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academies run pretty much the same way i'm going to assume that it applies to all of them.
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<p>Don't assume.</p>
<p>br2011:</p>
<p>USNA69 is promulgating opinions based upon more than thirty five years since his ascendance to the hights of a Comissioned Naval Officer. As a former NCO we didn't need an act of Congress to make us a Gentleman but it seems to have served him well. I don't know how many years he has as a B&G. We can all agree to disagree but lighten up shavetail.</p>
<p>I talk to my Plebe at least 3 or 4 times a week. We have detailed discussions, which I will not share here except to say that much of what I have read in this thread is not accurate. From our discussions I feel everything is being handled EXACTLY as the superior officers want it to be. If anyone thinks these Plebes are being handed a cake walk and the upper class men are neglecting their duties, well you have to think what you want to think. I can see and hear the training in my Plebe, from what I can tell, and I know him well, he is being trained and groomed immaculately.</p>
<p>I assure you that class distinction is in place. Having a few "corporal" billets as a youngster was awesome because I felt part of the company decision making process and didn't feel the weight of the upper-class, senior enlisted, or company officer that much.</p>
<p>No that I'm a 2/c, a squad leader, and a member of battalion staff, more attention and expectation seems to be put on us. I find myself subservient to the 1/c, which is how it should be. Since I have to enforce policy that comes directly from the 1/c leadership in the company, the amount of rope given to us is shorter than expected.</p>
<p>In short, there is definitely a four class system. Firsties clearly run the show while the plebes are at the bottom, that is obvious to everyone.</p>
<p>The ambiguity or confusion seems to lie with the 2/c and 3/c. Youngsters are the least monitored class of all because they aren't plebes and they hold low-profile billets in the company. Now, 2/c are squad leaders, platoon sergeants, training sergeants, admin chiefs, drill sergeants, technology liasons, battalion investigative officers, other battalion, regimental, and brigade positions, etc...you get the picture. 2/c are actually in charge of things but are limited in the ways that they can innovate or modify policy that is passed down.</p>
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<p>Gotamidn, you missed my point entirely. We all know the plebes are being well "taken care of".</p>
<p>GoNavyXC, I am not sure it was your intent but your post agrees totally with what I said. </p>
<p>You agree that it is not plebes and everyone else and that there is a class distinction in place, as there should be. </p>
<p>You agree with me that the responsibility between classes seems well delineated.</p>
<p>You agree with me that authority is not commensurate with responsibility, that you are not given enough "rope" to do your job. Good leadership demands authority and responsibility go hand in hand. You gotta have the "rope".</p>
<p>And lastly, you agree that the Youngsters are maybe falling between the cracks. You didn't elaborate but you also kinda put the Second Class in that statement also. Apparently the Firsties in khakis is working which is fantastic. Sounds like the only thing they might need to learn is to give you Second Class a little more authority to do the job for which you are responsible.</p>
<p>My gut feeling is that all rules and regulations are not being enforced equitably. CurrentMid, who has just posted above, has actually, on several occasions, espoused on the unenforcability of rules and regulations and perhaps that some are made to be broken (my wording, not CurrentMid's). You perhaps have reached to the heart of the issue and hit the 'nail on it's head'. For an organization to run effectively, one has to be given the authority to enforce those rules, and if one feels they are not pertinent, have the wherewithal to change them.</p>
<p>Great post. Now go do something about it.</p>
<p>I don't like to be argumentative on message boards, it is non-productive. I really don't think I missed the point of this and many other threads here on this board that continue imply and at some points outright state that things are not being "run" right at the Academy, that the underclassmen are not being properly trained and carrying out their duties, that there is no longer a tight ship, on and on and on. That is not fair to the thousands of young men and women working their guts out at the Academy today. Look, I am thick skinned and this is not coming from an "over protective" parent of a mid. I think I have as much information as anyone on this board as to what the experience of the plebes are in at least in one of the companies and I reiterate that my plebe is rated constantly, taught his professional information many, many times a day, has many upperclassmen helping and guiding him with much concern and dedication. He praises their efforts. I have no doubt whatsoever that todays Academy is not the same Academy of 50, 30, 20, or even 10 years ago, things change, institutions evolve, and as a matter of fact it is not always for the worse many times for the better. I could not be more satisfied with the situation my Mid is in. He is happy, challenged and working his butt off, just as it should be.</p>
<p>Gotamidin, you present a quandary. The gist of your post is that one should not be critical that things are not "'run' right". However, your previous posts were very critical of the way things were 'run' due to the fact that you did not receive a perceived Plebe Summer phone call. You can't have it both ways. Additionally, please go back and read this thread. The administration of plebes has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. It has absolutely nothing to do with plebes and everything to do with upperclassmen. If you somehow feel your remarks are pertinent, please go back and reevaluate.</p>
<p>With all due respect, I think you present a quandary, you are mostly negative, seem to consider yourself the ombudsman of this forum and frankly from the facts I have are somewhat out of touch (I know your loyal army here will come in to defend you). It is so childish of you to cite my being upset over missing a phone call from my son, to the overall program at the academy, a rather weak and lame argument, but not unexpected from one who apparently has nothing better to do than hang out here and robustly drip your opinions on all that will listen. I'm done, you get the last word, this is ridiculous.</p>
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<p>I guess you are ignoring my observations on this very thread.</p>
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I firmly believe that each class gets better, more prepared to meet the fleet.
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<p>You are indeed a quandry.</p>
<p>The phrase about the time at USNA being broken into thirds, if taken in the context in which it is presented in the Parents' Survival Guide, has absolutely nothing to do with the level of training or responsibility of each of the four classes. It refers to the idea that, as one passes through the rigors of USNA, it will FEEL like three different eras.</p>
<p>Now, could we return to the question raised by the OP? I have recently been in the presence of several Youngsters who have stated different requirements (distance they can travel from USNA, etc.) than the requirements for my Plebe. I don't want to be in a situation during a visit in which I unknowingly aid or abet any rule bending or breaking. </p>
<p>Specifically:
- I know Plebes are limited to a 22 nm radius from the Yard, except on leave. What is the limit for Youngsters? Does it vary by company?
- What are the requirements for Youngsters to wear uniforms? I know that Plebes must be in official regulation garments at all times when not in leave status.</p>
<p>2012mom - it is my understanding that this year, the radius has been changed to 30 nautical miles for town liberty. this limit is for plebes and upperclass and would include DC and Baltimore. i don't know if the various companies can change that limit.
Youngsters must wear the uniform of the day while on Yard or town Liberty, and in my son's company (perhaps all companies?) youngsters may not possess civvies. That is to say that they may not wear civvies on Liberty or have them in their rooms at Bancroft. They must also wear their uniforms while traveling to their Leave destinations and returning from Leave. While away on Leave, they may wear civvies.
1/C and 2/C have more freedoms with uniforms vs. civvies.</p>