WUSTL vs. Brandeis. How much in loans is too much? And other stuff.

Paying for College
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<p>The earlier poster that states he doesn’t buy into rankings much, of course, is relying entirely on one subjective ranking-- US News. In fact, Washington U is ranked lower than Brandeis in other quite reputable rankings. That is indeed remarkable given that Wash U is 160 years old and has twice as many students. But, in fact, Brandeis’s strength is that it is the smallest of all major research universities.</p>

<p>Academically, Brandeis is an LAC on steriods. Lot’s of attention in small classes taught by a world-class research faculty. And the research opportunities for undergraduates are tremendous. In a recent Forbes national college rankings survey, Brandeis was ranked
15th among research universities and 30th overall among all private univerities and LAC’s–a testament to its focus on undergraduate education. Larger schools, including some Ivies, were ranked much lower. The outsized accomplishments of Brandeis alumni in its short history, which I mentioned in my earlier post, also suggests that this nurturing but rigorous environment really pays off for Brandeis students.</p>

<p>As for reputation, I believe the two schools are comparable in academic circles–although, frankly, outside of academia, don’t be surprised if most folks assume Washington University is a public university in Washington State. </p>

<p>As far as location is concerned, if you’re interested in being near a big city,I believe it’s Brandeis hands down. As a Brandeis alum, its proximity to Boston was one of the reasons I originally selected it–it’s a cultural mecca and the world’s best college town. I’ve visited St. Louis and can say with confidence that it is not.</p>

<p>My simple point to the OP is that both schools are excellent, they are not in “different categories” and they have their respective merits. He should decide for himself.</p>

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<p>Would you mind pointing me to some of the rankings? I am interested in reading the opinions. I know Brandeis is an amazing institution but when I visited it seemed slightly dull and I didn’t fall in love with it. I am visiting again for Admitted Students’ Day next Monday and hope I like it more then. I do like the idea of Brandeis being near Boston, but that’s the issue. It’s near Boston. Most of my friends there say they don’t go into Boston much because it’s slightly annoying to travel. Did you make much use of Boston’s opportunities when you were there?</p>

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<p>For the record, it takes 27 minutes to go from Brandeis to North Station. Heck with the money you save, you can get a car.</p>

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<p>I am still going to be in debt, I can’t afford a car.</p>

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<p>Gunther, I may be wrong, but I honestly think your prospects for getting into the publishing industry would be stronger coming out of Brandeis than WUSTL. Try to get your mind off of the US News list and into thinking about location. </p>

<p>Since you want to get into publishing, I suggest that you check to see what starting salaries are for copy editors.</p>

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<p>To get depressed, you mean? I know how it works. I know how seemingly stupid my career choice is, but unlike some people, I want to follow my passion. And I will take different routes to get there if necessary. And I plan to get an MA afterwards, so…</p>

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<p>FWIW, Meredith Viera graduated w/ a bachelor’s in English (magna cum laude from Tufts) and she sure is making the big bucks!</p>

<p>[Meredith</a> Vieira - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_Vieira]Meredith”>Meredith Vieira - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>The original poster said:
8-12k per year in loans from WUSTL.
3k per year in loans from Brandeis.</p>

<p>Either way, he’s going into debt.</p>

<p>Hopefully WUSTL can match the financial aid package, which would reduce the question to a matter of personal opinion: “do i like Brandeis or WUSTL more.” The original poster really seems to indicate from his various posts that he might like WUSTL more as a school, and the financial issue is why he posted here. I very much respect his decision to weigh everything equally – I feel that most high schoolers probably aren’t this mature in their thought process, and we should applaud him for giving it this much thought. </p>

<p>If he didn’t like WUSTL more, then there would be almost no use posting on this forum asking if he should go to Brandeis. Based on this information, is WUSTL worth that extra amount in debt, given that he’s taking out debt either way? </p>

<p>In sheer principal, it would be $5k - $9k more per year. Clearly, interest accruing on loans is a factor, but if he’s diligent about getting summer jobs or paying off the interest portion while in college, it will help him a lot. Any financial aid office can work with him to set up reasonable payment plans and lots of students make the interest payments while in college, so that they only have to deal with the principal after graduation. </p>

<p>Furthermore, what’s with all the comments implying that English majors don’t get good jobs? While there’s no direct field that English majors are employed in, they don’t all become starving writers. Being a lawyer, working in marketing or communications, advertising, PR, publishing houses, etc, are all relevant and well-paying fields.</p>

<p>I firmly believe that Wash U is worth $5k - $9k more in loans per year. I mean, let’s hope that WUSTL can adjust the package a little bit, but if not, I really don’t see Brandeis as a peer school to WUSTL. They are in different crowds. I am not knocking Brandeis at all. I haven’t gone there so I’m not commenting on specific things about it, and by all accounts it seems like an amazing place that has clearly produced proud alumni based on people posting on this forum, but it isn’t in the same league as Wash U. </p>

<p>I’m not even saying that WUSTL’s league is “better” than Brandeis’s. Every one has a difference preference set in colleges. In my opinion (I go to Wash U and this is THE reason why I chose to attend Wash U) – Wash U is a major research university with the best of the best students and faculty, but is about as small-liberal-artsy as you can get for a school like this. WUSTL never feels large. It feels like a tight community… large enough to offer everything you want, but small enough to get the individual attention you want. In rankings for Graduate English programs, Wash U > Brandeis (there are no undergrad English rankings), too. Brandies alums: don’t get defensive because I am not at all bashing, degrading, or implying your school is lesser or not as good as Wash U. They’re just not peer schools, plain and simple, and one peer group is NOT better than another. </p>

<p>The phrase “all else being equal” is important. All else being equal, follow your heart in going to college. Any high schooler should follow his heart when looking at colleges. Even if that means going to University of South Main Street over Harvard, all else being equal. For the evidence relevant to the original poster on this thread, the use of the phrase “all else being equal” revolves around financial aid. </p>

<p>I really don’t think that an extra $5k - $9k per year violates the use of the question “all else being equal, should I go to Brandeis or Wash U?” That amount is NOT significant enough to justify where someone should spend the next 4 years of your life and what college you want to call your alma mater for the rest of your life. You’ll be 22 years old when you finish college with the rest of your life ahead of you to pay back that small amount of money. Make this decision on which school you like more and feel will offer you better opportunities and give you the best damn 4 years of your life.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the compliment. I certainly agree with you for the low end of the difference, 5k more a year I can handle. $30k in debt doesn’t seem like an insane burden. But the high end. The extra $16k-$20k I feel could weigh me down. I also agree that Brandeis and Wash U are not peer institutions, but would it still make sense for me to mention my Brandeis merit scholarship to Wash U? WUSTL basically said they can meet the high end of my range (closer to 14k a year actually) assuming those who matriculate leave some money leftover. But the extra debt after that, would trying to get a small (5k/year) merit scholarship from WUSTL be rude and irrelevant?</p>

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<p>No to get REAL. You are going to come out of college in 4 years and you will have to go to work. The first thing that will happen is that you will receive notice that you have to begin paying back your loans within 6 months – so you will have 6 months to go out and find a job that will earn enough money for you to live comfortably and make the payments on your loan. </p>

<p>The more debt you have, the fewer options. Less debt means that you will be able to afford to opt for positions that pay less but that provide an entry way into your career of choice – plenty of opportunities for would-be writers & editors to work for cheap, not so many salaried positions. More debt means that you may be waiting tables. </p>

<p>The debt you are talking about isn’t impossibly high. But it is going to limit your options post-grad.</p>

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<p>I do understand the reality of the situation. But I have so many options as an English major while I am paying off debt. I can manage without luxuries for several years in order to pay off debt. In the long run, if it’s several thousand a year in difference, I think it’s acceptable to take on the burden. I also think I will be capable of paying off part of the loans (at minimum the interest) while in college.</p>

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<p>You can do what you want – your the person asking for advice. </p>

<p>I can tell you that your loans are likely to go up incrementally each year, because that is the way financial aid works.</p>

<p>It has been my observation over the years that the very top colleges tend to limit the debt they impose on students. Both of the LAC’s that my kids attended had a very specific debt-limiting policy that was given to us at the outset – students were not expected to take more than the maximum subsidized Stafford loans. Of course some elite school waive loans entirely. </p>

<p>I do know that there are some schools that rank well on US News that have stingier financial aid practices – but to me that is factor that would tend to reduce the standing of the institution. US News has an arbitrary methodology that is used to sell magazines, and they have been known in the past to rejigger the methodology if they didn’t like the results. Many colleges engage in a variety of practices aimed to boost their rankings, but that doesn’t make them into better colleges. See [A</a> Mighty Fund-Raising Effort Helps Lift a College’s Ranking - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/us/a-mighty-fund-raising-effort-helps-lift-a-college-s-ranking.html]A”>A Mighty Fund-Raising Effort Helps Lift a College's Ranking - The New York Times)</p>

<p>But again, you can do what you want. </p>

<p>But it never ceases to amaze me how so many supposedly intelligent students going off to super-selective colleges can be so blind to the consequences when it comes to financial planning.</p>

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<p>I don’t believe I am being blind to the consequences rather evaluating what would be a reasonable amount to deal with in relation to the fact that I would rather go to Wash U.</p>

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<p>You’ve gotten the advice that you’ve asked for. It seems that you are now making the decision having carefully considered the alternatives, and I think that’s the best you can hope for. </p>

<p>It is ultimately your life, and this is YOUR decision. </p>

<p>I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide, and sorry if I sounded at all condescending.</p>

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<p>Thank you. Not too condescending.</p>