Writing Pronoun question- HELP

[silverturtle]

<p>

In my opinion, silverturtle took the long way around answering this. Yes, while what he (she?) said is exactly correct, there are easier ways of addressing this. For me, placing the subject (in this case, “I” or “me”) at the beginning of the sentence rather than at the end usually solves the problem. In this case: “I was the actual recipient of the bad news.” NOT: “Me was the actual recipient of the bad news.” Therefore, “I” is would be correct. Restating in the most direct way almost always works for me.

</p>

<p>I suppose that this non-rigorous approach would work for pronouns. However, the following is an additional example of a subject complement:</p>

<p>He is upset.</p>

<p>Are we to apply your method and declare the sentence to be incorrect because the inverse is ungrammatical?</p>

<p>Upset is he.</p>

[deposition]

<p>

@silverturtle

I suppose that this non-rigorous approach would work for pronouns. However, the following is an additional example of a subject complement:
He is upset.
Are we to apply your method and declare the sentence to be correct because the inverse it ungrammatical?
Upset is he.

</p>

<p>There would be no reason to apply that method to that situation, because the subject is already at the beginning of the sentence.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>^ The subject is at the beginning of the OP’s sentence as well.</p>

[deposition]

<p>^ Subject as in “me/I”. Sorry if that wasn’t the correct terminology.
“The letter was intended for Besty and him, but the actual receipeints of the bad news were Peter and I/me.”</p>

<p>In the OP’s case, as you can see, I/me is at the end.</p>

[crazybandit]

<p>He’s basically saying that since the seemingly objective pronoun at the end is actually subjective because it defines the subject (by way of the verb “to be”) you might as well swap the original subject noun and the subjective pronoun to make a more traditional albeit not any more correct sentence: I . . . recipient. The swap doesn’t work the other way around for obvious reasons.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>deposition,</p>

<p>I am not sure what distinction you are making between</p>

<p>The actual receipeints of the bad news were Peter and me. </p>

<p>and</p>

<p>He is upset.</p>

<p>They are both incorrect by your method, and both have the subject at the beginning of the sentence.</p>

[crazybandit]

<p>^The discrepancy lies in the fact that the subjective pronoun ends the sentence (Recipients . . . were Peter and I). The “trick” of switching it with the original subject doesn’t work if there is no discrepancy (“He . . . upset”).</p>

<p>To put it simply, you are examining the converse (Y -> X would be the converse of X -> Y), which is not always true. Apples are fruits, but fruits are not apples.</p>

[deposition]

<p>

@crazybandit

He’s basically saying that since the seemingly objective pronoun at the end is actually subjective because it defines the subject (by way of the verb “to be”) you might as well swap the original subject noun and the subjective pronoun to make a more traditional albeit not any more correct sentence: I . . . recipient. The swap doesn’t work the other way around for obvious reasons.

</p>

<p>Nail on the head. Thanks. That’s the technical version of what I was trying to say.</p>

[parent62]

<p>[Pronouns</a> | Grammar Rules](<a href=“http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/pronoun.asp]Pronouns”>Pronouns | Pronoun Examples and Rules)</p>

<p>Very concise and thorough for pronoun usage, who vs whom etc.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>crazybandit,</p>

<p>I fully understand what distinction should be made (the aforementioned predicate adjective-predicate nominative discrimination), but deposition’s method can not make this distiction. I was attempting to get him to see the necessary role of the underlying grammar in providing a rigorous, broadly applicable explanation.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>If we understand the distinction necessary in deciding whether deposition’s method is appropriately applicable, there is no point in using the method; that is, if we understand that a verb is linking to something that is defining the subject (predicate nominative) and not modifying it (predicate adjective), the correct case of the complement is clear without inverting the sentence.</p>

[deposition]

<p>

@silverturtle

I was attempting to get him to see the necessary role of the underlying grammar in providing a rigorous, broadly applicable explanation.

</p>

<p>And like I said, your post was exactly right and I fully understood what you were saying. I was merely providing an alternative method of identifying the correct pronoun, which is easier to comprehend albeit less reliable, though it can be very reliable if you know when to apply it.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>

though it can be very reliable if you know when to apply it.

</p>

<p>See post #31.</p>

[crazybandit]

<p>

If we understand the distinction necessary in deciding whether deposition’s method is appropriately applicable, there is no point in using the method; that is, if we understand that a verb is linking to something that is defining the subject (predicate nominative) and not modifying it (predicate adjective), the correct case of the complement is clear without inverting the sentence.

You don’t necessary need to understand how the predicate nominative works beforehand to determine whether his “method” (it isn’t really a method; it’s just an exercise) is applicable. You just need to see the distinction between a pronoun (me, I) and an adjective (upset). </p>

<ol>
<li>The recipients were John and me.</li>
<li>The recipients were John and I.</li>
<li>The recipients were upset.</li>
</ol>

<p>We don’t need to know the grammatical distinction between 1 and 2; we can apply it to both: Me . . . recipients; I . . . recipients. Clearly, we know that #1 is incorrect and #2 is correct. We know #3 uses an adjective and not a pronoun/predicate nominative, so we don’t apply the process to #3.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>^ If you can distinguish adjectives from nouns and pronouns, you understand the difference between predicate nominatives and predicate adjectives, though you might not know the name.</p>

[PioneerJones]

<p>Life was so much simpler when the best method was “pick the one that sounds best.”</p>

[crazybandit]

<p>

^ If you can distinguish adjectives from nouns and pronouns, you understand the difference between predicate nominatives and predicate adjectives, though you might not know the name.

So what is your point? The process is still fine. It still determines which of the two–sentence #1 or sentence #2–is correct.</p>

[crazybandit]

<p>You know that “I” and “me” fall in the same category distinct from adjectives before you know that “Recipients . . . I” is correct.</p>

[silverturtle]

<p>

So what is your point? The process is still fine.

</p>

<p>Yes, there is nothing wrong (aside from inefficiency) with applying that process appropriately. I am merely pointing out that the knowledge required to determine whether the process is appropriate is all that one needs to determine whether the sentence is correct, even without using the process.</p>

[crazybandit]

<p>

Yes, there is nothing wrong (aside from inefficiency) with applying that process appropriately. I am merely pointing out that the knowledge required to determine whether the process is appropriate is all that one needs to determine whether the sentence is correct, even without using the process.

Yes, I understand that (should’ve worded it better), and you are wrong. Knowing the distinction between pronouns (I and me) and adjectives (upset) DOES NOT translate into knowing the distinction between the proper pronoun (I) and the improper pronoun (me). I don’t see how you came to that conclusion.</p>