I also worry about spending too much time trying to smooth out the rough edges for my kids learning experience, and not giving them the ability to develop emotional resiliency. I have to deal a lot with people not pulling their weight in the working world, and disruptions and slackers and so on. Looking back, some of the best learning experiences I got in high school were how to deal with those kinds of people and still be effective - granted, some of that was learning through failure, but that turned out to be fine as well.
I think thereâs a tendency to try to make sure our kids have everything lined up perfectly so they can just focus on learning, but they donât become resilient enough, or emotionally fragile. They learn that eventually as well, so it isnât a disaster⊠but I think a mix of experiences growing up would be beneficial.
On the flip side, I also have experience with my kids being pushed towards excellence by being around peers who push themselves, so thatâs important as well. My S23 was always on the border of being placed in the gifted programs. He was 1 percent below the score in 3rd grade, and we did not try to do the independent testing to get him placed in the gifted program and kept him in the âregularâ program. Same thing when it came time to do high school algebra in 7th grade. He missed the cutoff by one 1% on the prep test. The school said they could probably put him in the class but he was likely to find it very difficult, so we kept him in the regular class, and he took it in 8th grade.
However, his friend group was always the high achieving friend group, and he learned to set standards for himself based on what they were doing. Being around them gave him some idea of what was possible and expanded his world a bit. Now as a senior heâs kicking ass in calculus and physicsâŠ
So there are two parts to this⊠he did not have all those special classes early on, and he ended up doing great. But he also had a high achieving peer group which I do think pushed him quite a bit.
I agree on resilience, but it can be achieved in many ways. In our S honors classes they did not not need to deal with disruption in classes but they did need to manage different opinions on how a project should be completed or how to manage conflicting schedules. Social resilience was achieved in ECs and sports.
Yeah, there are a number of ways to achieve it, Iâm mostly speaking from my own fight with myself on trying to make sure my kids donât fail, while knowing that learning to deal with failure is a critical life skill.
Basically though I think smart, driven kids from well off families are going to do really well in many, many different situations though. The only caveat to that is no one should have to deal with a classroom where there are major safety or discipline problems. But that isnât an honors vs. non-honors thing â that is a basic requirement for any classroom that is too often being failed to be given to students in too many schools.
I do have a slightly different angle to say. First, we are probably somewhere between middle class and upper middle class. I swear at times it feels like we are not making any headway. My kids have lived a mostly comfortable life. They have been able to most of the things they wanted to do. I will say we donât take a big vacation each year.
D19 had been in honors and AP classes her whole life. Junior year of HS she takes AP Spanish Lang. She is one of four non-native speakers. Our HS runs the gambit in terms of income diversity. Many of the kids in that Spanish class were not the normal kids she hung out with. Being with them really opened her eyes about things in life. Like how some people donât have as easy life as she does. See growing up I was between lower middle class and middle class depending on if Dad was working. Overall she is a better person for having that experience.
+1 for why we have kept our kids in public schools and I think they are better for the experience of taking a mix of non-honors classes (there are no honors classes in 9th grade other than advanced math) and later APs. Our son was able to participate in a two-way immersion Spanish program from K-8th and the experience of being in a close-knit group of kids, half of whom were native speakers and many of whom come from quite different socioeconomic circumstances than he doesâŠwell, it was truly invaluable. Heâs a better person with more diverse friendships and the ability to navigate in all sorts of circumstances that Iâm certain would have otherwise been more uncomfortable for him. I love that he went to Kindergarten birthday parties in neighborhoods and homes he would never have otherwise encountered, and that his friends came to our house which is by no means fancy but, again, was pretty different than some of their own circumstances. Thatâs what public school is for. I hate that we as a country seem just ready to give up on it.
To the extent that the mode of learning is seminar discussion â which ought to be the case in any good humanities class â this isnât true. Twenty minds, or even four minds, interrogating a text is a completely different experience than doing it solo or as a dialogue with the teacher. But for that to happen, the other minds need to read the book and make an effort to engage in class. Everyone is missing out when that doesnât happen, including the kid who is making maximum solo effort.
It may be that for equity or other important reasons, tracking the kids isnât the right solution to this problem. But the problem is real. Every system has costs as well as benefits.
Here in AZ, we call that âopen enrollment.â Pretty much every public school and public charter school offers it and thereâs state laws which dictate who gets priority in the open enrollment period.
Yes, for sure. But the regular classes also chew up and spit out new teachers. Many donât last more than a year. Some not even a semester. And some of them that stay, probably shouldnât.
I canât remember exactly when older S went back to visit. I believe it was after 2 years. Only 2 of his teachers were left.
I know itâs a trivial point, but I did say âincludingâ before saying, âeffectively eliminating what served as SFâs honors high school.â Not that it was the only reason. Yes, the SF Board of Ed did do a lot of other ridiculous things along with eliminating the entrance requirements for Lowell HS, often in the name of equity, inclusion and diversity.
Fair enough â point taken, and thanks.
FWIW to anyone outside of the area who is interested to hear what happened with the SF School Board, this editorial is pretty much spot on in my view as to why they should have been (and were) recalled. I am personally comfortable with the idea of making Lowell a lottery, but the rollout of the change was badly botched. More salient though were all the boneheaded and destructive other moves by the board during the pandemic shutdown â Endorsement: Competence matters, even for progressives. Vote yes to recall LĂłpez, Collins and Moliga
When I went to school in the â60s, it was a mark of pride to be asked to grade other studentsâ papers because it showed you were doing well in class, and it never caused problems with other students. I donât recall my kids ever saying they did something like that, but I doubt that I ever told my parents I was doing it, either.
We have district of choice in my state. School districts can accept students from other districts based on space; once accepted, the students can stay throughout their k-12 schooling. Some school districts donât participate, and one charges tuition (I think itâs $10k/year). The funding from the studentâs home district follows the student, and because of this, the âhomeâ district has to agree to release the student (actually, the studentâs funding) to the new district; if they say no, itâs pretty rare. Districts have to accept either first come first served or lottery. They canât show preference. Transportation is not part of the deal. We also have charter schools, which do not require the home district to okay the move, have to accept by first come first serve or lottery, and may have (but donât guarantee) transportation in some areas.
My S was district of choice to the adjacent district for high school. His school was the same distance from our house as the school he âshould haveâ attended. He was able to ride a bus from the subdivision across the street because they had space. We chose to send him to that school not because he is better than the students in our district or because the school in our district is out of control. We sent him because he could continue to learn new things in an academically rigorous environment from day one. The socioeconomics of our two districts is similar. The difference for us is that the other district allows students to choose classes that challenge them, if they want to be challenged. The district has students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds, and he was aware that the kids in his honors classes represented that range.
When I was in my âintegratedâ middle school when dinosaurs roamed the earth, there were poor kids and kids of color in my classes, which I was well aware were tracked (and I was in the top track). It is wrong to believe that only kids from what some perceive as âgoodâ backgrounds can/will excel in school - or that being poor or a person of color somehow means students canât excel in school. If a big school doesnât have many poor kids or kids of color that can handle advanced classes, the district probably needs to backtrack to figure out where they are letting those kids down. Academic aptitude is not limited to those kids whose parents have money, care, live in the right neighborhood, are a certain color ⊠so if a district is finding that the high school doesnât seem to have enough equity in advanced classes, there is a problem in younger years that needs the full attention of district administrators and staff.
Agreed. It seems that bright girls ( not boys) are sometimes pushed into this role as teaching assistants. My daughter never wanted to be a teacher. That wasnât her job.
My son was a TA in his senior year. It was an educational experience. He spent time creating new material the previous summer. And that material is part of the curriculum now. They let him teach the class for 6 weeks.
My Dâs 3rd grade teacher did that and my D hated every minute of it. She felt singled out in class and it felt like a punishment. She much preferred being sent to the library.
Itâs different in college though, where many kids work as TAs. I believe the other posters were referring to having their kids be unofficial TAs/tutors in elementary or middle school.
I meant he was a TA when he was a senior in high school. Not college. It was a very positive experience. Of course that is not elementary or middle school.