<p>We have been slowly visiting schools with our junior D2. As I have mentioned she is a top student who is quiet and athletic. She has focused on small LACs close to home and indicated that she was very comfortable at these schools. This past weekend she visited a mid-sized OOS state school
and loved it. It helped that they loved her and she was offered a very attractive athletic scholarship at this D1 school. My dilemma...I really don't think it is a very good academic fit for her. I haven't said a word yet. The campus is beautiful, the coach great, she knows several players who will be there, but she would definitely be at the high end of accepted students. There is no honors program and the school is 4th tier LAC. I am torn as I am absorbing what transpired this weekend. I just have a bad feeling about this but I keep reminding myself that this is her choice. I just am uneasy since she has to make up her mind within the next few weeks and committ or the offer is off the table. Tough decision for a 16 yr. old to make! Never saw this coming! My plan is to keep my feelings as neutral as possible and sit down and present pros and cons and let her think about it. Any other suggestions from you wise CC parents? Am I being an academic snob???
sigh....</p>
<p>Being above the average doesn't mean that there isn't a place for a student. If it's a decent-sized school, there will also be other kids there above the average. Being challenged by a college has more to do with the student's efforts, not the school's.</p>
<p>I would worry more about "the offer being off the table". As a Junior, she can't make any binding commitments with the NCAA. All she can do right now is a verbal. If the coach is telling you otherwise, he's not telling the truth. Then again, I think a lot of what the NCAA does is quite dirty.</p>
<p>Whenever I see, "Am I a..." thread, I always want to post, "Yes. Yes, you are." :D (Sorry; that's been pent up a long long long time!)</p>
<p>But no, I don't think you are. She may have greater opportunities there to get more involved academically because she has less competition; maybe she'd like being "top dog" in the academic pool. But if you think she may find the academics not as challenging as she likes, it might be a good idea to have her shadow a current freshman or sophomore, so that she can attend classes to see what they're like. You might not have to say anything!</p>
<p>I missed that she is a junior. Is she skipping her senior year in HS?</p>
<p>Thanks for the chuckle Owlice!!! I need one this am! No about skipping ...they just want you to committ or verbal early. Many of her team mates already have.</p>
<p>Son...yep, we know the NCAA rules. He wants a verbal or the offer goes to #2 recruit.</p>
<p>So, that's not binding from your end, right? I guess you could be mercenary about it and say yes, then pull out if you change your mind...</p>
<p>You should be careful when dealing with coaches, they have their own game they play that is not necessarily in your D2's best interest. My D went through this process for a Div 1 school this year. Some coaches were true to their word, others were not. You can get left hanging. And if she is that good, there are probably some good LAC's that may also be Div 1 in her sport. You would appear to have time. Also, I would agree with Son of Opie on the NCAA thing. Depending on the sport, he should not be approaching her with this sort of thing. I would play it safe. Somewhere on the Brown website it point out that the college decision by itself is tough, the athletic and college decision is basically exponentially more complex. Good luck.</p>
<p>My D was in the same academic position her freshman year at a state school. COming from a top-ranked private high school, I was worried that she would not be challenged. Ironically, the professors really latched onto her as a result of her abilities and paid extra attention to her and encouraged her greatly. I think they were thrilled to have a student who could actually challenge their teaching skills. So, you never know!</p>
<p>I agree that a student can get a fantastic education at a school where he or she is way at the top. One thing to consider in your situation, however, is the academic tone of the team. If the members of the team are all flocking to the easiest majors and are not all that academically inclined, it may be hard for your D to shine the way she otherwise might academically.</p>
<p>Having taught at a college that was ranked 3rd tier during part of my time teaching there, I would be concerned about a student who goes to a 4th tier despite having stats that would be commensurate with a first tier (not sure, however, whether your D's stats are similar to first tier students').</p>
<p>In my classes, for instance, I had to teach basic grammar such as the difference between sentences and phrases. This was extremely boring for high stat students who had been lured to the college by merit aid. While my assignments were considered difficult by most students whom I taught, the merit-aid recipients breezed through them, even easily doing optional additions that I included to make the assignments more challenging for the brightest students</p>
<p>S (high score, mediocre h.s. grades) student is attending a 2nd tier LAC majoring in what I majored in in a good grad school doctoral program. Some of his freshmen assignments in his major were similar to things that I did in grad school. I doubt, though, that such assignments would be given at a 4th tier.</p>
<p>So, my thoughts are that you have good reason to be concerned about the quality of education at a 4th tier LAC.</p>
<p>Anything you can do to gain time and a chance for her to continue to "shop" is probably important. I wonder if the simple thrill of being courted doesn't seriously skew the adolescent brain's capacity to consider options. At sixteen (and even later) they can be SO influenced by things that will not matter (even to them--in six months)--so it seems developmentally hazardous to make such a committment so early. And being recruited and verbally committing REALLY ties to you to the team group, their activities and them as a social bond, especially in a big school. If she is shy, the idea of instant belonging and a built in social life may seem great now--but she should do some serious consideration before jumping into the first good thing that comes along. </p>
<p>At the least, she needs to look at some other "bigger" schools to be sure it is size that appeals, not just the encouragement of the coach...</p>
<p>I don't think the rankings are so important, but issues like class size, faculty engagement with students, opportunities for undergrad research, campus community and residential life would be the things I would focus on...There are some small LACs with Division I teams and great esprit and athletic facilities too-</p>
<p>The only D-I public LAC that I can think of is a long way from No. Minnesota! If that's what we're discussing, I worked at a competitor institution at one time, and I would agree that your D would be underchallenged. You might schedule some visits on your own to schools on a similar athletic level that would offer a more intellectual environment and see if your D can pick up on some of the cultural cues there. That's a little difficult to do over the summer however.</p>
<p>Please, please get your child in touch with other older kids who have done college athletics, especially D1 college athletics, before she gets all starry eyed and picks a school based on playing a sport.
College athletics is a huge commitiment, even for an excellent student, and the implications of that should be taken into account - perhaps she will be better off in D3 or maybe being at an academically less challenging school will make easier - then the question why do sports comes up.</p>
<p>Several kids at my childrens' small private school go off every year to do sports - some have good outcomes, others less so. The impact of D1 athletics, even in "minor" sports, though, is tremendous, and she needs to think through that carefully before she committs to a particular school</p>
<p>NorthMinnesota,
I would also be concerned about this kind of academic situation for your D. What if, perish the thought, she wasn't able to participate in her sport (injury-it happens) and she was left with academics that were less than stellar? If she is a top student, she will be valued at other institutions which can give her the combination of athletics with the academic challenge she needs.</p>
<p>This is a tricky one, isn't it? I would think about your daughter's long term goals. Is she going to make a living in athletics? If not, what college would best prepare her to reach her goals? Maybe an athletic scholarship would pay her way to get there, and that would be a consideration. If one coach is urging her to verbally commit, doesn't that mean there will probably be others? Does the OOS state school have an honors college? Could she test or place out of the more basic classes if she settles on the OOS school? </p>
<p>I think 16 is far too young to feel this pressure.</p>
<p>I went to a large state university that I swear would accept almost anyone. My ACT score was WAY above their average. But almost all of my courses were challenging. Is your daughter taking AP classes or can she place out of the "Intro" /101 classes? That is where she might encounter the students who might be at a lower level.</p>
<p>Yes, you can get a good education at a tier 4 LAC... just like you can at almost any decent american college/university. </p>
<p>BUT. </p>
<p>There is a difference in the caliber of students in a top-ranked LAC and those below. And that difference will be especially apparent on an athletic team. I would say to really think about the kinds of kids your D likes to hang out with -- if they're mostly smart, ambitious academic kids -- and she is also like that -- I'd look for a school likely to offer a more intellectual overall atmosphere.</p>
<p>Your daughter will likely have a range of choices and should be wary of committing in a hurry under pressure, to a possibly less than ideal academic match.</p>
<p>My S. was in exactly the same position his junior year of high school, recruited by a lower tier school and pressured to commit. At the time, he was swept away by all the attention from the team and coach. Later he recognized that many of those same kids would not even be at the school by the time he arrived and more importantly to him, he later found out that the coach was leaving. The athletic scholarship initially appeared enticing, until we discovered it was likely the school would award more dollars for his academic scholarship. After overnight visits at several schools, that included attending classes, he chose the best academic fit and reasonable athletic fit. At this NESCAC DIII school his coaches support academics first and if anything he is pressured to keep academics as his main focus.
Due to an injury he has not been able to compete this entire year and next year is in question. He often mentions how difficult the situation would be had he gone with the better athletic fit!</p>
<p>Great thoughts,all! Thanks to all who responded!
Not worried about the team...they have won conference academic awards. I guess I'm not used to these feelings of unease...must be the baby thinking about flying the coop! As far as the general school atmosphere...students with her GPA and ACT have over 99% admittance rate, no essay will be required and her AP scores will give her at least 36 credits and remove many gen ed requirements. D2 is possibly interested in med school or some health care related career. The $$$ saved and less time in school would be a plus down the road. I will get her back on campus and attend a class. She is young for her grade and does have a hard time making ANY decision. Ha!</p>
<p>cangel...thanks for the concern! We are aware of athletic pitfalls...D1 plays a college sport, also. We just felt at ease with her decision. The school fit was apparent right from the beginning.</p>
<p>Funny how different things are this time around!</p>