1 H.S. student in 20 taking college courses, say feds.

<p>Our HS offers several dual enrollment college courses during the school year. Our son enrolled in both but the thing he thought was most "cool" was when he was given his college ID which gave him library privleges, access to student center activities and the fitness center. About 15% of his class took advantage of this dual enrollment because it was offered at the HS during regualr class hours.</p>

<p>The downside was that the credits weren't accepted by RPI because the courses were used to fulfill HS graduation requirements.</p>

<p>blue, our dual credit courses do appear on the high school transcript (and the college transcript. Hence "dual credit".)and I was specifically told by admissions at the 2 schools I asked that we should not list them as colleges attended and not to send the "college transcript" since it showed on the high school transcript. Were you told something different? Sorry. I get so confused these days.</p>

<p>Edit: Sorry blue, . I should read more closely. Obviously if they DON'T appear on the high school transcript they have to be listed somewhere. Duh.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Only Caltech, it seems, requires students who have taken APs to retake introductory classes.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's not exactly it. They believe that their introductory courses are beyond AP level, so they don't recognize the AP exam as proving competence. But they certainly don't want kids taking intro courses who know all the material and will be under-challenged. They offer their own internal exams for kids to get credit for intro courses.</p>

<p>I agree with calling post-AP calc courses "college courses" on the self-reported course part of the app, even if you physically took them at your high school and they will show up on your high school transcript. Courses like linear algebra and multivar are only available at a handful of high schools in the country, and would not reasonably be considered high school courses. Calling them college courses will be more accurate and informative for an ad com making a quick scan down the "level" columns to the self reported courses looking for an idea of how rigorous the curriculum was.</p>

<p>Some of our students take courses at the local bottom tier regional college, and the courses are not that hard. Others, my own included, took summer courses from Ivies which were infinitely more rigorous. But yes, it is common here.</p>

<p>Wow! Thanks for all the replies in this thread. It appears that there are a great variety of ways to take college courses at high school age these days, which is something I rarely heard about in my high school days.</p>

<p>When you compare college to high school, some of the differences include the fact that college teachers get their jobs based on expertise in their fields, not teaching credentials. You would never have a football coach teaching history in college. College students are also expected to be much more responsible for their own learning - they have much more control over what they take, whether to attend class, how much homework to do, etc. The things that are appropriate for 18-22 year olds in college may be just as appropriate for smart 16-18 year olds who happen to be in high school. A hundred years ago, people went to college at ages we consider to be "high school age" now. </p>

<p>Simply moving college down to encompass more teens may be a better way to get improve our educational system than trying to effect changes from within our K-12 system, with all of the bureaucracy that is entrenched in our public school system.</p>

<p>Reed also discourages students from using APs to place out
they have "a certain way material is covered" and particulary if you will be taking subsequent classes in that subject- it is far better that you take the intro class on campus as well.</p>

<p>My D at Reed, had not had any AP courses, although I don't see how they could have been any more rigourous.( her prep school doesn't offer them)
I beleive in making high school classes strong- but high school should be high school not college- when did all this pushing down of curriculum start ( I know - I was a Sputnik baby)?</p>

<p>My D who is still in high school is taking at least two very rigorous classes in 10th gd- AP Euro- and doing well and Marine Science- which isn't AP Marine Science- because the dept wants to have deeper control over what is covered- quite interesting class though- right now they are doing navigation and how to sail.</p>

<p>Emeraldkity, your D might want to look at <a href="http://www.celestialnavigation.net%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.celestialnavigation.net&lt;/a>, which my S discovered on the Sea Scouts list .... but for historical reasons, because it is on celestial nav, not GPS etc!</p>

<p>Just out of curiosity, I asked DH what happened at his large public high school - a few students do take dual enrollment classes, usually things like senior English or math. Our state requires a 4X4 curriculum, and the public schools here are on block schedules, so class scheduling can be a real hit or miss proposition. A student might have had 3 years of Eng by the end of 10th grade, or not be able to schedule an advanced English class. Working against dual enrollment, his school is a considerable drive from the CCs and local 4 year commuter school, so a student needs almost a half day to take one course, or would have to take the course at night. A number of the more advanced students are in ECs like band or sports, that would make dual enrollment almost impossible. I would hope that this isn't held against them, because one of the other big high schools in town is much more convenient to a CC.</p>

<p>My kids' own school used to do dual enrollment for the 4th year of foreign language, but because of scheduling conflicts, offers 4 years of French or Spanish in-house now. Few, if any, of their students would be doing dual enrollment, because almost all spread their 4X4 out over the 4 years - a rare child might take a night or summer class, but it would be unusual.</p>

<p>We have PSEO at my school and many kids do it because our curriculum really sucks. We only have 5-6 APs and most are math/science. I do dual enrollment and will have taken nine college courses before I even enter freshman year.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for clarifying the issues. </p>

<p>I have another question if as a student is taught a course which is generally taught at graduate level (professional school level - the faculty is very renowned faculty in academic world) from a faculty at one of the the department at HYP school) on one on one basis. Should my kid list that course also if she published as part of the requiremenst in one of the HYP professional magazine?</p>

<p>The question is not entirely clear. If I understand it correctly, if the student took a course that is beyond high school level, it should be listed under college courses (it will be up to the adcom to decide what it corresponds to in terms of level of difficulty). If possible, the student should secure a recommendation letter from the prof (on the university letterhead) and provide a copy of the article to which the applicant contributed. Presumably, this contribution would be acknowledged either by listing the applicant as a co-author or in footnotes "such as "The author acknowledges the assistance of...." The rec from the university professor may be one of the two required by the college or may be a supplemental rec. Some colleges insist that the two principal recs come from high school teachers, others are willing to have one of the two written by a college prof.</p>

<p>Okay let me clarify it. How would you list it as part of summer work, college course or part of research?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>A one week very depth course in economics from a H faculty that lead to further summer time research which is published in a IVY magazine. Daughter is the primary author and faculty was mentor.</p></li>
<li><p>A one week seminar (only one high school student invited) for current research and the problems and their future solutions This is only available to grad student at MIT. How would you list it?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This probably should go onto a resume.<br>
S listed college courses taken (catalog description attached) and course grade. There were too many anyway for the space provided on the app.</p>

<p>In your D's case, the one week courses would be listed under "college courses." If on the application itself, she would write, see attached resume for details. On the resume, she would describe the course, list the prof and note that the course led to summer research and publication (attach copy). For the seminar, do something similar; in the description, note that she was only high schooler in MIT graduate seminar.</p>

<p>If she pursued other summer time activities, it would be okay to list the summertime research again and note "see above for details."</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>It would be interesting to see what all those students are taking. I know a high school student who is taking a course in camping at the local college. The material is about the same as that learned by an 11 or 12 year-old Boy Scout.</p>

<p>The course my son took in the private college was introduction to statistics; he was not impressed with the curriculum & says he learns a lot more in his HS classes. It was the course his counselor said was most likely to be accepted for college credit when he goes to college.</p>

<p>I can't imagine that a camping course would impress adcoms, even if the course is taken at a college. The colleges can ask for the syllabus of the course (or the student can submit iti). I'm sure admissions committees have seen most of the "usual" tricks.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The course my son took in the private college was introduction to statistics; he was not impressed with the curriculum & says he learns a lot more in his HS classes.

[/quote]

This is precisely why adcoms prefer APs. They know what the curriculum is supposed to cover.</p>

<p>I have a friend who encouraged her kids to attend schools that accepted APs, and both will finish college in 3 years. At my S's 'match' school, he could have skipped a grade. At state U, his dozen APs and dozen college classes would have given him junior status. Who is to know whats better?</p>

<p>I did meet 2 profs at the local college, and was very impressed with both. Amazing was the number of faculty with PhDs from prestigious programs. The disadvantage was the general peer group; the HS kids who dual enrolled were among the brightest and most motivated</p>

<p>S took 11 community college classes, starting with French in 8th grade. He also took 5 APs. He's a first-year student but has mid-sophomore status at his uni. He receives credit for his college classes and gets to skip certain classes due to his AP scores.</p>

<p>D is a sophomore in h.s. and we don't see her taking any college classes due to her sports committment, but she likely will try several APs next year.</p>

<p>I'm in the same situation as curmudgeon's D's, at least to a certain degree. I will have 20 AP hours + 13 college credit hours (6 from SMU and 7 from WashU) by the time I graduate, assuming I pass the rest of my APs...that totals 33. It is one of the many things tempting me to stay in Texas and go to UT (in addition to the stellar business school...cross your fingers for me!). If all goes according to plan, I'll never have to take a natural science again (oh how I loathe thee, biology...)</p>