I can’t decide between the two, here are the pros and cons I can think of:
Harvard:
+plenty of stuff to do
+Smithsonian Institute (I want to study astrophysics)
+astrophysics is its own major
+can sit in on classes before deciding
+phD is under astronomy AND astrophysics
+my high school is known for sending kids off to harvard
+harvard is richer
+better reputation (I know they’re both fantastic schools, but I will probably live in a foreign country when I’m older, and I suspect Harvard will get me more recognition. Plus the connections Harvard has is INSANE)
-bad social life (but I heard I can sneak off to MIT’s parties)
-can’t double major/minor in international relations
-campus isn’t that good
-I heard the people are snobby?
-weather sucks (but I can live with it)
Yale:
+good social life
+I can double major/minor
+can sit in on classes before deciding
+weather is slightly better
+there’s strong pride/unity among the students
-phD is under astronomy
-smaller city (I’m afraid there will be less stuff to do and I’ll get bored)
-campus isn’t that good
Also I live in Boston so I’m super near Harvard but idk if that’s a pro or a con lmao.
The things that concern me the most are the social life, which one I have better chances of getting in, if I can double major/minor in IR or if I can only take classes, if my phD will be under astrophysics or astronomy, and how much influence the school will give me. Actually, as I type this out, I lean more towards Harvard, but that’s from a practical aspect. I remember my visit to Yale being much more memorable and enjoyable, and the students seemed to really love Yale. I didn’t get this feeling form Harvard, which is why I’m hesitating. How can I decide? Should I just try visiting again over the summer?
Harvard and Yale don’t offer Early Decision, only Single Choice Early Action. I’d also advise you to resist considering PhD matters–where you go for undergrad doesn’t really have a bearing on where you get your PhD–a Harvard or Yale Bachelor’s degree won’t get you into Harvard or Yale’s PhD programs.
It’s actually a bad idea to get your undergrad where you want to get your PhD from. Most colleges want their undergrads to be exposed to different ideas in grad school/attend a different school, so they’ll either make it very hard for them to get in or outright refuse to receive their applications. 5-year combined bachelor/master programs are the exception.
It is a bad idea, not just for the graduate school application, but also for your career. I got my PhD 19 years ago and I have heard many story like that.
The general rule is that it isn’t ideal to get a bachelors and PhD from the same school, but if you are talking Harvard or Yale then I think it will be just fine.
As for where the OP should apply SCEA, it should be the school he/she prefers out of those two. None of us can predict which environment would be better for the OP.
The things you listed that would distinguish Harvard and Yale are not things you will likely be aware of or experience when you are on campus. You are NOT going to notice a monetary difference. Your undergraduate experience has no impact on where you go for a PhD. Yale has INSANE connections and Harvard and Yale have the same exact name recognition. Name recognition doesn’t really go far though when you consider the fact that there are tons of schools with the same recognition without the same quality of education.
You also shouldn’t create an opinion based on what you heard. So that’s stuff about “hearing” Harvard kids are snobby and “hearing” about a bad social life should be dismissed.
One thing that you didn’t acknowledge however is how drastically different their campuses are. Yale has a more closed and intimate campus whereas Harvard is sprawled across Cambridge and your campus is the city.
Given that my daughter just graduated from Yale with a B.S. in Astrophysics, I think you want to check your research. And who the heck cares what the Ph.D. is all about. You’re going for an undergrad.
Well, it’s pretty ridiculous to say that Harvard has a better reputation than Yale. I would say that, even internationally, the schools have around equal name recognition. Sure Harvard might have a very, very small iota of name recognition greater than that of Yale, but it’s a negligible amount of difference, and certainly a bad basis for making a college decision. And the fact that you talk about how, because of Harvard’s bad social life, you can sneak off to MIT’s parties is pretty laughable. You think MIT has very many better parties than Harvard? I could see Boston University, maybe, but MIT is still bottom of the bucket social-wise.
It really doesn’t matter at that level whether you get your B.A./B.S. and Ph.D. from the same school, but that shouldn’t be a factor in your decision. I’ve known lots of people who spent 10 years at Harvard without adverse effect to their careers, though they were somewhat limited in their perspective. Apply to one SCEA and the other RD, and think about which one seems preferable. From what little you’ve discussed, a double major at Yale followed by a Ph.D. at Harvard sounds ideal, if you are fortunate and talented enough to be able to carve out that route for yourself.
I attended an info session at Harvard and have done a lot of online research and I’m fairly certain that you are pretty free at Harvard to decide what you want to major in. They don’t have ‘majors’ they have ‘concentrations.’ With that being said you can pursue joint concentrations, which is very similar to double majoring, or you can add a secondary concentration, which is like minoring. I don’t know the specifics of their astrophysics/astronomy/international relations concentrations, but in general it seems like once you get there they advise you on what you should concentrate in based on your goals. A LOT of people go into college thinking they know what they want to do but change their minds, so I would say choose the school where you feel most at home and then go from there. College is a time to figure yourself out, you don’t need to be thinking about your phd in astrophysics yet.
As I mentioned above, Yale DOES have an Astrophysics major. My daughter class of 2015 was able to choose whether her major was “Astronomy and Physics” or “Astrophysics”. She now has a BS in Astrophysics. She had more or less a Physics major, with her Physics electives in the Astrophysics area. Now if you want to say that isn’t an Astrophysics major, that’s kind of silly, as most Astrophysics programs are heavily cross-listed between the two disciplines.
Requirements of the B.S. degree program for the Class of 2017 and subsequent classes The B.S. degree program in Astrophysics is designed to provide a strong foundation in astrophysics for students interested in graduate study or a career in astronomy, physics, or a related science.
Thank you to everyone who answered! You guys brought up a bunch of things I hadn’t even considered, and sorry if some of the things I said were silly, I’m still trying to figure out how all of this works. I still have time to decide, so I think I’ll wait to do more research before I make a final decision.
I don’t know the answer to this, but I’d think that an important factor would be the availability of undergrad research and how supportive they are of undergrads doing research. I’ve heard, though not from a super reliable source, the Princeton has more undergrad research opportunities than Harvard, because Princeton has more undergrads in relation to grads. I don’t know the undergrad:grad ratio at Yale.
In physics/astrophysics, the research you do as an undergrad is going to affect your grad school applications.
Princeton was actually really high on my list because I know how many astrophysics opportunities they have, but when I visited I realized I would be absolutely miserable there… I’m a city girl, and princeton is way too small, I wouldn’t be able to stand it
Well, I would Google about undergrad research at both places in general and in your likely majors. Then, I’d probably email people in admissions and the physics department to ask what % of physics/astrophysics majors do research and what year they are likely to be able to start.
P.S. People above are correct about it being inadvisable for long-term employment reasons to get your BS and PhD in physics/astrophysics at the same university, even if it’s a good one.