<p>What are the differences in the privileges of plebes, youngsters, 2/c, and 1/c?</p>
<p>First, some caveats: My list only includes the most important things, AND some things can change with a change in administration. The Class of 2008 knows all about that.</p>
<p>Plebes:
-Must wear uniform of the day at all times when within 25 mile radius of USNA (and may not keep civvies in their rooms)
-Are not allowed to go outside the designated radius (~25 miles, but can change slightly)
-Cannot operate a car unless on leave (i.e. Christmas holidays)
-Cannot consume alcoholic beverages (even if over 21) unless on leave
-Have “town” liberty only on Saturday after Last Military Obligation (LMO). On the day of a home football game, this is ~4 hours. On Sundays, Plebes must remain on the Yard. Exception: on holiday (3 day) weekends, Plebes have Town liberty both Saturday and Sunday, “Yard liberty” on Monday.
-Do not rate weekend liberty except as declared by the Dant/Supe for a special situation
(IOW, liberty is generally daytime only, not over night)
-Must “chop,” do “chow calls,” must do “come arounds” to show they have learned “Plebe knowledge,” must “square” their meals and their corners. If you don’t know those terms, you will before the end of I-day+1.</p>
<p>Youngsters:
-Must wear uniform of the day at all times when within 25 mile radius of USNA
-Cannot operate a car unless on leave (i.e. Christmas holidays)
-Have town liberty both Saturday and Sunday (and Monday if it’s a holiday weekend)
-Do rate weekend liberty. This year they had 2 weekends/semester, but those are in addition to any granted by the Dant/Supe, and having top grades can earn more. Weekends begin after Last Military Obligation (LMO) on Saturday</p>
<p>2nd class:
-Can operate a car, but not on the Yard. There is parking available near NMCMS
-They rate more weekends than Youngsters, and weekends begin on Friday evening
-Uniforms only required when performing military obligations (attending class, training, etc)</p>
<p>Firsties:
-Can operate a car (NOT a motorcycle) on the Yard, and can obtain parking on the Yard
-They rate more weekends than 2nd Class, and weekends begin earlier on Friday evening</p>
<p>I don’t they’ve demanded “square” meals at the Naval Academy in a very long time. Even when I was a Plebe in the summer of 1975, they had long since stopped that kind of nonsense.</p>
<p>But we were “squaring” corners and keeping our “eyes in the boat” until we climbed Herndon.</p>
<p>My son squared his meals the first time he ate with us at PPW. It was hilarious :)</p>
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<p>It depends. Can you rush for 7.3 yards per carry? ;)</p>
<p>
This is a free country. Therefore, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, no matter how misinformed they might be.</p>
<p>^^^
Did the pot smoking midshipman average less than 7.3 yards per carry?</p>
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<p>Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>How’s the glass house house coming along? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
I don’t think USNA has ever required plebes to “square” their meals.</p>
<p>Cannot 2c only wear civies to and from liberty, leave, and/or weekends?</p>
<p>Maybe it’s just a Plebe Summer thing, but the Plebes definitely had to square their meals then (last summer)</p>
<p>After plebe summer, companies do away w/ the squaring meals nonsense</p>
<p>Well, I know it’s old stuff, but I might quibble about squaring meals being “nonsense.”</p>
<p>The proof is in, dare I say it, the pudding. And your nonsense has been the military’s butter on its bread. And extrapolating a bit …'twould seem the evidence is in and clear. It works. Just openly, honestly observe the consistent results of the mightiest, most productive military force in the world’s history.</p>
<p>And it all starts w/ shaved noggins and squaring meals. </p>
<p>I’d say suggesting this is “nonsense” is ignorant, youthful arrogance, the type of which too often leads to life-preserving trouble. </p>
<p>Trust the powers that be. They may have to succumb to screwy politics and inadequate funding, but when it comes to transforming mediocrity into magnificense…Ask the Navy, Marines, Army. Even on occasion, maybe the Air Force. (altho there the more appropriate question might be …“a 3 iron or my driver?” :eek:</p>
<p>Whistle Pig said:
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<p>I think you might have misunderstood my characterization of squaring meals as “nonsense.” I’m all far the military-type of indoctrination that is typically employed at boot camps and during Plebe Summer.</p>
<p>Certain pressures have to be placed on the Plebes - in addition to meticulous unquestioning attention to a myriad of details. That is part of the process and it helps in expediting the transition from civilian to military.</p>
<p>But, over the years, the trend at the Naval Academy has been to direct that “pressure” and “attention” into more instructional areas.</p>
<p>I think they did away with squaring meals decades ago at the academy in favor of enforcing stringent eating manners. I.e. sit up straight … use only the last 3-inches of your chair … keep your eyes in the bottom … do not take too big of bites … don’t talk with food in your mouth … put down your utensil when being addressed … request permission to “shove off.”</p>
<p>It’s been decided that awkwardly squaring your meals does not really add to the already uncomfortable (by design) eating experience.</p>
<p>Even the rating of Plebes has trended in the more practical direction. In my day (and days prior), Plebes were subjected to a continuing barrage of trivial questions like:</p>
<p>Why didn’t you say sir? (to which you had to respond with a memorized, lengthy, tongue-twister)</p>
<p>Who was Moaning Maggie?</p>
<p>How’s the cow? </p>
<p>What time is it? </p>
<p>How many panes of glass are in the skylight in Memorial Hall?</p>
<hr>
<p>I believe many (if not all) of these are still in Reef Points, but they seldom get asked. In fact, historically, meals were the worst part of a Plebe’s day (as far as rates were concerned). That’s when you got the most severe grilling. You never went to a meal not knowing your rates cold. Not anymore. Now, for the most part, Plebes get to eat in relative peace. And they’re certainly not squaring their meals.</p>
<p>'79 grad</p>
<p>Uhg why are you guys always arguing on here. Squaring meals is BS by the way…</p>
<p>Anyways you will quare meals all of plebe summer without fail until plebe summer is over. As far as privlages go…Of note is that you’re not going home until thanksgiving, which may not sound like a big deal now but it will hurt…standby. The radius stuff…lets be honest we are not tracked by Navy spies (I dont think anyways…) or anything so pretty much dont be stupid about it and use your best judgement.</p>
<p>Using your judgement is true with a lot of the rules. Just be wise about it.</p>
<p>Sorry u wanted to know about upperclass too.</p>
<p>Nothing much changes youngster year except instead of only liberty on saturday - you now have liberty on sunday as well (that does not mean u can spend the night without using a rare “weekend” pass). And of course, no plebe junk such as pro quizzes, rates, and hell. Youngster year is more of a pergatory, or so I am told by the charming class of 2012. </p>
<p>2/C year is the big one. You can wear civvies, get a car, and are basically approaching the under the table infinite weekend overnight level.</p>
<p>1/C year you own everything, dont worry about it.</p>
<p>Im not gonna lie, it utterly sucks here - but it’s always been one of my goals to be here. Speaking as plebe with 7 weeks left, look into ROTC - your life will be simpler. Im not sure if my advice will change in a few years but thats definitely what I’d suggest now.</p>
<p>'13</p>
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<p>Zoob, the first time your cockpit looks like the Budweiser house Christmas decorations commercial and you lose it, you may have wished that you had been able to pay more “meticulous unquestioning attention to a myriad of details”. Historically, meals, as described by Memphis, were the source of one of the better attributes that separated USNA grads from all others.</p>
<p>In re squaring meals, do we have a semantics issue? Sitting rigidly on the front 2 inches of one’s chair, eyes “in the boat”, and chin rigged (tucked in) to the extent that one can hold a knife in the fold between chin and neck does not constitute squaring a meal. Squaring a meal describes the path of utensils either vertically or horizontally, and in a plane either parallel or perpendicular with the front of the body.</p>
<p>As mombee and Memphis have shared, and I attempted w/ obvious limited success/failure and/or persuasiveness …</p>
<p>The point is NOT squared away meals, in the literal sense. It’s developing unfettered conditioning and thinking in responding to a superior official. Of course, these things are “silly,” BS, nonsensical exercises, notably when taken out of the context of the learning and training process. And that’s fully part of that learning and training process. To follow orders when they make no apparent sense, and to learn how to do so under substantial pressure. But of themselves, there is no logic to why anyone should do these things …beyond, the boss told you to do them. Period. </p>
<p>One day, you’ll get it, even if you didn’t like it. Ever achieving the latter …now that would be totally illogical. While the tasks are totally mundane, inane …completing them is critical to the process. And learning to take one for the team …or for that matter, making sure the team doesn’t have to take one for you.</p>
<p>That said, if you choose not to buy into the learning theory, concepts, and experiential evidence that they seem to work more than not …you might want to try offering alternative solutions to your superiors. 
I’m sure they’ll enjoy knowing you’re concerns and testing your theories and learning exercises. :eek:</p>
<p>btw
While intelligence might be, wisdom is not inherited. It is often learned …from squaring away meals. Read how God imparts wisdom on history’s most prolific of figures. I think the Bible talks about squaring meals among the many amendments and addendums to the 10 Commandments. 
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<p>To expand on WP’s point, I like this quote from a story for middle-schoolers written about USNA over 100 years ago:</p>
<p>“I believe in hazing. [In the story, this is not barbaric hazing in our sense, but things that, I believe, would falling under ‘running plebes’] I believe in being forced to respect and obey my elders. I believe in a fellow having every grain of conceit driven out of him by heroic measures. And that’s hazing — long may the practice live and flourish!”</p>
<p>“Why, what good is hazing doing to you?” insisted Dalzell.</p>
<p>“It’s teaching me to submit and and to obey, and how to forget my own vanity before I am put in command of other men later on. Danny boy, do you suppose it has cost me no effort to keep my hands at my trouser-seams when I wanted to throw my fists out in front of me? Do you imagine I have just tamely submitted to a lot of abuse because my spirit was broken? Danny, I’m trying to tame my spirit, instead of letting it boss me! Many and many a time, when the youngsters have started to guy me unmercifully I’ve fairly ached to jump in and thrash 'em all. But, instead, I’ve tried to conquer myself!”</p>
<p>The point of squaring meals (or anything else mentioned) isn’t squaring meals.</p>