^Not exactly. The guy who took your stuff is the perpetrator. He is not a “criminal” until he has been judged (or admitted)to have committed a crime. Until then, he is a suspect.
S/he is merely a “person of interest” unless there is any evidence whatsoever that he’s the perpetrator.
I understand that he had on EXACTLY what the students said the suspect had on - down to the hat. Even his father is not saying that the stop was wrong, just that the officer should not have done it with his gun drawn. That could have ended very badly. The subject was quickly apprehended close by, in an almost identical outfit. I am happy for the quick response from the police. That’s why Yale has its own force.
A very nice message from the President and Dean of Yale went out to the Yale community apologizing for the incident and stating that he understands how this would make the students feel unsafe. There is going to be an internal investigation on why the officer drew his gun and they promised to make the results of that investigation available.
This just shows that there is no safe place. Reminds me of a male friend who is an ER doctor. Gets stopped late at night coming home from his shift cause he is driving a nice car in the “wrong” neighborhood. He always says he hopes that none of those officers ever end up in his ER needing his assistance. He may think twice - or at least ask them to they now want to question him about who he is and see his ID. [He is not serious - no nasty responses. He takes his oath seriously]
The guy who takes my stuff is a criminal, although he may never become a convict. If he goes to trial, he may become a defendant. Or someone who had nothing to do with the situation may become a suspect, and then a defendant, and then even a convict. But the guy who committed the crime is still a criminal, regardless of whether he is ever arrested.
This is one of my pet peeves in local news reporting. No, the “suspect” did not walk into the bank and demand money from the teller, the bank robber did that. They guy the police are looking for, or the one they eventually arrest, is the suspect.
My pet peeve is ‘innocent until proven guilty’, it is ‘presumed innocent until proven guilty’, a totally different kettle of fish.
@Tperry1982, I know someone who had a state trooper walk into the ER complaining of lower abdominal pain and bragging about all the speeding tickets he gave out. Let’s just say the officer got a very thorough examination.
Sometimes it seems like people think that police should wait until they get shot at to take the gun out of the holster.
Scary situation for the kid? yes. Harm done? no.
Someone asked if the kid reaches for his ID if he would get shot. Do you make sudden movements when someone is pointing a gun at you? Or really, ANY movements that you are not explicitly told to make?
Are you one of the stupid people that start immediately reaching for their glove box when you get pulled over for speeding or running a stop sign?
soccerguy: I’ve never had a gun pulled on me. I don’t know how I’d react. Yes if I’m pulled over I reach for my papers and didn’t know you weren’t supposed to do that…?
Most kids are probably in that situation, too.
I’d argue harm done, yes - it’d certainly traumatize me to see a person supposed to protect me pulling a lethal weapon toward me as I walk from the library (from another experience that was less traumatic than that, it’d probably mean my poor roommate would be woken up by screams every night for months); harm done to the student body and to Yale, probably. The point is that Yale pays its police force so that students are and feel safe - and this action made them feel very unsafe. However an internal investigation has been launched in order to repair students’ sense of safety and Yale’s managing this responsibly as to avoid any image damage, so the only victim left here is the kid who got a gun pulled on him.
If you’re pulled over you’re supposed to put your hands high on the steering wheel so the cop can see them. Nothing scarier to a cop than walking up to a car where someone might pull a gun on them. If they see you rummaging about on the floor, or the side, or the glove compartment, they are thinking the worst, especially at night.
The issue is not the stop and question, it is whether pulling a gun on a person that fits the description of a suspect is typical or is more likely if the suspect is a young man of color. The officer seemed to presume that this was the suspect, even though the kid did not run away when confronted. Even if the description fit, would the officer had been more cautious about pulling his gun and presuming this was the suspect, if the kid’s race matched that of a typical Yale student or would he have thought that this might be the suspect, but might also be a student coming back from the library. As the dad wrote, it is not the questioning, it is the gun drawn that is the concern.
The situation that Blow Jr experienced is no one’s idea of a good time, but it is really a life changing trauma, and an abrogation of Yale’s PD to keep the students feeling safe? Again, I don’t know anything about this incident except what was in the NYT column, but it sounds like the student matched the description of a criminal, was stopped, questioned, and released. Were they not supposed to stop and question anyone? Is there a policy on drawing the gun that was violated?
That is the question. Is there or should there be a policy on drawing the gun for a stop and what would the police have done if the student were not a minority.
If the student were not a minority he would not have been stopped because he wouldn’t have matched the description of the robber. It is certainly fair to ask whether Yale cops without backup typically pull their guns on white suspects in similar conditions. Similar meaning similar alleged crimes, time of day, and other conditions.
“Someone asked if the kid reaches for his ID if he would get shot. Do you make sudden movements when someone is pointing a gun at you? Or really, ANY movements that you are not explicitly told to make?”
If we say that officers are not responsible when they shoot a suspect because they say the suspect moved or twitch suspiciously, then there have to be clear procedures about when it is reasonable to draw the gun.
I don’t know whether it is reasonable in this case or not, but every time an officer shoots someone, we can’t just say that mistakes happen. There need to be rules around it.
@greenwitch - LOL
I agree (although do we actually know that the officer didn’t have backup?). What I don’t get is how anybody who has been living in this country in the last few decades can possible think that it is just as likely for the police to pull their guns on a white guy as on a black guy. I mean, I would like this to be the case, but the evidence seems to me to be quite to the contrary.
Of course, it may turn out that this particular police officer violated procedure and is an individual loose cannon in some way. I’m not aware that there have been a lot of complaints about profiling by YPD.
Also, I think it’s all about the hat.
I reiterate that there is going to be an investigation on whether or not it was in accordance with departmental protocol for the officer to have its gun drawn when he approached the student/suspect. Being a part of the Yale family, I have no doubt that they will investigate it completely and transparently because they are very vested in making students, faculty, alumni and parents feel that the school is a safe environment. As an alum and current parent, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
As for the trauma being experience by Blow, unfortunately, he joins the ranks of thousands of men of color who have experienced the same thing. His family and community will help him to deal with it. This is what we do for our children - teach them how to navigate society and remind them that our affluence does not make us immune.
From some Yale-based reports, the kid is dealing with it better than his dad is. I think I’d be reacting like the dad, too, if it was my kid.
This was the dad’s issue before the incident. So, it’s still the dad’s issue. Although, his issue was shooting and no-one was shot here. Stopping and question happens to white people, too. The policy on when to draw the gun and if it has ever been drawn on a white suspect should be interesting information, though.
In fairness, the dad’s issue is also the gun, not so much the stop and question.