<p>Then its just all the Yalies I know...</p>
<p>I love reading through all these old threads of mine :D</p>
<p>I highly doubt Yale is 90+% liberal... Even Berkeley is nowhere near that, and that's saying something. Here's something noteworthy:</p>
<p>lol to put it bluntly.. Yale's better .. but not by a lot ...although there are some common ground. The open curriculum and liberalness of Brown has already been mentioned.</p>
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Yale's better .. but not by a lot
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<p>Shad, it's all relative. In my eyes Brown is the better school, while Yale is on top in your opinion. Different people have different opinions, and different criteria based on which they make their judgments. I know, there's no real reason behind this post, but I just wanted to point that one thing out. :)</p>
<p>Better in terms of... prestige? Ranking? What?</p>
<p>kwu... better in terms of prestige obviously.. i doubt anyone would disagree with that. Rankings.. yes it is better in the rankings.. some international rankings place Brown as low as 71st.... I am saying Yale is an overall better school than Brown in my opinion. Like tetris thinks, she finds Brown better because it suits her preferences. I am not applying to either though. In terms of quality of education , i feel they are similar but Yale still has the advantage. There are many advantage that comes with being the 'higher Ivy's primarily more popularity and international prestige. For some reason, the 'lower ivys' except Cornell seem to be absent from International Rankings. One of them did not even have Dartmouth in the top 100. Although that ranking is questionable, i am just stating what i believe and what a lot of other do.</p>
<p>Here is my take on both the schools. I recently visited both with my daughter.</p>
<p>Academics: Yale is much superior to Brown; the atmosphere is conducive to studying. Most of the students we met at Yale had more depth. Yale emphasizes broad liberal arts education but do have curriculum for professional (Engineering) or pre-professional (pre-med, pre-law) streams. Brown's lack of any curriculum was scary. There were junior students at Brown who never had a lecture class. Many students received BA degrees without major at Brown which was not appealing at all.
Surroundings and college life: Providence beat New Haven hands down. We are from California and knew Connecticut to be an upscale area but New Haven is horrible as a place to be. It is scary to be out on your own at night in the vicinity of Yale. While East Providence Hills where Brown is located is very comfortable. There is a street just next to campus full of shops and has very active night life. It is relatively safe too. Area is neat and well kept.
Dorms and Residential life: Yale beats Brown as there concept of residences are far superior and guarantees on campus housing for all 4 years. At Brown residence is not guaranteed for 4 years.</p>
<p>As a parent we are really scared of the New Haven area surrounding Yale.</p>
<p>I've been to both, and while they have there differences, I think they are the two closest Ivy Leagues, in terms of overall experience.</p>
<p>I give the advantage in all of these only by slight margins:
Academics: Yale
Happiness: Brown
Surrounding City: Brown
Campus Aesthetics: Yale
Diversity: Brown
Liberal Lifestyle: Brown
Politically Liberal: Yale and Brown</p>
<p>Providence definitely beats New Haven.</p>
<p>But honestly, I think the kids at these two schools, could be interchanged a bit, and they would be happy at either places.</p>
<p>I agree with iloverpeople712. It's not unusual for kids to apply to both schools. By Feb, these were the only two Ivies my son was interested in. Both schools are great schools. Competition is great and you can be assured that students at both schools are accomplished academically as well as in other areas. In general, Yale students are said to be more intense academically, more driven in the pre-professional sense, but it may just be that a higher % of Brown students choose to go into non-profit work upon graduation. My son was accepted to both schools. Yale offered a sliightly better FA pkg. Brown took another look and was able to improve its pkg so they were very similar (and generous). The NEW FA policies have actually improved at both schools.</p>
<p>My son did an overnight at Yale and was impressed with all his suitemates. One spoke 6 languages. Two were from other countries. All were bright, driven, intense. Only one was the stereotypical "rich kid." My son sat in on some classes. Some were amazing, some disappointing. On another visit, I stayed in a hotel near campus and was very comfortable walking around at night by myself. Then again, I'm comfortable walking around NYC but know there are areas to avoid. My son commuted to Columbia every week during senior yr and this summer, he commuted alone by bus and subway to a job in Manhattan. I don't think New Haven is as bad as some make it out. I imagine most students don't regularly need to go much beyond Yale's campus, as many shops are within walking distance. </p>
<p>Providence has more to offer and is definitely more accessible. Students can walk to the train and bus stations as well as the mall. There's also a free trolley that students can take around the town/city. Thayer Street is right on the edge of campus and has the bookstore, all kinds of restaurants, and businesses like GVS, dry cleaners, eye glass store (which is helpful when you break your glasses playing bball). It's fairly easy to get to Boston, Cape Cod, Newport and NYC from the bus/train station/ferry. I even think Brown offers transportation to the airport and public transportation is available.</p>
<p>Academically the schools offer tremendous opportunities - strong student bodies, great professors, research opportunities, facilities. Both have good reputations for teaching undergrads. My father-in-law earned his masters at Yale in forestry (an uncommon major still offered) and it was a great opportunity/experience. I personally preferred Yale's old campus. The library and dorms were beautiful. I also liked the residential system as I think it might create a more cohesive group. I was surprised at Yale to see the old style science labs - they hadn't changed since MY science labs. Walking through those huge, old, heavy wooden doors, climbing up the worn-down steps that actually sunk in the middle made me stop and think about all the students who had been there before us. It was certainly impressive. </p>
<p>I didn't get that same feeling on Brown's campus. But when I think of it, Yale had a bunch of buildings I didn't like either. The newer dorms are nothing like the old, and students are displaced while their "college" is being redone. Science Hill is about a mile away - which in winter is not a fun walk at all. Granted Yale offers shuttle buses but that's what we hate about our state university so we didn't consider that a positive. </p>
<p>Some information posted about Brown is misleading. At Brown, students don't just take any old thing they want for 4 years and then graduate with a degree that has no focus. Students declare a "concentration" - which is basically the same as a "major", just different terminology. Even at Brown, students MUST complete a certain set of classes determined by their academic dept plus a writing class. Perhaps there are other requirements depending on their specific major. I think my son has 14-15 courses for his major. Students must take 8 semesters as full time students. But beyond a student's major (and some kids complete 2 majors), Brown lets students choose what other classes to take. NO distribution courses. No general ed classes (something MANY schools have eliminated). Students are encouraged to explore interests in many areas or delve deeply into an interest they may have. Choosing what to take requires some maturity.</p>
<p>Students normally take 4 classes a semester, but my son and MANY of his friends have opted to take 5 classes "just because you can". Students take most, if not all, classes for grades. Pass/fail tends to be used for new subjects that a student wants to try (Intro to Neuroscience and Econonics are VERY popular). Much is made of the pass/fail system but few students take many classes pass/fail. First of all, when students do use this option, they usually find they still work as hard and they should have just gone for the grade. Since they are only taking classes they have chosen to take, they are engaged and fully invested. Grades are also needed when applying to grad school. The downfall is they can make stupid decisions, like my son who as a second semsester freshman chose to take 4 science classes. Since he was able to skip a bunch of intro classes, he was eager to take them, not realizing how intensive upper level neuro science classes/labs are. He did fine, but he is NOW listening to his advisor(s) and taking a more even schedule. He's currently starting a new language (something he said he wanted to avoid in college). Somehow once he wasn't forced to study a language, it suddenly seemed appealing. </p>
<p>Like I said, both are good schools. Yale is more prestigious, here in the US and throughout the world. Brown students are consistently ranked "happier" and Yale is consistently ranked higher overall. That may matter to Yale students. Rankings don't seem to matter that much to Brown students. That's ONE of the differences in the student bodies. Both are liberal environments.</p>
<p>Now that I've had some experience at college, and reread this thread, I want to withdraw my skepticism.</p>
<p>In terms of a serious, sharp, intellectual learning environment, Yale would be the better place to go. And, if you are that kind of person, who wants a serious challenge out of college, and who wants many keenly intelligent people to have discussions with, then Yale is your choice. You get the bonus of prestige as well.</p>
<p>ParentofIvyHope, your knowledge of Brown is extremely lacking and it's quite a shame that you feel the need to spew your ignorance on these boards. </p>
<p>Brown's lack of any curriculum was scary. There were junior students at Brown who never had a lecture class. Many students received BA degrees without major at Brown which was not appealing at all.</p>
<p>First off, what's wrong with never having taken a lecture class? Lecture classes are arguably the least beneficial to students, especially when compared to the more Socratic seminars that are offered. And second nobody at Brown graduates without a major. That's just stupid. Every student is required to have at least one major (called concentrations) and each concentration has its own set of required courses. </p>
<p>*Dorms and Residential life: Yale beats Brown as there concept of residences are far superior and guarantees on campus housing for all 4 years. At Brown residence is not guaranteed for 4 years. *</p>
<p>Um...Brown does in fact guarantee housing all four years. </p>
<p>*Yale is much superior to Brown; the atmosphere is conducive to studying. Most of the students we met at Yale had more depth. Yale emphasizes broad liberal arts education
*
Students have to study a lot at both colleges, so I don't really see what you're trying to get at. Also, Brown is just as "liberal arts" as Yale, if not more so, due to the nature of its open curriculum.</p>
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Lecture classes are arguably the least beneficial to students, especially when compared to the more Socratic seminars that are offered.
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<p>Haha, I completely agree. At Amherst (Open Curriculum), the introductory Law course is a 100 person "lecture" class where our professor runs around the room assaulting unsuspecting students with questions, crafting witty, unusual scenarios. It's wonderful, the Socratic lecture.</p>
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Students have to study a lot at both colleges, so I don't really see what you're trying to get at.
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<p>The quality of students is very, very important. Yale arguable attracts a larger portion of competitive, insightful, and argumentative students, and that's really conducive toward creating a genuinely stimulating intellectual environment.</p>
<p>i think a lot of people see close similarities between brown and yale--among the ivies both have a uniquely romantic, artsy, socially conscious atmosphere.</p>
<p>like the son of a previous poster, i chose brown over yale (albiet many years ago now) while a close friend chose yale over brown. throughout college we often compared experiencies and found that our initial impressions of the schools were more or less on the mark.</p>
<p>there are differences, of course--most of which are knitty gritty details. the largest might be the open curriculum at brown vs. distribution requirements at yale. at brown, the curriculum essentially ensures that each person in your class is passionately engaged in the subject matter since they chose to be there. at yale, the requirements usually ensure that in the higher level classes, each person has a greater depth of knowledge in a specific area. as a result, the classroom experiences can be a little different. also, my impression was that the residential college system at yale is both awesome and stifling--the "niche" cultures at brown are both exciting and potentially isolating (if you are not self-motivated and naturally curious).</p>
<p>the bottom line that few will argue is that both are great places and you can't go wrong.</p>