<p>A friend elsewhere in cyberspace shared a link about Ohio's postsecondary enrollment options (PSEO) program, </p>
<p>and in the article is the rather astonishing statement that "About one high school student in 20 nationwide is taking college courses, says the National Center for Educational Statistics." To me that seems like a lot of students. What do you think? Has your child taken any college courses as a high school student?</p>
<p>Yes. Last summer, son enrolled in a four-week class in biological research at the University of Chicago. It was a real experience, certainly the hardest he 's ever worked. He earned 6.6 credit, and the professor has given him a reference for his college applications. All in all, a very good experience.</p>
<p>Those figures do surprise me though!</p>
<p>In my school roughly half of the seniors take Calculus from NDSCS and 90% of them take College English from NDSCS. If you add in the 3 people that take drafting, that's 1/3 of our high school almost, hah. My highschool does only have around 70 people though.</p>
<p>so are they counting AP courses?</p>
<p>Hi Token</p>
<p>Around here, it seems like all the smart kids take college classes beginning around junior year. I see this mainly in math.</p>
<p>At my S's school, students take college classes beginning sophomore year...2 classes in sophomore year, 4 classes in junior year and 2-4 classes in senior year.</p>
<p>This is in addition to the AP classes they take at the high school.</p>
<p>FresnoMom</p>
<p>We have quite a large percentage of students that dual enroll in at least one high school course--but at the community college level.</p>
<p>My son took a college course in the summer after sophomore year in statistics (he won it as part of the Johns Hopkins Talent Search program). He said it was much easier than any courses he had taken in his very competitive HS. His AP courses use the same textbook that many college courses do--his instructors are on the national committees that help set the AP curriculum. He & most of his classmates get 4s & 5s on all their APs. Most of his HS & other competitive private HSs take AP courses & do NOT take college courses, except as summer school. As a junior he took 4 AP exams & this year he is taking 5 AP courses.</p>
<p>His former classmates who are in public school are in the Running Start program, which allow them to dual enroll in HS & college or community college because their school does not offer much in the way of AP curriculum & does not offer the rigor they want. </p>
<p>Personally, I am glad my kids' HS allows them to have coursework that challenges the kids & allows them to remain on their HS campus. I think it gives them the best of both worlds. They also get a lot of individual attention, since most classes in their HS have fewer than 20 students. (Son's smallest class will have about 4 students next semester--AP Computers AB.)</p>
<p>I believe the numbers are skewed by schools like my daughter's.</p>
<p>At D's school, everyone in the top 40% or so takes some dual credit (dual enrollment ) college courses. The students pay college tuition, buy college books. Usually $250 per semester course total costs. They can take up to 4 semesters a year their junior and senior years. It is not unusual for a top 10% kid to graduate with two semesters of English credit, 2 semesters of U.S. History credit, 1 semester of Economics, and 1 semester of "Government". 18 semester hours. </p>
<p>The community college prof, usually a Phd., comes to the high school MWF, or TTH and teaches the course. My D has taken advantage of this option BUT because she is supposedly "advanced" she takes sophomore "British Literature" online instead of the in-school offering. By their calculations my daughter will have 24 hours of college credit, 18 by classwork, and another six by "examination" (see sophomore English ,above). Added to her 12 hours of AP, that's 36 hours of college credit if she attended UT or A+M or TTU. She would start as a sophomore.</p>
<p>Now before anyone thinks this is "great", it is if you go to a Texas state school or most Texas privates. I believe she will find that her "college courses" will not receive credit as easily as AP's would have at the schools she is contemplating attending OOS. Her school only offers AP courses in AP Calc AB, AP Bio, AP English Lit, maybe AP Art-that's it (although D and one other are taking AP Calc BC for credit online from EPGY).</p>
<p>It does do one thing. It serves as a great inducement to Texas kids to stay in Texas to receive that dual credit. D just looks at it as challenging coursework and doesn't expect any of the college work to transfer for credit, maybe for placement. I agree.</p>
<p>Edit: You know? I never added those credits up before. LOL. Since I have always assumed she would go OOS , since that is what she has talked about since 7th grade, I had never done that. Damn. That's a lot of hours. Now, where was that brochure from Texas Tech? LOL.</p>
<p>DD is taking an anatomy and physiology course at her school that she will also receive community college credit for. Her school has several dual enrollment courses with our flagship state U as well.</p>
<p>My D was able to take a college course taught in the HS as an AP. In theory, the teaching, tests and material were identical to the college course. The tests were graded on the same curve, which was great because the AP HS kids did better than the college kids.</p>
<p>edad, we have had the same experience. The HS kids are more than keeping up with the contemporaneously enrolled college kids.</p>
<p>cur, the program at your daughter's school sounds great, as far as providing challenging courses for high school students. My son took 7 AP classes in HS -- only Juniors and Seniors are allowed to take APs, and he needed special approval to take 5 in his senior year. So, if he had gone to a different school, he would have advanced standing. But the thing is, he is at an Ivy school where EVERYONE did that kind of work in high school. All his APs really did for him, I think, is to prepare him for a selective school, which is all I wanted for him. He is taking multivariable calculus (follow on to AP Calc BC) and placed into honors versions of physics and chemistry, based on his AP scores. So, I guess my point is this: college level/AP classes are good for HS students who are not challenged in the regular curriculum. But if your student is targeting very selective colleges, all that does is put them on level ground with the other students. Kids that don't take APs or college classes are at a disadvantage if they attend selective schools (Ivy's or top 10 etc.) </p>
<p>As far as the HS kids outperforming the college kids, that's not always a fair comparison. The college kids are adapting to living on their own, usually, and the college may not be that difficult in any case. What makes college challenging is often the level of competition within the student body -- I don't mean that as a negative attribute, but the curve is usually based on the best performing students in the class.</p>
<p>
I agree. That's how we see it, too.</p>
<p>Actually there are different issues involved: admission, credit and placement.</p>
<p>I agree that for highly selective colleges, taking college/AP classes will put the applicant on the same footing as other applicants as far as admission is concerned.
For credit, colleges that offer the Advanced Standing option (not all do) prefer APs, unless they are part of a dual credit system, as are the UCs. Otherwise, college classes do not count toward credit, even those taken at the college the applicant ends up attending (S's personal experience).
For placement, however, having taken college/AP classes does count. This applies only to fields of study that progress in linear fashion, such as math. College classes do count in terms of placement, especially beyond the introductory level. Only Caltech, it seems, requires students who have taken APs to retake introductory classes.</p>
<p>D took the Yale Summer Drama program the summer before last. I highly recommend this is one has a S or D who is inclined to any of the theatre arts. It appears to be more intensive than other Y summer courses---kind of a 'boot camp' with a lot of influence from the Yale Drama School (which is graduate level). The interesting thing to me was that it was part academic, part performance and part professionalism. The latter item had a big payoff for my D in that it instilled good time-management skills, which, quite frankly, were one of her weak areas. This has been a tremedous help in her freshman year at college. They also instilled the value of a broad liberal education as an undergraduate vis-a-vis focusing one's undergraduate training in theatre. They feel that this allows one to understand the human condition better upon which to base future character interpretations. This to me (as a pragmatic Engineer) also seems to make a lot of sense for a field that is so competitive and in which so many do not "make it" and may need to fall back on their ability to do other things. She took this to heart in choosing an undergraduate school.</p>
<p>All in all, I think the time and money were well spent. I think my D actually came back a slightly different and more mature person.</p>
<p>Beyond post AP classes, if a student take a college level course in high school such as Mutivariable calculus, Linear Algebra, Reserach in chemistry and Advanced Research topics in Economics -- Do you count these courses as high school level course or college level course? And on application would you put in the college levl courses?</p>
<p>if you recieved high school credit for it- that is it counted toward graduation requirements- then it is included with high school transcript
If it was seperate from credits that applied to graduation- then it would be listed as ECs unless you want to apply as a transfer student
that is at least the way I understand it.</p>
<p>Her highschool offers these coursees. These courses are beyond what is required for gradution. But they will show on high school transcripts. Okay we will not put them on the college level courses?</p>
<p>No, you can list them as college-level courses. They will not count for credit at college, but will certainly help with course placement. You may want to include a catalog description for some of the college-level course that was taken. MV Calc and Linear Algebra are standard courses so you need not include a description but research in chemistry and advanced research in economics certainly require some explanation of topics covered and research undertaken.</p>
<p>the Cal State system subsidizes teachers at many local high schools for calculus, i.e., the class is a regular Cal State class, uses Cal State text book, and provides a college transcript. Class does not show up on HS transcript.</p>
<p>as marite notes, just list 'em on common app under colleges attended, and check no degree.</p>