Admission Process in Philips Andover

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
1

<p>From the Phillipian the school newspaper, the dean of Admission office is stating the admission process like below,</p>

<hr>

<p>"A faculty member of the admission committee and the applicant’s interviewer first read the application. Each fills out a form, giving an academic vote, personal vote, and action vote to the candidate, on the familiar scale of 1 to 6.</p>

<p>The personal vote indicates whether the applicant is a good fit for the school, while the action vote indicates how strongly the reviewer feels about admitting the candidate.</p>

<p>After recently working with renowned psychologist Robert Sternberg, additional votes are given for creative skills, practical skills, whether a student is able to organize themselves independently at school, and ethical reasoning, whether a student makes good decisions and sees the difference between right and wrong.</p>

<p>The folder is then passed to the applicant’s designated class officer, who will read and recommend a decision after summarizing the comments of the previous two readers to the dean, either Fried or William Leahy, Senior Associate Dean of Admissions. The dean makes the final decision after reading.</p>

<h2>Fried, however, looks over the applications of admitted students one last time before personally signing their acceptance letters and occasionally makes a few, rare changes in decision.</h2>

<p>Summary,
1. 4 people to review the application package (Faculty member, Interviewer, Class Officer, Fried or William) and to be signed by Fred
2. Evaluation from Faculty Member and Interviewer
- Academic Vote, Personal Vote, Action Vote, Additional Vote (Scale of 1 - 6)
3. Class Officer to read and recommend a decision after summarizing of previous two readers.
4. The dean makes final decision. (Either Fred or William)</p>

<h1>5. Final decision to be signed by Fred</h1>

<p>The process seems to me very clear but I don't know how they get evaluation from off-campus interviewer since they normally do not read the application package before the interview. For the evaluation, it seems to me that all the individual vote has same weight. This makes uncertainty for parent to estimating the chance of acceptance of our kids. We can expect Academic Vote will be mainly focused on score or numbers such as GPA/ Class Rank, SSAT or PSAT and so on. How about personal vote? How about action vote? How about additional vote? What's the cut-off score? Highest votes will be 24. (6 X 4 vote)
Are there anybody familiar with admission process? It'll be interesting if we can share our experience on admission process. Good Luck to everybody!</p>

2

<p>Sounds so straightforward and orderly doesn’t it? BUT THEN:</p>

<p>The Varsity Coaches appear at the door, so do the long time legacies and the big donors, along with parents who have siblings attending. Then they have to assign a certain percentage of seats for international students and a certain percentage of seats for URM’s. Then they have to makes sure that all or most of the 50 states are represented and a good number of countries. Almost all other schools also have to factor in financial aid considerations. So really we are back to the “black box” model.</p>

1 Like
3

<p>[No</a> Table Big Enough | The Dean?s Journal](<a href=“Private Site”>Private Site)</p>

<p>

I think this Dean’s Journal article will help you to understand the process better. The Dean’s Journal is very helpful–each month’s entries cover issues of interest for that month. I recommend reading older entries, not just the new entries. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m a parent, but I don’t think the academic vote is that cut and dried. Applicants to Andover submit a graded essay as well. I’d expect teacher recommendations to cover academic issues such as attitude and work ethic. Extracurriculars could make a difference too–for example, if a student did well in a local computer programming contest outside of school, it could influence the academic vote.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Again, I’m a parent, but it looks to me like a carefully constructed chain of command. By the time the deans read the applications, the other committee members have given an opinion on each application. In my opinion, the deans may overturn the other members’ judgement in exceptional cases, but not frequently. On the other hand, the deans do bear the ultimate responsibility in putting together the class, so a dean’s decision would carry the most weight. By the time the deans get the files, the committee has collectively recommended a possible group of students, and the deans decide.</p>

4

<p>I think, before the application reading starts, they’d allocate at least ball park numbers to spots for domestic & international, boarding & day, and boys & girls etc., and to target at admitting the allocated number of students in each category. Of course, there will be “ties”, “hard cases” or even a few “reserved spots” at the end of the process…I know I am totally speculating but it sounds reasonable to me. ;)</p>

5

<p>As I read through this, I can’t help but imagine an Andover AO reading it and thinking, “warmer, warmer…cold! Cold! Now you’re getting warmer…”</p>

<p>But of course I know that they are FAR too busy for any kind of recreational lurking this time of year. ;)</p>

1 Like
6

<p>I agree with the opinions above. There could be exceptional cases and it could be read from the student profiles. For the additional vote inspired by Dr. Sternberg, it will be drawn drom the short and long essay. Yale and Tufs also follow the same methodology of Dr. Sternberg for additional criteria. I am curious how admission officers could extract those two skills, creative and practical, from the essays. I am pretty sure that this unique method will be not any more unique in the future because applicants will find the best way to answer correctly in their essays. Even with this special assessment, GPA and Scores are the most important roles to get a ticket to the schools and we know Yale and Tuft’s scores for the admitted students. There are so much efforts must be behind the school grade and scores. We cannot look down these by amplifying other factors.</p>

7

<p>I completely disagree that scores and gpa are the most important things. First off, scores will only get you so far - looked at. They are probably of the bottom half of importance. GPA is highly important. But please remember that the school is building a coherent community. They dont want people that they perceive from their interviews are somewhat problematic and wont get along with other students. They want kids that are smart AND nice, honest, etc. Also, recommendations from teachers are highly important - a student can be a genius from here to Sunday, but if teachers perceive that student to be somewhat “off” they will be frank in their assessment.</p>

1 Like
8

<p>mhmm is right. </p>

<p>It’s more subjective art than quantitative process. Once you weed out those who are clearly not going to be able to keep up academically, the sheer number of good applicants is still high.</p>

<p>I think people can drive themselves crazy trying to figure out the “formula” and the “procedure” when the reality is that it’s not that well defined. Adcoms put a basic description into the public arena to allay fears and demystify the process but just end up fueling more speculation.</p>

<p>There are no “percentage” of slots for specific groups such as URM’s and if another person says that I’ll scream loud enough to shut down this board. There are just flexible needs assessments as they try to balance the student body needs (ie. they don’t want 100% flute players if they have an orchestra). A student who qualifies one year, might not make the cut if they had applied in a different years. </p>

<p>Watching my husband go through it now - it’s a grueling, imprecise, human process by people who truly look for - as mhmm said - kids they like enough to want to live with 24/7 and who will return as much through their contributions and interactions as they receive. In the fall I attended a special weekend at my D’s school where we reviewed theoretical applications and compared our votes to those of the Adcoms. It was very, very hard to narrow the list down.</p>

<p>Simple as that.</p>

<p>For those who get in - congratulations. For those who don’t find a spot - it’s not personal. There are too few slots for too many good kids and a lot of exhausted people sitting around a table trying to find the perfect balance between skills, interests, and personalities for an incoming class.</p>

1 Like
9

<p>Admittedly I am one of those who have tried to figure out the admission process. Not that it matters, but I find it intriguing. </p>

<p>I have to agree with Exie that it is a grueling, imprecise and human process. This reminds me a time when my company needed to hire a lot of people for a project, and I was the key person in the interview process. As I still remember vividly, despite my due diligence, some hires were fine but a few were just major bust. During one interview, a woman sitting cross the table, looked at me straight in the eyes and pledged that she was going to work her heart out to prove her worth. I was thinking “wow! never see people can be this determined”. Because of this impression, I decided to trust my gut and gave her the chance. But right from the get go, she brought everybody the living hell. Needless to say she was the first to let go. Today, she is still sitting/looking, fully exhausted her 99 month unemployment benefits, but I am sure she will get away with the same scam somewhere else sooner or later.</p>

<p>Along this line, I kind of doubt the true values of essays, recommendations, etc, as they can be manipulated to impress AOs other than tell the whole and true story. At the “Day with Andover”, Jane said one admitted kid’s mom wrote his essays. But despite all these, there is really no good alternative. GPA/SSAT seem objective, but when you consider GPA inflation in different schools and limits of SSAT or any standardized tests, you always end up with more questions than answers. So this is in deed an imprecise process full of hits and misses.</p>

<p>EXie wrote – “A student who qualifies one year, might not make the cut if they had applied in a different years”. Actually, I read an AO putting it even further – “If we have to go through the same process with the same pool, we may end up with a whole different incoming class”.</p>

10

<p>It is intriguing, but my interest is finally fading. My d will get in where she gets in. Things tend to work out and there’s nothing that I can do anyway. (I’ve come a long way since my first post in CC.) I don’t know if it’s easier this year because I did it last year, or if D is just easier than son. Probably a little bit of both. Either way, I’m looking forward to it all being over.</p>

11

<p>

I agree, and I think those students tend to be overwhelmed and unhappy in school. When you live in the community 24/7, it’s a lot harder to manipulate yourself to fit in the truth.</p>

<p>Exie, so do you not believe that URMs tend to get preferential treatment in admission? There seems to be a consensus that legacies, URMs, atheletes and first generation etc. do have a legup in admission to the most selective institutions. Of course, I don’t suppose they’d admit unqualified students just because of their URM background, but to reach a certain level of diversity, the school sometimes does have to purposefully pull a URM applicant from a smaller pool of qualified applicants of similar background. Yes, they are qualified, but because of the competitiveness of the process, some more qualified applicants from a different racial background may be turned down. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that being URM sometimes is like a talent of playing flute, which fulfills a school community’s needs. If so, then I agree.</p>

12

<p>I think mhmm and I have children in the same sort of school. I agree with him (her?) that recommendations are important. Recommendations are also not subject to manipulation, at least in the schools which take care to have good relations with elite high schools. If a pre-prep doesn’t tell “the whole and true story,” it can have immense consequences for the school down the road. It’s just not worth it to the pre-preps to mislead the elite high schools.</p>

<p>Public schools may be a different story. </p>

<p>The graded essays submitted are class work, not application essays. AOs also receive the SSAT essays, so they can compare the writing style and “voice.” If there’s a discrepancy, I’d assume they’ll call the teacher who graded the essay–not the parents. The graded essays allow the AOs to compare expectations across schools.</p>

13

<p>I think it has been reported here that legacies and sibs of current students have as high as a 50% chance of getting in.</p>

14

<p>For the short and long essay, it will be evaluated for the additional vote for creative and practical skill proposed by Dr. Sternberg. Yale and Tufs are practicing the same methology. For the acceptance rate on students have lagacies and sibs of current student, I am not sure they get in because of lagacy or their qualification. As far as I know, Andover is posting the estimated class rank 99th % and median SSAT 94th%.</p>

15

<p>First to enter college is an advantage?</p>

16

<p>I would say students will be more chance to survive or be successful in any college after graduating from Andover. I think they could have some disadvantage to enter college since their GPA could be lowered in Andover. Most student in Andover could be graduated from their schools as 99th % in class rank if they stay there but most likely not happens in Andover. As a parent, I want my D to learn more than school grade so that she could be more independant in the future.</p>

17

<p>DAndrew said

</p>

<p>That reminds me of the old “Bakke” case where he argued he was more qualified based solely on test scores. “More” qualified is subjective. Most people who think they are more qualified tend to want to frame the requirements in what ever areas that gives them an advantage. Higher grades may be from a less rigorous school. Higher scores may mean they study a lot but have little else going for them in terms of personality, interpersonal skills, or ancillary interests. Higher scores may mean naturally good on standardized tests. Or someone took the test for them. Lower scores may simply mean the student doesn’t do well under those circumstances but is otherwise gifted.</p>

<p>I remember interviewing a "well qualified student who bragged that he cracked books open the night before his tests and then aced them. His “lesser” qualified girlfriend (his words not mine) showed up several weeks later and although her grades were lower, she worked a job to help out her single mom, was president of SADD, and had a host of other assets the boyfriend didn’t. She got in. He didn’t. Both were white. I’m sure he thought she got his spot because she was a girl and she was lower middle class. I know she got in because she was marvelous and he was an arrogant jerk who didn’t know anything about the value of learning.</p>

<p>So why does no one ever consider that based on “sheer” numbers and percentages, it’s more likely a lesser qualified white kid bested a “more qualified” white kid because they were rural. Or midwestern. Or just a whole heck of a lot better fit for the school? Or is a rich kid whose parents are pledging to build a new science wing?</p>

<p>So I worry when people throw out the old tired “URM” phrase because it assumes that student “got someone’s spot.” Or is “less” qualified. Again - qualified by whose criteria since it’s the entire “package” that is scrutinized?</p>

<p>

. </p>

<p>Only if you consider that most URM’s are coming in with a host of other assets and the need for diversity “might” tip the scales, all things being equal. Being a URM is tougher because you have to jump through more hoops even when you’re “more” qualified. The assumptions, the whispers, the derision you meet at home just to apply and the odd looks you get when you show up at BS’s for interviews. </p>

<p>So being a URM was more of an impediment than an asset because as long as people assume color gets those kids in instead of their resume, they’re always going to be seen as “less than.”</p>

<p>I’m asking the white parents on this list to give it a rest. It’s really old. As old as using bogus consensus discussions from the board to validate a view they already hold. This one in particular cracks me up:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I mean - honestly. There’s a lot of “guessing” going on - or theories getting taking on a life of their own. Unless an Adcom reported it, the figure is not reliable.</p>

18

<p>Exie, thanks for your response. We are having a discussion about what role URM status may play in the admission to selective institutions only. I know you haven’t taken and hope you will not take it personally as the discussion goes on.</p>

<p>Conceptually, the preferential treament factor is the factor that by itself alone would put someone who have lesser than average qualification of a certain pool “win”. URM is merely one of those “non academic” factors including legacies, atheletes, first generation, etc… Because universities and BS are academic institutions in the first place, so they expect academic excellence and therefore acadmic achievements including test scores cannot be considered such “hooks”. By “more qualified”, no I don’t mean “more qualified test scores”, I mean an overall assessment of one’s academic preparation, talents and ways of other than increasing racial diversity to contribute to the school community. Suppose we take all white females, Asian males and AA males out from an admitted pool of an institution, you’d see a clear picture of what I mean. The schools are striving to diversify their student body, which many of us regardless our racial background appreciate, but saying URM status itself is not helping at all is not right.</p>

<p>I certainly understand “being a URM was more of an impediment than an asset”, and I understand that great URM students often have to overcome more difficulties and deserve more recognition. Moreover, the URM preferential treament doesn’t apply to each URM student. Some stand out on their own merit irrelevant to their racial background. And, racial diversity is not just bringing different skin colors to campus. They bring in differnt cultural heritage and life stories. Compared with legacy preferencial treatment, I appreciate URM PT more.</p>

19

<p>PA ADMISSIONS SEES A RISE IN PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS FOR 2011
BY ZOE CHAZEN</p>

<p>Phillips Academy’s Admission Office saw a record-breaking number of submissions from applicants around the world, as prospective students sent in their applications on Tuesday, February 1.</p>

<p>This year the number of preliminary applications increased by 20% with 3820 candidate profiles submitted, compared to 3184 submissions last year. According to Jane Fried, Dean of Admissions, on campus interviews also increased by 7.1% this year, and more than 1000 prospective students interviewed off campus with alumni.</p>

<p>Fried also said that domestic and international applications increased by 14.7% compared to last year.</p>

<p>There was a noticeable surge in the number of international applications from Canada, China and Kazakhstan. The admissions office also noted an increase in the number of domestic applications from Colorado, Georgia, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Wisconsin and Texas. From Texas alone, a record number of 94 students submitted applications.</p>

<p>The admission office saw the number of students applying for financial aid increase this year. According to James Ventre, Director of Financial Aid and Admission Operations, the projected financial aid budget for the 2011-2012 school year is $17,015,000.</p>

<p>He estimates that approximately 47% of the student body will be on financial aid next year. Currently, 45% of the student body is on financial aid, with 12% of the student body on full scholarship.</p>

<p>“The first thing we look at in the selection process is the student’s academic performance. Students have to be able to handle the workload at Andover and be able to do it in a way that they have time to enjoy other things on campus and not have to just study all the time. We want to see that the candidates are doing really well where they are and have room to do more,” said Fried.</p>

<p>Fried said the admissions office often looks for students with an interesting background or interest “to ensure that students are going to take advantage of the wealth of opportunities afforded here.”</p>

<p>She said, “We do what we call ‘people the program,’ meaning we try to select students who will contribute to the different programs and activities at Andover like the orchestra and athletic teams…art program[s] and…community service.”</p>

<p>Fried also said that the admission office looks for students who display kindness to others.</p>

<p>Fried said, “Plain and simple, we want nice kids. Some students who don’t get in are very bright, and sometimes people don’t understand that these students who weren’t accepted didn’t have that same sense of kindness and concern for others as students who got in. These qualities are so important in a dormitory or in a classroom here.”</p>

<p>In addition to these three main qualities, the admission team is looking for creative skills, practical skills, and ethical reasoning.</p>

<p>“Ethical reasoning is how a student analyzes his or her place in the world and how that student sets goals that try to support others or improve the world. Finding smart kids is easy. We are looking for students who have both the ability and the inclination to make a difference,” said Fried.</p>

<p>Fried also said that the essay section of the application helps admission officers gain a better understanding of a prospective student’s practical and creative skills.</p>

<p>“We have worked with Robert Sternberg, a psychologist who wrote Successful Intelligence, to create the essay topics every year. The essays are designed to elicit specific skills. The idea is that when an applicant looks at the list of questions, he or she is drawn to the essay that elicits his or her specific skill,” said Fried.</p>

<p>Admission decisions will be finalized on March 5th and decision letters will be sent out to applicants on March 10th. </p>

<p>Fried described the application process as a funnel. “We go from having 8,000 inquiries down to approximately 350 matriculants, kids who will actually come to Andover next year. When [admission officers] travel, we aren’t trying to increase the applicant pool. We are trying to make sure that students who are appropriate candidates know about Phillips Academy.”</p>

20

<p>Oh my. What does this mean though?

completed applications or what?</p>