1 in 5 parents edit their kid's college papers

Parents Forum
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<p>With all due respect, I hope that none of your students would ever dream of adding "The following people have assisted me by editting my paper . . " on the bottom of a paper or a … college admissions essay. </p>

<p>It seems that some college professors might need to make an appointment at their writing center! </p>

<p>[Editting</a> | Define Editting at Dictionary.com](<a href=“http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/editting]Editting”>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/editting)</p>

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<p>I figured it was British spelling! But I think the statement about who helped is an interesting one.</p>

<p>I caught a student plagiarizing once and when I showed her the printout with the original article, she exclaimed: “That is not where I got it.” Oh, that makes it better.</p>

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<p>When looking at the colleges D is interested in, I noticed some of them which require the ACT reading section, note that they use the writing samples for comparison to their application essays.</p>

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<p>This is also obvious to me – alarmingly so – in my current position in education (which is slightly outside of the mainstream). However, in my view this does not change the acceptability of parental involvement to the degree that some admit to doing on this thread. It seems to me that if some parents here have seen the handwriting on the wall from way back when (because they’ve been involved from way back when with reviewing children’s writing), then the “way back” should have been the time to address this. I actually do have a number of parents I work with who have taken their students to summer writing classes, etc., to rectify what the schools are not delivering on. That does not excuse the shameful inattention to the writing process and writing assignments that students are getting prior to college, but I do not see the solution as parental involvement in college.</p>

<p>Lest I be called judgmental, I will not classify it as unethical for others. In my personal ethos, I would consider it wrong for myself to do so. But to me the more universal question (already mentioned) is the problem of independence, not to mention ownership of the grade. </p>

<p>I absolutely love writing, and I love to edit – my work, other people’s work. But I’m not earning even partially their grade, and I’m assuming that their K-16 papers are not going to be published. (Well, the senior thesis was “published” for the U’s library, but I don’t think that counts.) Therefore, for me, the aspect of prudential review by others, prior to finalizing it, is moot. For me, though, the larger point is the independence – the confidence that comes with one’s own mastery. While my mother was a brilliant wordsmith and writer, she also did not edit my work prior to or during college. I think it has helped my confidence enormously to have had to shape my writing abilities on my own. I don’t question that I am self-sufficient, and this self-sufficiency is what I want for my children.</p>

<p>As to the grade, it is not a representation of the product of collaboration, but of the product of the individual’s effort, unless the prof has specified that he/she expects collaboration or even welcomes editing by others.</p>

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<p>This has never been an issue in our household, for many reasons. Mostly, my kids are very happy & proud of their abilities. They may bounce ideas & thoughts off on us and/or friends, but they prefer to do their own editting and proofing. We haven’t been able to help S with much schoolwork since middle school, when we got all the math problems he asked us about wrong! D is also very self-reliant. They have study groups, but I think self-reliance is a great thing. Never had anyone proof or edit more work in college. Sometimes I have friends & loved ones read things I’m going to have published or submitted to a wide audience, but that’s among the few times. :)</p>

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<p>I think its inappropriate, disrespectful, culturally insensitive, and just plain misinformed to label a family as being dysfunctional or to describe offspring as being “codependent” because they sometimes solicit their parent’s help with proofreading or reviewing their work. Some families are simply accustomed to relating and communicating in that way – and I think it is a sign of maturity and a healthy parent/child relationship when college students still communicate regularly with their parents and solicit their advice when they feel it would be useful. </p>

<p>My kids were raised in an environment where they saw written work as a collaborative affair. My ex husband and I practiced in overlapping specialties, and we had a few joint projects – legal appeals that we did together - and it was routine dinner table conversation for us to discuss the briefing as it took shape. My ex also twice litigated cases in the US Supreme Court – he was attorney of record, not me – but of course I read everything that was written in that case and he asked my help and input again and again. We discussed, we debated, we edited, we revised. That is simply the process by which things get written, and its what my kids learned and observed before they could talk.</p>

<p>I have been divorced for 15 years, and I don’t practice law any more, but my ex-husband lawyer still calls me at least once a month to solicit my opinion on some aspect or another of a legal brief he is preparing. I just happen to be a person who he can trust and whose opinion he respects. </p>

<p>“Codependency” is something very different than the label you’ve attached – and it has nothing to do with family members consulting one another or seeking opinions or advice. The term only applies when there is excessive or abnormal reliance or interference going on. A few months ago my d. wanted input from as many people who she could corral for her college thesis; a few days ago my s. wanted input from me about a car loan before he signed the paperwork. I’m glad my 27 year old, married son thinks to call his mom while he’s sitting in the office of a used car dealer with paperwork being thrust in front of him - that’s not codependency, that’s being smart. </p>

<p>I realize that there are probably some parents who go overboard in assisting their college level students – but college profs get help from others in editing their own research papers and writing. (As I mentioned above, my d. had paid jobs in college assisting profs in that manner). So it would be rather hypocritical of them to expect that their students wouldn’t ask for proofreading and commentary from others for their projects and major research papers. </p>

<p>Again, part of the adult writing process – the process done in most workplace environments – involves collaboration, review, and editing of projects an presentation. College should be a time when students become accustomed to working in that sort of environment – after all, if they enter academia, they will have to subject their writing to peer review before it can ever be published, something that can be much more intensive than mere copy editing. (About 6 months ago I wrote to a researcher about a sentence in a journal article that didn’t make much sense – he wrote back that I was correct to have spotted the discrepancy, and explained that he had wanted to write something else but the confusing text was imposed on him during the review process. )</p>

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<p>The title of this thread is “1 in 5 parents edit their kid’s college papers.” Not “1 in 5 people share drafts of emails, performance reviews, loan applications, business writing, and professional journal articles with relatives and/or peers.” I seriously doubt whether a lot of people anywhere are shocked by the latter. But it’s irrelevant, i.m.o., to a grade in a class. It would seem to me that profs who value a current or future habit, in their students, of peer reviewing essays before submission (or any kind of 3rd-party reviewing), are profs who would say so, and maybe even assign that, model that, whatever. Again, whatever any individual feels comfortable doing in their personal moral framework is not something I’m going to condemn; I do not feel comfortable editing college papers, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because of reasons of building solid independence and confidence.</p>

<p>My daughters freely ask for my critiques on their resumes, cover letters, and other non-academic writing not submitted for a grade or represented as solely the student’s effort. It’s because they value my input, as obviously do many of the other S’s and D’s in the world of CC whose parents do not happen to feel comfortable blurring the academic boundaries.</p>

<p>I don’t wish to single anyone out, but I find it curious that many people use threads on any particular subject as an artificial opportunity to imply which parents in their biased opinions are better parents, as if intimate involvement in schoolwork is the measure of that. It’s odd that everything has to be a contest about whose family anyone subjectively feels runs better than the families of “competing” posters.</p>

<p>Just the way I see it.</p>

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<p>…I think making full use of resources is smart…</p>

<p>As someone said earlier, this is true when our main concern is how well it communicates not what grades we are getting. If you are getting graded on what you write, then it should be your work. If you need help you go to the writing center, your professor who knows how much input is healthy to give. It also ensures that you put in efforts to get help; you go there waiting phrasing questions. With parents, it’s just “Mom, Could you look it over?” And you know mom and dad will put in the best effort whether you phrase your question or not.</p>

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<p>My twins have skills in very different areas. S is all about history and humanities. D is all about math and science. It drove me NUTS when they didn’t use each other as resources for studying, explaining concepts, etc. “Guys! You’re each other’s secret weapons! Use each other!” I am glad to say that as they get older, they have done that more.</p>

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<p>“I do not feel comfortable editing college papers, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because of reasons of building solid independence and confidence.”</p>

<p>I agree with this.</p>

<p>“For me, though, the larger point is the independence – the confidence that comes with one’s own mastery. While my mother was a brilliant wordsmith and writer, she also did not edit my work prior to or during college. I think it has helped my confidence enormously to have had to shape my writing abilities on my own. I don’t question that I am self-sufficient, and this self-sufficiency is what I want for my children.”</p>

<p>I also agree with this.</p>

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<p>I think it can help confidence enormously to have expert advice on something – anything.</p>

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<p>I guess either way I see the concept as the same – you need to write / present something to impress / impact other people and you are seeking advice.</p>

<p>Frankly, my business partner and I ghostwrite stuff for one another all the time. Or I’ll ask someone to prepare a memo and I sign my name to it.</p>

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<p>“guess either way I see the concept as the same – you need to write / present something to impress / impact other people and you are seeking advice.”</p>

<p>The concept is very different in that coursework is graded and what you turn in is expected to reflect what you’ve learned. Unless professors allow editing, your work is expected to be your own.</p>

<p>It’s expected that people in the work force turn in the best work that they are capable of doing with whatever help is needed. Discussing one’s ideas with peers, having coworkers look reports over all are acceptable and even welcomed things to do. The bottom line is to produce the best product possible. </p>

<p>In the workforce, someone who insists on doing reports without doing the things I just described probably won’t go far. The workplace is supposed to be a collaborative environment. </p>

<p>Even in journalism, some of the very best writers show their work to and discuss it with other excellent writers before submitting it to their editors.</p>

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<p>There are two important functions of education (well there are probably more, but let’s concentrate on these two): learning and sorting. Many CC student and adult posters focus solely on the sorting aspect (grades matter primarily because they help future employers and grad schools differentiate between students), and thus are outraged with the notion that kids would solicit help. There is a potential issue that overzealous parents (not those on CC but other folks) would go much farther in their assistance than a writing center. But, a big part of the objection I hear has to do with a focus on parents’ interference in the sorting function. </p>

<p>There is also a learning function. How that is best accomplished depends upon the kid. There are probably three things that they should be learning: 1) something about the substance of the assignment (e.g., how to do/write up literary analyses or research papers in social psychology); 2) how to write effectively for that substantive area (I’m not much of a lit person and discovered that some of my kids’ English teachers seem to want them to use the quotes from books not as supporting data points in a conceptual argument but as the core data from which they speculate about the meaning of word choices and the probably unknowable intent of the author – this requires a very different style of argumentation and writing than one might use for a political science paper); and 3) how to take ownership and responsibility for tasks. </p>

<p>In my experience, much of education is done by osmosis. Teachers/professors talk in class and students have to figure out what the teachers want by trial and error. Students hand in papers and 3 weeks later, when the teacher is already on a different subject, get a paper with a grade, some red marks, and some often cryptic comments. The kid is then supposed to figure out what was the difference between what he/she turned in and what the teacher wanted and from that figure out what the teacher wanted (which the teacher probably never stated in an intelligible way). Outsiders, whether from a writing center or study center or family, can help with this flawed educational process. Let’s help the kid focus on what the teacher is trying to teach and what the teacher wants to see (and therefore provides the metric for grading). In high school, I worked with both my kids on this inference process. I’d like my kids to become good at the inference and the writing when they leave HS and superbly proficient at these things by the time they leave college. I don’t see schools doing a particularly good job of teaching them. </p>

<p>But, I think that learning to take responsibility for work product is a key skill for young adults and an overzealous parent can set back that aim; thus, parents need to learn to pull back. I’m not one for overused/misused psychological labels like codependency nor do I wish to be judgmental about when and how parents enable kids to become the owners of what they do. But, that has to be an important task of maturation and something parents can help with. Some kids will be there in 8th grade, others much later. It is not clear that we should assume that everyone is there or should be there in 9th grade or in freshman year of college. </p>

<p>Finally, it is simplistic to say that taking ownership is accomplished by doing everything oneself. In the business world and in the academic world, one can take ownership of a task with a product or effort that incorporates the advice/opinions of others. I think the right course of action is to focus on all three aspects of the learning part of school and help the kid learn all three.</p>

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<p>Here’s what the original article said about the editing. To me, the most important part of the excerpt is: “She recommends parents shift conversations to helping students learn how to make the decision or solve the problem rather than giving answers, a practice that must start when the student is an adolescent living at home.”</p>

<p>Here’s the excerpt in context:</p>

<p>" Another problem dips into academic dishonesty: Hofer said one in five students reported having their parents edit their papers online, a practice that might violate the honor codes of many colleges and universities. While helping a child with a paper at the kitchen table in junior high or high school might be appropriate, sending a paper back and forth for editing can amount to the parent doing all the work, which means the student isn’t learning to do it alone, Hofer said.</p>

<p>She recommends parents shift conversations to helping students learn how to make the decision or solve the problem rather than giving answers, a practice that must start when the student is an adolescent living at home.</p>

<p>Winnetka parent Deb Guy, 55, said it takes discipline to structure communication appropriately because it’s so easy for teens or parents to make a quick phone call. She sees a lot of parents making decisions for their teens or young adults, and agrees that separation needs to start earlier than the day a child is sent to college.</p>

<p>“(Parents) want to be there, but they need to let go,” she said. “They need to send their child back to the problem.”</p>

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<p>NSM, I think it is important to take a step back and focus on what the objectives of education are. I want my kids to enter the adult world equipped with a variety of skills and with the ability to take ownership of their work. Precisely how that is best accomplished may not always be the same for each kid (e.g., “once you go to college, I don’t talk with you at all about your academic work” or “I only talk with you about strategies but provide no direct assistance” may not be the answer for each kid though it may be for many). It is also not best accomplished by having the parent write the kids’ papers.</p>

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<p>Editing can work this way, though. I think there’s an assumption here that editing consists of spoon-feeding correct answers, and there’s a lot of gray space in between hands-off and cut-and-paste-my-rewrite.</p>

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I agree with that. And I am very impressed by the people who can so easily proof their own work after having read the same thing countless times. I can’t do it, my kids can’t do it, and my co-workers often can’t do it. I guess that’s something we should aspire to. This thread has caused me to tell my D2 who is off to college this fall that she needs to review her honor code very carefully and to think about whether there is such a thing as over-editing. If so many people are saying here that the small proofing errors don’t count toward the grrade, maybe she shouldn’t obsess.</p>

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<p>“Editing can work this way, though. I think there’s an assumption here that editing consists of spoon-feeding correct answers, and there’s a lot of gray space in between hands-off and cut-and-paste-my-rewrite.”</p>

<p>My assumption is that college is the time for students to learn to get editing help from people other than their parents, and it would be wise for parents to steer students to such help.</p>

<p>"And I am very impressed by the people who can so easily proof their own work after having read the same thing countless times. "</p>

<p>Virtually no one – including experienced professional editors – can perfectly proofread their own work. </p>

<p>However, perfectly proofread work isn’t needed for virtually any college assignments.</p>

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<p>We talked about this over dinner last night.</p>

<p>DW saw nothing wrong in parental edits, DD didn’t like the idea of parental edits for college papers. In fact she said she would have preferred less editing in HS “I sometimes left a paper up on the computer and returned to find you’d edited it” </p>

<p>DD did ask if writing center services are always completely free. I said I thought so, but was not completely sure.</p>