m very much so disgusted by this “race to the top” mentality. People don’t examine underlying sociopolitical structures that lead to such inequalities - between countries, between ethnic groups, etc. There’s no such thing as a “meritocracy” under capitalism anyway - when a CEO pockets money derived from not paying workers the full value of their labor, or when you have people working four or five jobs and struggling while celebs make ridiculous amounts of money because of American consumerism. Socioeconomic affirmative action only serves as a (very poor) band-aid for the basic contradictions of capitalism anyway.</p>
<p>If people were provided the tools necessary to reach their full potential, we wouldn’t be having this worn-out conversation.</p>
<p>^oh come on(theReach), face it. EVERY minority(hispanics, asians, blacks, jews etc) has faced racism, although blacks have had it the worst in the US</p>
<p>so please stop trying to differentiate between levels of racism
because if you were hispanic, you would be arguing that hispanics received more racism</p>
<p>So, OP regard countries in africa just the same as China- good places and bad plaves.
Redsox- let me tell you something.My parents came here with me, the clothes on their back, andv less than 1,000 in the bank. O.k.My father worked in the army- we lived in lower economic places, my parents cleaned toilets and all of this when they were BOTH doctors in our home country. I’ve gone to schools in the Bronx where I got slapped,cut in line- someone died in our playgorund- but my parents worked their way to where they are today- so don’t EVER GENERALIZE OR THINK that african immigrants don’t work as hard as any others. My parents worked twice as hard b/c they were black. Don’t even get me started on the discriminations we have faced, It happens to me all the time. So should I qualify for AA b/c my childhood was a hodgesmodge of moving and what not even though right now- both my parents are fine? I don’t know- but what I do know is that you ARE wrong.</p>
<p>and asians need to stop holding a grudge against other minorities/white in college admissions
because unlike what you may think, college adcoms are not that racist against you!!!</p>
<p>I love Caltech… decided not to apply, but my bro is there and as someone earlier said, they really couldn’t get nerdier. Good for them.</p>
<p>Of course college adcoms are racist against asians. People are inherently racist and whenever you see someone yelling at someone else for being racist, or feeling good about themselves because they believe they are not racist, guess what, they are probably a racist themself.</p>
<p>AA is unfortunate, because ultimately it is not people of a certain ethnic background that need help, but people of a certain socio-economic background. Oh well, life’s a ***** no matter what race you are, and then you die.</p>
<p>It’s not a matter of laziness. The two sets of immigrants come with completely different circumstances. Many of the Indians and East Asians come from the educated that are fortunate to get out and come to American Universities. A large proportion of the Asian parents at my high school were faculty or researchers at UCLA. Immigrants from Mexico and Central America are much more often lower class, unable to get jobs in their own country (and also relatively uneducated).</p>
<p>Sure the Chinese were discriminated against in the 19th century and early 20th, and the Japanese were discriminated against in the '40’s. The more recent arrivals, though have a much smaller disadvantage.</p>
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<p>No, you are wrong. Plenty of Whites and Asians get FA at places like Harvard. It’s not based on race - it’s based on their income bracket. Minorities (including Asians) are far more likely to qualify for a free ride, but whites can qualify too (I would’ve).</p>
<p>I don’t need to here you sob story, my parents faced the same plight as yours. They didn’t have any money in the bank when they came and my dad went to McGill and my mom went to Penn. You are right, it was wrong for me to generalize that all African Americans are lazy, etc. Everyone wants a better future for their family.</p>
<p>ThisCouldBeHeavn, you’re right that everyone can qualify depending on their income. Whatever, affirmative action is not that bad since it does bring atleast some diversity into schools. More culture the better.</p>
<p>i’m sick of thiswhole debate over AA. I really hate it b/c no one ( except blacks/ hispanics sometimes) can really disagree with it w/o sounding racist. It’s just that i hear people say things like:
African American immigrants are lazy
People in Africa live on trees
without AA africans aren’t smart enough to get into ivys
and it hurts- try to understand how you would feel
I’m sick of internalizing all this racism-
I really wish I could say I’m black or walk down the street without thinking- (i’m black- what does that person think about that? Does he/she think I’m stupid? If I take my baby brother to the laundromat-is everyone thinking he’s probably my kid because i’m black.
It’s a whole different way of thinking- you are always conscious of the one thing you can’t change- your skin.
And I guess I’m sick of having to worry about it and stress all the time.
So, I’m not going to post on this thread anyomre.
Yeah, I’m offended by some of your statements but I’m upset with more than you.
I’m just going to watch- I can’t keep losing my temper anymore. See you.</p>
<p>I’m white and lived in a foreign country where I was a minority and I never thought twice about my skin color… And then when I moved to America I was in a historically black magnet school for a while so I was still a minority… Are many black people “always conscious” of their skin color?</p>