<p>It really bothers me whenever I see someone write how they have an "excellent" or "great" essay. Judging by everyone who has said that and then shown me their essays, both in school and on CC, most peoples' essays are not nearly as good as they think.</p>
<p>Don't be surprised when you get small envelopes from schools to which CCers have told you that you have a great chance at acceptance, because chances are, your essay isn't that great.</p>
<p>I agree. I have only seen two essays that I can actually say were excellent. And I have read a lot of essays both on CC and of my friends. yet everybody keeps thinking that their essays are good.</p>
<p>wuahahagagahhahahahhahaha.</p>
<p>I don't do essays on CC for the simple fact that I really can't judge. Who is really to say what the AdCom will think? There are some things that are obviously bad, but the good stuff is hard to judge.</p>
<p>I think people just say they are "good" so they don't have to read their whole essay.</p>
<p>Hey i think my essay is bad want to read it ?</p>
<p>Honestly ... an essay can serve one of many function. It can show academic passion, it can explain personal circumstances, or it can highlight personal qualities and extracurricular achievement. It completely depends on how it fits with the rest of the application. The only people who really know how essays work in the context of the application are admissions officers.</p>
<p>In many cases, even a very weak essay will not affect an admissions decision. And only rarely will even a brilliant essay tip a more marginal candidate into the admit pile. I think the most important thing is that your essay fits in with the rest of your file.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In the most recent admissions cycle at a famous Ivy League college across the Charles River from Boston, half of the essays went left unread.
[/quote]
<p>I think it's really stupid to assume that an essay spelled rejection or admission for candidates. In most cases, it hardly matters. The essay is also extremely vulnerable to the most wealthy participants having professional writing and editing done. The recommendations are far more important when it comes to exploring acadmic promise or personal virtue.</p>
<p>The essay can provide a tiny push or pull on very borderline cases, but otherwise, only a truly bad or vastly superior essay can change anything.</p>
<p>Joey</p>
<p>"I think it's really stupid to assume that an essay spelled rejection or admission for candidates. In most cases, it hardly matters."</p>
<p>But in some cases the essay is what made the difference between an admission and a rejection. I also have heard from adcoms about how some students who had extraordinary grades, scores and ECs were rejected because of essays that were very poorly written or that revealed major character flaws.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, few people posting on CC have any idea of what makes a good essay. I agree that most students who say they have written an "excellent" essay have no clue how to evaluate themselves.</p>
<p>I also look askance at students who say their recommendations are excellent. How would students know? Even if the students have seen the recommendations, they are unlikely to be familiar enough with college application essays to know what an excellent recommendation is.</p>
<p>In addition, adcoms may look askance at recommendations that make a student sound absolutely perfect. The adcom may find a recommendation more believable if it includes some indication that the student has something more to learn.</p>
<p>The places where essays in general count little are at numbers-driven colleges, which are probably the majority of public institutions. I saw an article earlier this year in which adcoms at a Florida public spent something like 7 minutes evaluating each application. Most of the time was spent crunching the numbers.</p>
<p>Hi, Northstarmom.</p>
<p>I was more referring to the concept that if a candidate with great scores/grades/ec's was rejected, it probably was not just because "your essay isn't that great." A "not that great" essay hardly puts a highly qualified candidate into the rejection pile. An essay that reveals "major character flaws" of course can put even the most qualified candidate's admission into question. But there's a difference between an essay that is merely average or even below average, and an essay that is rotten.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Meanwhile, few people posting on CC have any idea of what makes a good essay. I agree that most students who say they have written an "excellent" essay have no clue how to evaluate themselves.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course ... this I agree with. How can we possibly judge essays without an application to see it in the context of, and without even knowing what the admissions officers may be looking for in a particular candidate?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also look askance at students who say their recommendations are excellent. How would students know? Even if the students have seen the recommendations, they are unlikely to be familiar enough with college application essays to know what an excellent recommendation is.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here ... to be fair, it's not impossible to see what an excellent recommendation is. Any book written by a former admissions officer will show you some very good recommendations. A great recommendation uses specific anecdotes, shows your academic competency, shows that you love learning, and praises your class participation and written work. It will also distinguish you from other students who have taken the same class. Chuck Hughes said that a standard strong recommendation praised someone's academic prowess without actually exploring it. A truly outstanding recommendation will delve deeper, citing specifically how you think, and your best qualities.</p>
<p>Just as an example ... if someone says you are to the Calculus classroom what Derek Jeter is to the Yankees, that is extravagant praise. If your recommender uses the three D's to describe you (diligent, determined, disciplined), then that will ring a death knell to your application at the most highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that essays don't count at all, I'm just saying that unless a Siemen's Westinghouse finalist can't write, he's probably going to be accepted. I'm also saying that even if someone with a 2.0 writes a truly moving tribute to the six family members that have died over his high school career, he's getting denied. Now ... if someone in the ballpark writes along either of those lines of thought, yes, the essay will make a difference.</p>
<p>Just my thoughts on the matter.</p>
<p>Joey</p>
<p>"I'm also saying that even if someone with a 2.0 writes a truly moving tribute to the six family members that have died over his high school career, he's getting denied. Now ... if someone in the ballpark writes along either of those lines of thought, yes, the essay will make a difference."</p>
<p>Actually, the "let me tell you about the horrible tragedy that happened in my life" essay usually does not impress adcoms the way that many students here assume. Adcoms would rather read insightful essays about ordinary things.</p>
<p>"I was more referring to the concept that if a candidate with great scores/grades/ec's was rejected, it probably was not just because "your essay isn't that great." A "not that great" essay hardly puts a highly qualified candidate into the rejection pile. "</p>
<p>I disagree. There are a lot of outstanding applicants to the top universities who have similar grades, stats, curricula and ECs. An outstanding applicant with an outstanding essay would get the nod over the others.</p>
<p>NSM, do you think the essay about discrimination is good?</p>
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<blockquote> <p>In addition, adcoms may look askance at recommendations that make a student sound absolutely perfect. The adcom may find a recommendation more believable if it includes some indication that the student has something more to learn.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Just want to say that e.g. in my country it's common that recommendations are positive and w/o bad sides of applicant, so only details and outstanding traits in the recs have matter. And I don't think that the quality of recs (like appplicant's essay) should not have meaning - applicant is not guilty that his/her teacher is not perfect writer, that's why my point is that the details and accomplishment are meaningful, not the beauty of the text.</p>
<p>I agree w. Northstarmom. I mean, the lowest of the low applications get tossed into the auto reject pile, while the top of the top gets an auto accept, but it's the middle 85-90% of kids that should have good essays (which includes almost everyone here on CC). My rep told me that how much the essays matter is dependent on the school. For a more egg heady school, then the essay will no doubt matter less, however, for a more social/popularish school, then the essay will matter a lot. It all runs down to what kind of institution the school wants to be.</p>
<p>"For a more egg heady school, then the essay will no doubt matter less, however, for a more social/popularish school, then the essay will matter a lot."</p>
<p>I think it's the opposite. With few exceptions, the tougher the school is to get into, the more important the essay will be. That's also because the top schools - places like HPYS -- attract thousands more outstanding applicants than they have room for. The top schools also know that the majority of students whom they accept will glady accept their offers.</p>
<p>The top schools that are exceptions to this are CalTech and Cooper Union, which are extremely numbers-driven. That's how a few years ago, 100% of CalTech's freshman class had scored an 800 on one of the math SATIIs. HPYS could do that, too, but choose to put more weight on other factors.</p>
<p>Many of the schools that are truly known for excellence of their social lives tend to be public universities, and those mainly select applicants by stats. Examples include Florida public universities.</p>
<p>NSM, could it be possible that Caltech's applicant pool itself has more 800 scorers on Math SAT IIs than applicants to other schools? Caltech's class size is relatively small to begin with, so it's not hard to believe that <em>by chance</em> all freshman scored an 800 on the IIC (which is only the 90th percentile--that shows how common that score is to begin with).</p>
<p>"NSM, could it be possible that Caltech's applicant pool itself has more 800 scorers on Math SAT IIs than applicants to other schools? Caltech's class size is relatively small to begin with, so it's not hard to believe that <em>by chance</em> all freshman scored an 800 on the IIC (which is only the 90th percentile--that shows how common that score is to begin with)."</p>
<p>Harvard could have a freshman class of students scoring 800 on the math part of the SAT I. I have never seen SAT II scores for Harvard students, but I imagine that students doing so well on the SAT I would do well on the math SAT IIs.</p>
<p>For instance, from Bloomberg news service, April 1, 2004:</p>
<p>"April 1 (Bloomberg) -- Women make up more than half of the students admitted to the freshman class of Harvard University this year, the first time they have outnumbered men, school officials said. </p>
<p>The admitted class of 2008 includes 1,016 women and 1,013 men, a group chosen from 19,750 applicants, the second-most competitive year ever, said William Fitzsimmons, dean of admissions and financial aid. About 1,650 freshmen are expected to enroll, he said. ...
Harvard had its most competitive year ever in 2003, when a record 20,986 applicants vied for the class of 2007. This year is the second-most selective, with 19,750 applicants, including 2,800 valedictorians and 2,700 who scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT college entrance exams. Another 2,000 students scored a perfect 800 on the verbal section, Fitzsimmons said. "</p>
<p>"Harvard could have a freshman class of students scoring 800 on the math part of the SAT I. I have never seen SAT II scores for Harvard students, but I imagine that students doing so well on the SAT I would do well on the math SAT IIs."</p>
<p>That's not the point. The point is that Caltech's applicant pool has a proportionately larger amount of people who score 800 on Math SAT IIs, especially since the applicant pool is probably more self-selective than Harvard's and also proportionately more math/science-inclined than Harvard's. Add to that the fact that Math IIC 800s are pretty common to begin with, and you have why during one year Caltech's freshmen all have 800 on that test--not because they place <em>that</em> much emphasis on test scores, but because so many applicants have that score, it happened by chance.</p>
<p>My essay rocked :-P</p>
<p>Northstarmom nailed this one. It amazes me that so many children on theis site proclaim gret recs and essays. Then you start reading....As for whether an essay on discrimination is good, the point is a thoughtful essay on anything can be good. A less than thoughtful essay on the best topic is bad. The thing I see most often is over doing it. Trying to plug in vocabulary words you deem to be impressive. The essays that will bring you alive to the admissions office will be heartfelt. They will, in plain language, tell why you have the stuff a school should want. Why you're just not another member of the pack. An essay simplictically talking about a black overcoming discrimination (don't get offended, I'm black) will fly only if it's context is beyond the obvious. Another essay about how immigration effected you won't fly unless you have a very different story than all the rest of the immigrants applying. Think about it, at highly competitive schools such as the ones most here want to go to, your story must be truly unique.</p>
<p>Anybody else with deja vu? This was a major thread on the old CC a few months back, and the same views about the importance of an essay and how CC'ers view their essays are in this one.</p>
<p>an asian stuggling with poetry and reading emily dickenson will?</p>