Yale v. Stanford v. USC Scholar

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
1

<p>My S got into Yale with no financial aid and Stanford with 6k of aid. He is also admitted to USC with a Mork Family Scholarship (Full Tuition + 5k stipend/yr) and University Scholarship ($2K/yr). He wants to be an East Asian Studies major and plans on getting a Ph.D. With the Ph.D, he is considering being a professor or working abroad in East Asia for the government or an NGO.</p>

<p>Yale or Stanford would require $35K-40K per year of loans for a possible total 4 year debt of $140K+. USC would still require costs of room and board of approximately $15k per year, but no debt would be required. Yale or Stanford would require S to work during the school year and would require family sacrifices to meet the non-loaned portions. </p>

<p>Yale is my S's dream school and seems like a perfect fit. He knows less about Stanford because we only briefly toured a few years ago, but knows its great reputation. He was impressed with USC, but has some concern with the overall academic seriousness of students (partially based on students he met at Explore USC). He is a very serious and driven student that wants to take advantage of every available opportunity.</p>

<p>From our perspective, Yale and Stanford, as two of the top universities in the world academically, are a notch above USC's academics. USC is an excellent academic school, but it is not Yale or Stanford. If money was not the issue, he would go to Yale.</p>

<p>Our income has only recently risen to a range at or near the income cutoff for financial aid (some calculators showed a decent amount of aid, some no aid) and because of prior financial obligations for various business ventures, savings has been depleted to eliminate any savings for college. In essence, we would need to find the $60K per year for Yale or Stanford through decreases in expenses, increases in income, and loans. We also have another child that will be starting college in 2015.</p>

<p>We would like some input on the following issues:</p>

<p>-Is the difference in the Yale/Stanford education v. USC education worth the financial impact of loans, etc.?
-What will be the impact of a Yale/Stanford degree over a USC degree be, if any, for getting into a top grad school?
-Will the contacts gained at Yale/Stanford be substantially better than at USC, if at all?
-Does being a scholarship recipient at USC counter some of our perceived advantages of a Yale/Stanford degree?
-Is there any way to decrease the cost of the going to Yale or Stanford?</p>

<p>Any other input would be appreciated. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>That is a really tough decision. On the one hand it’s tough to not go to a dream school, on the other hand 140k is a LOT of money. From an academic perspective, I do not think it would make too much of a difference on his grad school choice or career where he goes for undergrad, especially since the scholarship will tend to overcome some of the perceived quality difference. He can probably go to grad school/PhD to Stanford/Yale and still become a sought-after professor at a top school. I think the decision needs to be based on his dreams/aspirations of where he wants to be as opposed to academic opportunities, since he will get the same top-notch education at USC as at Yale/Stanford and will have the same opportunities for grad school out of USC (as long as he keeps his academics up).</p>

3

<p>USC. It has much to offer and is a top school! No one will look down on him for it. Yale and Stanford are not worth the debt, in my opinion. He will likely go just as far in life having graduated from USC as Yale and Stanford. </p>

<p>I’m just a bit confused because Yale and Stanford are very different, and Yale and USC even more so. It would take an intereting student to have applied to both unless these three have the top east asian studies programs.</p>

4

<p>USC, definitely. So much cheaper, no loans (!), and although it has less of a name than Stanford or Yale, it has a great reputation (I first heard of it years ago, and I’m on the east coast!)</p>

5

<p>USC. It simply is not worth it. I agree with the above posters.</p>

6

<p>140k is a lot of debt for his intended major. </p>

<p>While I also feel that USC is not at the same academic level as Y/S, real or perceived, he should be able to compete for top grad programs if he does well in USC.</p>

7

<p>If it’s really important to him to go to Yale ,try again. Your situation sounds a lot like ours was last year. We were encouraged by an alum to write a supplementary explanation of our circumstances.
It worked-we went from receiving almost nothing to being responsible for only $7000 a year, and honestly he has to work to help with even that amount.
That being said, there’s lots to love about USC. I’d definitely nudge my kid in that direction. Maybe Yale or Stanford for graduate school? Don’t know where you live, but it’s killing us transporting our boy home for breaks.
Hope this doesn’t complicate things. We were hanging on long after it should have been over. There’s a lot to be said for knowing where you’re going to be next fall!</p>

8

<p>I agree – before making a decision, try to appeal the financial aid. Yale and Stanford are often very willing to increase their aid packages given unusual circumstances like yours.</p>

9

<p>Without a doubt go for Yale! Worth the debt to attend IMO. Particularly in his field of study.</p>

10

<p>It might be worth the 140k differential if you could afford it, but to take that amount in UG loans? No.</p>

<p>Appealing is not going to hurt, but is unlikely to help since USC is a merit award.</p>

11

<p>Of course it’s not worth going into massive debt over -but maybe it’s worth a call or note.
Hey it worked for us. We didn’t have a great back up like USC, but we did have merit offers.
Yale’s needs- blind- thingy turned out to be the best deal out there-once we explained.</p>

12

<p>I went to Stanford and several of my kids went to USC. USC provides special services for Mork Scholars. As an entering freshman, your student can take Thematic Option, a liberal arts honors program for 200 entering freshmen which attracts very academically oriented freshmen with a variety of majors. There are many new, outstanding faculty at USC due to recent recruitment efforts. I feel that Stanford and Yale may be better for Ph.D. study. It will be so much easier saving that undergrad money for grad school, using the scholarship and avoiding the burden of paying tuitiion out of pocket for undergrad. Visiting campuses and asking questions will certainly provide the answers you are looking for.</p>

13

<p>That’s a tough decision.
First of all, only you know how much debt you are comfortable with and can carry and cover.
But I’ll add my 2 cents.</p>

<p>Most folks on cc feel like the LAST degree is the most important in terms of the college that you went to. So if you are fairly certain that S wants to get a PhD, then it’s better to save your debt to spend on an expensive grad school. </p>

<p>We live in SoCal so can give you perspective on USC and Stanford.
Yes, USC is lower academically than Stanford and Yale. However, I know many kids who were offered trustee and presidential awards at USC and these kids also usually got acceptances to HYPS, so by attending USC as a Mork, your S will definitely be with the same level of brain trusts. Some of the kids picked HYPS, some of the kids picked USC.</p>

<p>You said that your S is a driven and serious student. There is a cultural difference in CA that your S will see at Stanford and USC vs Yale. In CA, kids and adults work hard to appear very chill and relaxed. They may be working like crazy and stressed inside, but uncool to show this to the outside. Non-CA people at Stanford call this the “duck syndrome,” cool at the top of the water, but underneath, paddling like crazy. Yes, the “regular” student at USC will not be at the same academic level as your S, but the Mork Scholars will be at the same level and will be equally driven and serious, but it will not appear that way on the surface until your S gets to know these kids better. That’s the nature of the CA student, so tell him not to judge too quickly.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about the East Asia studies programs at the 3 schools, but CA has ton of Asians compared with most other parts of the country with lots of connections to Asia since it’s close by; there may be networking connections related to this.</p>

14

<p>another consideration is having that much debt hanging over you may influence your career choices in ways that might be limiting. If you have that debt hanging over you , you may think twice about certain career options instead of following your heart.</p>

15

<p>I’m a huge supporter of Yale, but even I say this is too much debt compared to a really good offer at a really good school. You could try the financial aid appeal at Yale and Stanford.</p>

16

<p>My son knows a few cases like his currently at Yale. One students mom was recently divorced and had to sell some property. This showed up as a huge financial gain for that year. It really was a one time windfall and her only retirement savings. We had to send a small business-farm supplement.I wrote an explanatory letter-even down to the fact that we were broke from years of private schools and that a few years at Yale costs about the same as market value of our home. I also told them straight out that any debt accrued would be on my son, and as much as I admired Yale, I’d have to advise him against attending under these circumstances. Yup-straddling that line between honest humility and groveling.
Our friend the alum contended that people from most of the country were ‘too polite’ [she meant wimpy] and people from the north-east tend to stand up themselves more insistently-thus Yale is used to people demanding a second, more personalized look at their situation.
They SAY they want you to graduate debt free. We’ll see how aid holds up this year.
Have to say mt kid loves it there!</p>

17

<p>If you want to do East Asian Studies, the Light Fellowship at Yale is unparalleled. Can easily be worth $60k during your time at Yale.</p>

18

<p>Update:
Thank you to everyone for their input. We did request a review of the FA from both Yale and Stanford. Yale reviewed their FA and offered a very small 4 figure amount and Stanford upped their FA offer by a small amount. These revisions were small enough that the overall financial picture from my initial post has not significantly changed.</p>

<p>In response to the Light Fellowship at Yale, we are aware of it, but does anyone know how hard it is to get? Also, if S did a year abroad through Light Fellowship would he receive the equivalent of one year of Yale credits? What we wonder is if the Light Fellowship would essentially eliminate one year of Yale tuition and lower the overall cost.</p>

<p>Thanks for any additional input.</p>

19

<p>Re: Light Fellowship. They award about 140 a year, and it is possible to win a fellowship multiple times (keeping in mind the size of the EAS dept, 140 is a very high number). The acceptance rate is not public info so I don’t feel comfortable sharing it here, but basically anyone who is competent and persistent will get one (or multiple). </p>

<p>Light Fellowship studies can count up to 9 credits-- essentially a full year at Yale for free.</p>

<p>PM me if you have any other questions-- I’ve committed to the class of 2017 and I’m planning to do some East Asian language/history/literature work at Yale.</p>

20

<p>Do PhD candidates of the caliber that can get into Yale and Stanford as an undergraduate pay for their PhD programs? I’ve heard it said that pre-professional students should save UG dollars to pay for professional school but I’m not sure this follows in this case. Whether the family wants to take on any debt when there is an alternative is a personal decision.</p>