It was widely known that Prince Charles was admitted to Cambridge despite having marks which would have kept a non-royal/non-aristocratic member out when he applied in the mid '60s. A news report I read stated that when Prince William was applying to colleges, he announced he would only attend the university from which he earned a place through his academic merits.
Prince William opted to attend St. Andrews despite widespread reports his academic marks were much stronger than his father’s back when he was applying to colleges.
I also have a couple of friends who worked closely/dated British aristocrats admitted under similar circumstances as Prince Charles around the same time Prince William was applying to college.
This is how it works in Canada too for the most part. There is some variability in costs, but primarily that has more to do with major and less to do with the school itself. Some provinces subsidize their students more than others, but the fees are more or less in the same ball park. The majority of students apply directly to their major from high school and admittance is based primarily on marks.
In Canada, undergraduate education, regardless of school attended, is not viewed to be all that prestigious in general but what prestige a school does have is determined by how competitive it is to gain admission which is primarily marks based, and not so much based on rankings (though they tend to go hand in hand). What generates more prestige is admittance to highly selective programs regardless of the prestige the school itself is viewed have. Competition to get into some of these top programs has become so fierce that these programs have gone to a more holistic admittance process with a supplemental application and for some, even an interview. The additional screening components don’t come into play however until you’ve met the minimum marks cut offs, and they tend to be very, very high. Computer Science and Engineering at Waterloo and U of T, Commerce at Western, U of T, Queens, and York, & Medical Sciences and Arts & Sciences at McMaster are some of the most highly sought after programs. The more they are seen to be prestigious, the higher their demand, and the higher the marks cut offs, leading to increased prestige. It’s a vicious cycle.
Most schools admit direct to your major in year one. Cut off marks for admission depend on demand. The higher the demand the higher the marks necessary to gain admittance so the marks required for acceptance fluctuate slightly year to year. Some schools like McMaster however have made the move to a more general first year. Students still have to apply to a faculty even though they don’t declare a major, and there are core course requirements that are prerequisites for admittance to the major in 2nd year. So while you don’t have to declare say biology over chemistry, you do have to declare sciences over arts and you have to take the required first year courses for your intended major. Students aren’t so much undecided as undeclared. They’ve decided on a major, they just haven’t declared it yet. The reason for this isn’t to give students more time to explore their interests however, it’s an additional screening that levels the playing field between high school applicants since Canadian universities don’t use standardized testing for admittance. It actually serves to make entrance to the major even more stringent because minimum GPAs are often required for admittance to in demand majors like computer science and engineering. Admissions to the faculty of Arts or Social Sciences is by contrast much easier to obtain though they may still have minimum GPA requirements, just lower ones. Having everyone apply to their major using their first year university marks rather than their high school marks makes it easier to determine who is truly suited to the most rigorous fields of study as most students see significant drops in their marks in first year versus high school.
My kids’ high school seems to send around three kids to Canadian schools, one or two to UK schools and one or two to Korean schools every year.
My D visited the University of British Columbia and loved the campus (it was gorgeous). It’s a large school, but the campus was very self-contained and fairly compact so it didn’t feel that big. It was difficult to figure out admissions chances, but ultimately, decided she didn’t want to be quite THAT far away so she didn’t apply.
@gwnorth I think this simple statement goes a long way in explaining the “difficulties” I experienced with many posters here on CC: They want to, and wants me to, focus on the school; but I choose to focus on the major. I suspect @VickiSoCal was hinting at the same and I have no doubt it is a better matrix.
The largest gap in quality between general admission to a university and a specific program must be York and Schulich. Hard to believe they exist on the same campus. Ditto to Osgoode Hall.
It is a bit of a misnomer to speak of “Oxbridge admissions” since undergraduate admissions are controlled by the colleges. The university establishes ‘matriculation’ requirements but these are floors. Hence, while some colleges may like ‘legacies’, other colleges (Magdalen at Oxford, Kings at Cambridge) actually appear to give children of older members a harder time.
In a similar vein, while many UK universities claim they only consider ‘objective’ information like examination results, this isn’t true. ‘Contextual’ information is important as is evidence of independent thinking and scholarship etc.
It is well known that Prince William was interested in Cambridge but the message was passed that he was not academically competitive (Trinity College’s head performed the task). Tony Blair’s son applied to Oxford but failed to get the required A-level results and so his offer wasn’t confirmed. He wound up going to Bristol. Prince Harry didn’t bother applying anywhere, instead going the military route.
@exlibris97: Yes, Oxbridge admissions is by the colleges, though in at least some courses (I believe physics and math at Cam and/or Oxford), the faculty try to make sure there is no variation of standards across the colleges.
And yes, more than marks are considered (especially by Oxbridge), though the key point is that the evaluation is being done by faculty, not adcoms, so they would naturally be most interested in academic potential and in any case, for a full-pay International (like an American), if you meet the requirement for marks at any UK uni outside of Oxbridge and LSE, you’re likely in.
That makes admissions to most UK Unis much more certain than admissions to any elite in the US (for an American).
Yes this is the thing international students need know about applying to universities in Canada. For the most part students apply from high school for admission to a specific major. Acceptance is determined by demand so more in demand majors have more stringent requirements. Admission averages for students can vary widely between faculties at the same school though those who attract the strongest students to their in demand majors also tend to attract high performing students in their other faculties as well. While admission averages to the less in demand majors, like those in Arts and Social Sciences (it’s all about STEM here at the moment) will be lower by virtue of demand, they will still be higher than at other schools, increasing the reputation of the university over all. This is one reason why in general U of T is not viewed to be that prestigious at the undergraduate level, because outside of Commerce, Engineering, and Computer Science, admission to the other faculties is not that competitive. Their first year retention rate is pretty high (91.7) but their over all graduation rate isn’t (79.1), showing that they weed out a lot of students along the way. Schools that tend to attract students with higher stats to all their faculties are the ones perceived to be more prestigious. It’s all about the grades.
I doubt it considering there’s a wide variation in admission standards even for US/international students. For most recent US undergrad applicants I knew of, it was easier to gain admission to St. Andrews or UCL than it was to Oxbridge or LSE.
Also, since the UK reclassified many polytechnics(a.k.a. Higher vocational institutes) as universities in the last 20-30 years, the variability in admission standards across UK universities has greatly increased.
Quite ironic considering Cambridge’s illustrious Trinity College admitted his father with far less impressive A-Level stats than Prince William.
To clarify things, he didn’t enlist(Not usually done in royal/aristocratic circles). Instead, he applied and was accepted as a “non-graduate” officer cadet at RMA Sandhurst which made him part of the approximately 20% of incoming cadets who arrive with only A-Levels rather than a university degree.
Yes, the UK is one of the few societies in which its armed forces does not mandate a university degree to enter or graduate with a commission as a military officer.
@cobrat: I find that it is usually enlightening to read a phrase completely. Especially before commenting.
Here’s what I wrote:
“. . . for a full-pay International (like an American), if you meet the requirement for marks at any UK uni outside of Oxbridge and LSE, you’re likely in.”
Note the term “outside of”.
And yes, admissions standards vary greatly among UK unis, but that is reflected by the minimum marks that different programs at different unis require.
@PurpleTitan The University of Toronto has a 79.1% 6 year graduation rate compared to the University of Michigan’s 91% graduation rate. University of Wisconsin’s rate is 85.2 %. That is not surprising given Toronto’s lower admissions standards.
That’s my understanding, too. The University of Toronto has a policy of relatively lax admissions standards and willingness to let students fail. I am not certain how exactly that plays out among its various campuses, however. My impression is that the main campus is a lot like, say, Wisconsin.
Cambridge accepted Prince Charles with two A Levels at grades B and C (usually students enter with at least 3 A Level grades) and Prince Edward got in with CDD at A Level.
Let’s not pretend that Cambridge look only at grades.
Well Princess Beatrice seems to be the brain of the crew 2 A*, and 2 A is pretty respectable.
As with elite US schools as pointed out above, the situation for legacies/celebrities is different now than it used to be. I’m quite sure Malia for example had qualifications that surpassed GW Bush’s and that put her in Ivy striking distance and the celeb/legacy factor just helped rather than letting her in without qualifications to begin with.