I never imagined that I would be put in this situation of deciding between these three amazing schools, so now I am having a very difficult time with choosing where to enroll. I would appreciate any advice or help you can provide! Here is a little about me:
I plan to double major in political science and international relations. I have a large interest in studying abroad, but not much of a budget to do this on my own. I am interested in studying sustainable food politics, as well. The campus culture is very important to me, I prefer the students to be collaborative rather than (overly) competitive and am not interested in Greek life at this time. Student happiness is also important to me, which is why I am majorly concerned about the idea of attending Harvard (The Cult of Yale article is rather telling, in my opinion.) I would like the program I am in to be strong and encourage independent thought (nothing that stream-lines students like pre-professional programs tend to). Finally, I want there to be a focus on undergrad programs on campus!
Side-note~ Vegan-friendliness would be a perk!
Does this sound like any particular school? Are there any of these campuses that definitely do/don’t embody these characteristics?
There are several Harvard and Stanford threads on this forum. I felt Yale’s residential college system was superior to the housing system at Staford, personally. Yale’s RCs sear in loyalty. There’s no counterpart at Stanford. But that’s only one person’s view.
Since you are not asking about CS/engineering where there is a clear leader…when it comes to studying political science/international relations…all three schools are equally strong and you can’t go wrong with any one of them. This is where “fit” will come in…and only you can answer that…
I can’t really talk about Harvard or Stanford, but I can tell you all about my experience at Yale!
Studying abroad. Super easy! I think somewhere on the order of 70% of Yalies study abroad or have some "international experience" (i.e. working abroad) during their four years here. We have great study abroad advising and fantastic funding. At the Office of Career Services, there is an entire section called the CIPE (Center for International Professional Experience). They can tell you all about studying, working, and living abroad. There are a ton of great Yale programs all around the world. One common option in studying abroad during the summer (because no one wants to be away from the best place on earth for a whole semester). There are dozens of Yale programs (Yale-in-London, Yale Summer Session in Paris, Bilbao, Lima, Peru, Prague, St. Petersburg, Rio de Janiero, Santiago, Quito, Berlin, and a bunch of other places). These programs are really affordable because we have something called the International Summer Award. For one summer during your time at Yale, you can get up to $10,000 to study or work abroad. The exact amount depends on how much financial aid you get during the year. I studied abroad last summer and paid for almost nothing except plane tickets. If you can't find a Yale program that looks good to you, you can also do a program through a different university and Yale makes it super easy to transfer credits. And studying abroad during the school year is definitely an option! I have a friend who spent last semester in Barcelona and another friend who is studying in South Africa, Vietnam, and Chile this semester. And again, credits are super easy to transfer.
Sustainable food. You'll LOVE the Yale Farm. A couple of blocks away from campus, we have an all-organic farm. In the fall, they invite Yale students to come and pick fruits and vegetables on Friday afternoons and then they feed you the most delicious, fresh, homemade pizza. YUM! They also employ several students who advocate for eating sustainable foods around campus. I can't remember what the position is called, but it pays $12.50/hour (on-campus minimum wage is $12/hour). You should definitely check out the website for the Yale Sustainable Food Project http://sustainablefood.yale.edu/
I'm sure you'd also really enjoy Harvest, the pre-orientation program which takes groups of freshmen to different local farms to live, work, and eat for a few days before Camp Yale starts in the fall. I have a ton of friends who did it and LOVED it. (Their phrase is even "Lux et Verduras"...haha get it... like Lux et Veritas, but with vegetables!)
Everyone here is SUPER collaborative. I have honestly never felt like I was competing with anyone for anything. I think Yalies understand that we are greater than the sum of our parts and we can be great if we work together, rather than just good if it's every-man-for-himself. One night last semester, I was struggling through three problem sets, and I had THREE friends stay up helping me until THREE in the MORNING. They could have gone home and gone to bed, and let me fail those assignments, but they didn't. They saw a friend in need and didn't think twice. That's just one story, but I think it's really indicative of the campus atmosphere overall.
Also, I'm vegetarian, and there are always plenty of vegetarian/vegan food options. I also have some really strange allergies (e.g. eggplant :( ) and so I'm probably the pickiest eater I know, but I always find something. There's a made-to-order grill in every dining hall where you can get a veggie burger. I really appreciate it that they have a special veggie section of the grill and use separate utensils for flipping the veggie burgers (because I'm your typical neurotic vegetarian who doesn't want my food to touch anything that's touched meat). Also, dining hall managers are super helpful and you can always talk to them about having veggie options!
I think I covered most things in your original post, but let me know if you have any other questions!
“Student happiness is also important to me, which is why I am majorly concerned about the idea of attending Harvard (The Cult of Yale article is rather telling, in my opinion.)”
I mean, something like 50% of Yale students seek treatment for mental health reasons during their time at Yale, sooo…
Now, this is probably not endemic to Yale, and more just representative of the highstrung types who get into these schools. But I would caution you against making surface-level conclusions about student happiness at the three schools.
I think Bulldog2017 gave you a great answer. I have 30+ experience with Yale (graduate in 1982, and freshman mom). Everything Bulldog said is true. Yale is a very happy, collaborative place. Is it nirvana? No. Do kids there have problems? Yes, plenty. Like someone said upstream, many of these problems are going to be found at all the top schools because for the most part they all have the same kind of high strung, super motivated students that came to the school with some issues. Going from being a big fish in a small pond to a minnow in the ocean with a bunch of other minnows, however, smart, can be disconcerting. But Yale takes care of its “minnows” very well.
If poli sci and international studies are your intended major, you may want to be at one of the choices on the East Coast so you can be closer to New York and Washington DC for internships.
My D went to Yale thinking she would take a semester to study abroad but quickly came to the realization that she did not want to spend one of her precious 8 semesters somewhere else, hence the summer option.
She is going to study German this summer - 1 month at Yale and 1 month in Berlin. A healthy chunk paid for by Yale and hopefully more by grants. She is also vegan, but had to move to being vegetarian while on campus cause the vegan offerings were getting kind of redundant. But it can definitely be done. There is also Claire’s Cornucopia which is a vegan bistro which is a stone’s throw from Old Campus.
DS came home at the first break with some cockamamie theory about how he was only 1/23 or something done with Yale, which reassured him that it wasn’t going to fly by.
I recently relayed this tale to someone in a private message, but I thought I’d repeat it here.
True story: Three kids from New York City go to the same elementary school together. All three go to different middle schools, high schools, and colleges. One goes to UMich, one goes to Vanderbilt and one goes to Harvard. All three graduate last year and go to work for Bloomberg LP in the SAME department. Now, after a year of working at Bloomberg, which kid gets the promotion and the top job?
Answer: The kid from UMich got the promotion because she was more personable, friendly and clients liked dealing with her better. So, in the end, I think it matters LESS where you graduate from — especially if the choices are Yale, Harvard and Stanford — and MORE about your people skills and what your life experience (as a 22 year old) brings to a job.
Bottom line, pick the school where your gut tells you to go!
“Student happiness is also important to me, which is why I am majorly concerned about the idea of attending Harvard”
It makes sense to prioritize happiness. But to give serious weight to a man-bites-dog article from an entertainment magazine that quoted about .01% of the then Harvard population and that came out when you were 5 is not a good application of the critical thinking skills that put you into this great position. How many magazine articles showing student joy at Harvard have come out since 2003? Have you verified that no campus publication at Stanford or Yale has printed an admiring article about a competitor or a critique of its own culture? Don’t you need that information before you can decide whether something is “telling”?
Are you going to Visitas? See for yourself where you feel most at home. There’s no bad choice here – even if your #1 priority is student happiness.
@Hanna - totally agree that she should go to Visitas and BullDog Days. She will be able to get a better sense from that. I know many happy Harvard students though I still question their choice.
@Hanna I would like you to consider that I have done my research. I would not be applying to these colleges if I did not know anything about them.
I would hardly consider the Harvard Crimson an entertainment magazine. I am weighing this article based on its popularity among the college-aged student crowd today, despite it being written in 2003, which would seem to say that it still holds some truth. Something can be ¨telling¨ in itself without needing to be validated through other colleges’ self-critiques. The vibe I got on campus very much matched what was described in the article, whether for better or worse for any given student.
While I would love to research every praise or critique of each of these campuses as you suggested, my heavy course load, budding nonprofit, student organizations, musical rehearsals, and social life are what I am choosing to prioritize because my decision will likely be based on where I best fit as a person.
Your comments did not come across as friendly by any means and hope you had another intention when writing your response. I would like to remind you that I am merely a seventeen year old seeking out an education.
@AppAnxiety This is a very difficult decision, and in the end you’ll probably have to prioritize the various positives that all three of these schools offer. Everyone says that you can’t make a “wrong choice,” and that’s true—but it’s also true that one school may be more likely to have more of what you’re looking for out of a college education that the others. We’ve had to deal with the exact same decision, and it’s been extremely difficult. The admitted students events may not be necessary if you’ve already visited the campuses enough and are very familiar with the schools’ attributes. Keep in mind everything you know and have read or heard about the schools; ask yourself which one will best meet your educational, extracurricular, and social needs; and then try to decide and move forward without regret for the road not taken. Good luck!
If you have an opportunity to visit the schools now that you are admitted, I would do that. Schools look so much different when you are past the stress of applying and admissions. Once admitted, you can actually look around at students that are there and see if you see any that you feel you will “belong to”. Also, current students are also more forthcoming with admitted students than applicants - why waste your time when chances are so low they will be admitted. Once you’re in, its a totally different story.
My D had been to Yale many times, but had the best time at Bull Dog days because it was then “her school” too.
But again, if this is not possible, where ever choose, you will ultimately be very happy and a couple of weeks into the school year you will wonder why you ever contemplated going to the other two.
