Good colleges for (above?) average cool kids

Hi all, my daughter is currently a rising junior and wants to start researching colleges – and although I’m a teacher who has informally advised multiple students on the college application process, I’m finding it’s a little different trying to advise my own kid!

A little about her: A bright kid who thrives on intelligent conversation and wants to be around other bright kids (her #1 criteria). She was selected for our district’s IB program freshman year (they require all 4 years of IB coursework) but dropped it when she was accepted to a science-emphasis semester school out of state for spring semester last year. Unfortunately, she was sent home after only a short time there due to Covid-19, which was devastating since she felt she’d finally found her “fit” academically. Not a party kid and wants to attend college with others who are driven, collaborative, and down-to-Earth. Right now her interest is mostly directed toward LACs, or at least smaller schools, but she’s not thrilled about being in the middle of nowhere unless there is a very active Outdoor Club. Best case scenario in her point of view would probably be in/near a major city OR on either coast near the ocean.

Her school is a large urban public in flyover country with about 70% graduation rate, and outside of the IB program, not much attention gets paid to the AP/Honors track kids (of which there are very few). She is only able to take 3 APs junior year and could not fit a foreign language class into her schedule due to conflict with AP Calc. She is taking 6 credits of college Mandarin online this summer, but foreign language will be a weak point in her application since she won’t have 4 years of the same language. She very much wants to study abroad senior year (only affordable if she wins a scholarship), so if she does, she’ll graduate with only 3 total AP courses. If she completes senior year at her current school, she’ll probably be able to take 3-4 more, which will mostly exhaust the offerings at her school.

Her current interests are in the area of environmental/life sciences and international studies. Her dream career as of now would be something in diplomacy, working with foreign countries on environmental policy – but she’s also interested in pure research and/or public health. She has a 4.0 GPA and is ranked #1 in a class of 550+ (any kid with a 4.0 will be tied for #1, as her school doesn’t weight – this is usually about 4 kids each year). ACT taken sophomore year was 32, and she will probably take once more (although she’s not a fan of standardized tests).

Extracurriculars are fairly standard – Captain of Science Olympiad team, founder of a club that brings together native English speakers and refugee kids for cultural exchange and assimilation/tutoring assistance, founder of a club that brings after school science to elementary kids in her district, orchestra. She’s also worked fast food since she turned 15 (loves her job) and worked with Youth Conservation Corps last summer maintaining trails.

Hobbies are eclectic and include swimming (for exercise and fun, not competition), knitting, photography, and flying (currently working on a pilot’s license but progressing slowly due to COVID).

Suggestions? She’s got above average grades, decent test scores, average ECs, but below average course rigor, especially if she studies abroad – compounded with the fact that we’re middle class with an EFC of 22k and NPCs that generally give us anywhere in the 25k-35k range. We can probably stretch to afford 30k, but we do have kid #2 graduating only a year later, so money is a factor as well. Any ideas where she might be happy, and more importantly, where she has a shot?

Thanks in advance!

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Lol, this rings a bell for me!

Have a look at these threads:

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1658573-where-do-the-cool-kids-go-to-college-p1.html

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1878059-truthful-advice-about-getting-into-top-colleges-for-your-average-excellent-student-p1.html

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2188340-the-original-average-excellent-student-graduates-today-p1.html

@Lindagaf Thanks! Will check them out.

The 1st school that popped into my head is Macalester. Urban LAC with strong international studies, Kofi Annan was a graduate. I think your daughter’s experiences would make her a very strong applicant and the meet full need.

Other thought is Kalamazoo. Take a look at their K plan. Also think she would be a strong candidate for merit aid.

“A bright kid who thrives on intelligent conversation and wants to be around other bright kids”

University is likely to be a big positive step for her. She sounds like someone I know who also found university to be a big positive step compared to high school.

“Right now her interest is mostly directed toward LACs”

One daughter was also interested in LACs and smaller schools, and had about the same GPA. We are however from the northeast. The NPCs for us were rather intimidating at the top LACs in New England. We found affordable small universities in Canada. I am thinking that the NPCs at the top New England LACs might be more hopeful in your case. The small universities in eastern Canada would probably fit your budget also (roughly US$30,000 for an international student without aid, but some limited merit aid is possible).

The top New England LACs (Bowdoin, Amherst College, Wellesley, …) would be IMHO realistic reaches. The small universities in Eastern Canada are all test optional and all admit mostly based on GPA, and an unweighted 4.0 would make all of them safeties.

However, there are some good LACs in the midwest also. I am sure that you know them much better than I do.

Based on her academic interests (and some of her other criteria), consider:

Dickinson
Haverford
Bryn Mawr
Colorado College

Agree that Macalaster might be a good fit.

Not a LAC but good college town and strong in Environmental is University of Vermont.

Based on the mix of attributes your daughter seeks, she might like Vassar. Underneath its arts-oriented veneer your daughter would find a range of academics suitable to her interests. Vassar is not an urban school, but it does connect fairly conveniently to New York City by train.

This resource can be especially convenient for estimating costs: https://myintuition.org/.

@Lindagaf Our daughters sound like similar people! I will tell mine to check out Bates. :slight_smile: I’m pretty sure Carleton will go on the list as well for reach schools.

@Mom24boys I have a friend whose daughter attended Macalester, and she had an amazing experience, so it will probably make the list. I also have friends in the Twin Cities, which would be nice bonus.

@DadTwoGirls Thanks for the recommendations! The idea of attending college abroad is one we hadn’t considered, but I think she’ll be intrigued. I’ll have her check out some of the Canadian schools as potential options. I don’t know if she’s competitive for any of the selective New England schools (10% acceptance rate…She hasn’t cured cancer or given the keynote address at the UN , lol), but I’ll tell her to take a look. I know she attended a virtual info session for Amherst and liked the idea of open curriculum and high diversity, but I think it would be a pretty reachy reach.

Thanks for the suggestions so far - open to more!

Other East Coast schools with notably flexible curricula include Smith, Hamilton and Brown.

URochester!!

University of Puget Sound has a degree in Environmental Policy and Decision making. Studying overseas is an option as well as “peace corp prep”. Near the water and a national park.

Am adding several of the above-mentioned schools to her list to check out - thanks! Just glanced at UPuget Sound, and it looks like a great option for a safety/match school.

URochester looks like an amazing option, but I just ran the NPC and they are the highest $ so far. Bummer.

Some people have mentioned women’s schools - she will not consider them (both of her closest friends are guys, and she can’t picture herself at a school where there aren’t any men to “temper the drama”). Not my opinion, but I doubt she’ll be swayed on that point!

Will also take a look at Hamilton, although she’s not a big fan of the Greek system (Hamilton has frats, right?).

Haverford seems like a good fit for her personality, but maybe a little small? It’s less than half the size of her high school; not sure how she’ll feel about that.

Kalamazoo is intriguing as well; will also add it to the list.

LACs are small by nature. The difference is that at college, students choose to be there. Especially true of LACs.

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Hamilton’s fraternities and sororities can not maintain houses, and are not sufficiently popular to place Hamilton on either of these two lists:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-frats

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-sororities

“I’ll have her check out some of the Canadian schools”

If you want a small university (Canada does not use the term “liberal arts college”), in the east look at Mount Allison, Acadia, St Francis Xavier, and Bishop’s. The last of these has the “difference” that it is an English language university in a bilingual town right next to a French small city in a French province. The rest are in small towns in largely English language areas (although Mount Allison is in New Brunswick, which is officially bilingual). As I said all would be safeties with your daughter’s excellent stats. We toured all of these and I can give you more information if you are interested.

We did not look in Ontario. I have heard good things about Trent and Brock. There are a couple of other small schools further north and west but in small communities that look too isolated to me.

There are also a couple of good small schools in the west that we did not look at, the University of Northern British Columbia (which is quite far north) and Lethbridge (in Alberta).

The price for international students will vary between different schools in Canada. Note however that prices are listed in Canadian dollars, and the exchange rate is really good right now for those of us who live and work in the US and are paying tuition at a Canadian university.

Maclean’s magazine has separate listings for large universities with a medical school (eg, McGill, Toronto, …), medium/large universities without a medical school (eg, U.Victoria, Simon Fraser, …), and small “primarily undergraduate” universities.

If the PNW is appealing she might check out environmental studies at Whitman and Lewis and Clark as well as environmental science at Willamette. Whitman is sort of out of the way but it’s a nice college town, L&C is in Portland, Willamette in Salem (kind of a meh town, but close to mountains and coast). Admission seems pretty likely at those, and they’re known to use merit to get kids they want (such as those not from the northwest or Cali).

Pomona and other Claremont colleges as reaches (Pretty good FA, but check the NPCs). And of course anyone interested in diplomacy or IR should be looking at Princeton. A reach obviously, but exploring how the Woodrow Wilson school is set up might give her ideas about accomplishing the same thing at other schools that are more matches.

I’d also take a look at public university honors colleges, especially if your state flagship has one. They offer some of the advantages of LACs without some of the potential downsides.

There’s a lot of perplexing advice in this thread, suggesting schools that offer merit but which probably won’t get to a sub $30K cost. Most LAC merit is designed to get to about $40K-$45K per year.

Are any of the need-based schools showing a COA which is affordable? If not then you need to focus on schools which offer full tuition merit or close to it. That might mean picking an Honors College at an OOS public is a better choice.

If outdoor activities are a key criteria then there are colleges in the Mountain West (eg Utah/Arizona/New Mexico) which could be of interest and might well be more affordable than coastal locations. Or places in the southeast like South Carolina.

Tufts? Bright students, 5-6k undergrads, just outside Boston, international relations is a popular major, meets 100% demonstrated financial need.

Thanks for the suggestions thus far. I’ve run the NPC on most of them, and those most affordable for us look like Pomona (7% acceptance) and Haverford (20% acceptance).

Amherst, Bowdoin, and Carleton are all within stretch range. Macalester would be a tough stretch even though it seems like a fantastic fit for her, but the lower aid might force her to pass on submitting an application. Of course, those with the best financial aid would be reachy reaches.

Interestingly, Puget Sound is very affordable with estimated merit. Would it be considered a safety? Affordable and 85% acceptance with average ACT 28? She has two very affordable safeties already on her list (state flagship; hopefully in honors program, and Truman State - which I consider a hidden gem of a school in a crappy location), but it would be great to have one outside the midwest.

Environmental Science - Allegheny College in PA. She will most likely get good merit $$ there.