Yield

<p>I asked you to explain what feminine values are and why they lead boys to drop out of school. Would you care to answer that question?</p>

<p>[just back from a few days fishing in the mountains]</p>

<p>Byerly, thanks for the link to the PC admissions report. Can't believe that was made public! I, too, suspect a version of that discussion goes on everywhere.</p>

<p>If you're out there, and you don't mind my asking you to do my research for me, but you're so good at it, do you know the yield figures of let's say Harvard, Stanford, Yale and Amherst 5, 10, and 20 years ago?</p>

<p>The grade schools value socialization skills over all. </p>

<p>They don't like kids who talk loudly, bounce around and are generally "high maintence." Virtually all of such kids are male. The teachers (almost all of whom are female) tell the boys to sit down and shut up, and, consciously or not, give them lower grades - primarily because they are not as "nice" and well behaved as the girls.</p>

<p>For similar reasons, girls have far higher GPAs in high school, even though boys do better on the SATs.</p>

<p>It is shocking that males are - to a growing extent - underrepresented in the college population, at both the elite level and at major state universities.</p>

<p>Harvard should throw $50 million at the problem, IMHO. Don't you agree, Hanna?</p>

<p>I could probably dig out the Ivy + Stanford numbers, but not Amherst that far back.</p>

<p>Great report. Surprisingly analytical.</p>

<p>For the Stats Hounds...</p>

<p>When did those merit aid powerhouses start buying SAT strength in such numbers? 1970? 1980?</p>

<p>If those powerhouse merit aid schools were taken out of the equation, would the rankings look similar to rankings in the 60s? 50s?</p>

<p>Love to see the UVA stats for male/female....</p>

<p>Is there a way to measure the impact of coed GS/HS education on rates of enrollment in tertiary education?</p>

<p>Idler:</p>

<p>Can't help you with Amherst, but these two links give yield data for Swarthmore going back to 1970, the first in graph form, the second in numeric:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/AdmitYieldRatesChart.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/AdmitYieldRatesChart.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/Admissions.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/Admissions.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I believe that Swarthmore's and Amherst's stats track pretty closely over the years, especially in the years since Amherst became co-ed. Very similar size, SAT scores, diversity, etc.</p>

<p>You can get Yale's data back to 1979 here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/oir/book_numbers_updated/D7_Summary_YC_Admissions_1979_2001.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/oir/book_numbers_updated/D7_Summary_YC_Admissions_1979_2001.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you want to go further back, I believe you can find the data here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/oir/book_numbers_original/b.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/oir/book_numbers_original/b.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you want to check other schools, this page will link you to the institutional research departments at most of the COFHE schools, which is where this sort of statistical data is usually found:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/cofhe.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/cofhe.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Hanna - I don't feel like hijacking this thread in order to discuss the problems of boys in American education and the effect the overwhelming presence of female values in our classrooms has had inaggravating the problem. Suffice it to say Byerly's points are well taken.</p>

<p>This chart is better for Yale, and its up-to-date, too:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/oir/open/pdf_public/W033_Fresh_Admissions.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/oir/open/pdf_public/W033_Fresh_Admissions.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It is not only class rooms. Many large companies have a component in their interview process called 'relationship'. If one looks at the typeof questions and examples they are looking for, one can conclude that it is inherently biased against male species.</p>

<p>When S was in preschool, we were called in by the teacher. Does S have hearing problem, we were asked? Does anyone else in your family have a hearing problem? No, we assured the teacher, but if you think there is a problem we will get him tested. Worried, we rushed home to make the necessary appointments right away.</p>

<p>Turned out that S's hearing was just fine, thank you. But the teacher was the mother of one quiet, well behaved, shy little girl, and the teacher came from a rather quiet family. She simply wasn't used to noisy and rambunctous little boys!</p>

<p>wish....that is exactly what happened to us. Untill we had S tested for hearing, we were nervous wreck. His problem? He loved to play and just ignored Preschool teacher's verbal instructions.</p>

<p>Sorry for the momentary hijack, Byerly, but have to tell this story. We had S1 extensively tested for hearing after a friend of mine's S was diagnosed with partial deafness. It was the perfect answer to why he never heard his teacher or me. I'll never forget the day when they came out with the results. He had excellent hearing, one of the best they had ever tested, something that was confirmed later when he took up music--perfect natural pitch. Also the ability to tune out voice frequency of female adults, like his teachers and me.</p>

<p>One more little hijack - in our case, S just liked to use a loud voice. Much as we would love to be more decorous, and often succeed, we do talk pretty loudly in some circumstances, and have been known to shout to eachother, up and down the steps and from room to room. The teacher thought he was talking loudly because that was the only way he could hear himself! The projecting voice problem can become as asset - D found that when she did a lot of drama growing up, and now that she is teaching HS, the kids can always hear her!</p>