<p>I do find it a little ironic in the Washington Post piece that an article complaining about the “unfair” situation of a Virginia student not getting into UVA because of the admission of OOS students later says that this same student now “loves meeting friends from different places”. That is, non-VA residents. Part of what makes a great college experience (and what she is already noticing) is exposure to people who are from a variety of backgrounds, geographies and cultures. </p>
<p>In all seriousness though, as long as the admission rate is less than 100% for Virginia residents someone will be upset that they didn’t get in - which seems to be the premise for the WP article. But not everyone can get in. Last year 8839 VA residents applied and 3732 were offered admission. Putting that in perspective means that 3732 Virginia students were selected in front of the young lady profiled in the article. That doesn’t necessarily sound like a problem with OOS applicants as much as it sounds like something in her own application didn’t add up.</p>
<p>If people want to reduce the out of state student percentage, then the Commonwealth of Virginia is going to have to come up with tens of millions of additional state funding a year to make up for the lost tuition dollars. Most of the international students in particular are full pay to UVa, because they are not eligible for AccessUVa aid.</p>
<p>There may be some differences in percentages of in-state students if the numbers include only undergrads or all students. I believe the state standard is only for undergrads. (The Law School and Grad Business schools don’t receive state money anyway).</p>
<p>If you replace 5% of the undergrad student body who are now full pay out of state students with full pay in-state students, that is $20 million a year in lost tuition revenue.</p>
<p>Golf – my understanding is that there is not one hard/fast quota number. I actually don’t think a mandated annual OOS enrollment cap exists.</p>
<p>UVA operates under a management agreement with the state. UVA (and Tech and WM) are essentially charter schools. The agreement sets out a bunch of financial and other operating plans. The deal is that UVA gets a certain amount of autonomy and funding in exchange for being substantially compliant with the goals of the agreement.</p>
<p>So I think the 1/3, 2/3 split is basically baked into all the financial and operating plans that are approved and reviewed by the state. One of the goals of the charter agreement is to increase the number of VA graduates. So UVA would have trouble meeting that objective if it systematically scaled back IS enrollment.</p>
<p>The path currently being followed by UVA is to grow overall enrollment. That way it can provide more spots for VA residents while also enrolling more higher paying OOS-ers.</p>
<p>Here’s one little data point on how IS/OOS works for VA and UVA.</p>
<p>Two UVA students just won Rhodes Scholarships – one is from Chapel Hill, NC (burn Tarheels!) and the other from PA.</p>
<p>There’s definitely smart kids in Virginia, since two VA residents got Rhodes Scholarships too. One who went to Williams and the other to Stanford.</p>
<p>Yes, the deal struck with the state a few years ago was that UVa would increase its in-state and out-of-state enrollments, while maintaining the historic ratio - provided that the state came through with sufficient funding to serve the additional in-state students. My understanding is that the state has fallen short of that promise, which apparently caused UVa to slow down their intended enrollment growth. </p>
<p>As part of that same deal, much of the enrollment growth was supposed to be targeted towards STEM majors.</p>
<p>So if Virginians are unhappy with the number of in-state seats at UVa, maybe they need to ask their Governor and Legislators why the state didn’t come through with the funding needed to increase the in-state enrollment, as was planned?</p>
<p>northwesty, your “one little data point” is just that, a data point. Do many smart Virginia kids go to other schools besides UVa, their state flagship? Of course, that happens in every state. There are MANY Virginia kids at UVa who have the same types of stats as the average OOS admit. Not all, of course, but many do. Your post seems rather snarky. The Virginia kid going to Williams, by the way, has been on the Williams track team for 4 years. If his goal was to be on a team at the college level, it is doubtful he would have been able to do that at UVa. UVa had a Marshall Scholar last year from Richmond, Virginia-Hillary Hurd. If you look her up on LinkedIn , you will find another “little data point.”</p>
<p>Faulty logic. First of all, the raw admit percentage is only part of the overall admissions metric. Secondly, as an example, the University of Idaho <a href=“inter%20alia”>I</a>* also has fewer OOS admits than UVA but that doesn’t mean it’s harder to get into. It means fewer OOS students want to go there.</p>
<p>Living,
This is a link to very early data from EA last January (2013) immediately following offers. Obviously offer percentages can change slightly from year to year, but this will give you a good idea. </p>
<p>Knight - I don’t have the data in front of me but I feel safe in saying the the offer rate (which is the stat determining how competitive it is) is lower at UNC OOS then the offer rate to OOS students at Idaho. It’s a combination of two factors. The number of spaces (percentage of student body, 18% at UNC) and the number of applicants for those spaces, which drives the competition. If you allow for 10% OOS but the draw isn’t there you may have a 50% acceptance rate for OOS students. UVa and UNC used in Northwestys example shows universities that have a big attraction of OOS students, thus there are many applications for those spots and the offer rate is low.</p>
<p>The current trend in the US is a concern to many students. The state cuts funding to state U’s, the state U’s then turn to OOS and international well funded students to make up the lost revenue and well qualified IS students can’t get into their flagships. Costs to students goes up, up, and away and the bubble grows. Soon many state flagships will have >50% of its students from out of state.</p>
<p>Yes, same thing in PA. 1/3 of students at Penn State main campus are out of state, while many in-state students get turned away. U. of Pittsburgh is a similar situation.</p>
<p>northwesty - my heads been elsewhere and I just caught your ‘correction’ on UNC OOS. I use quotes because correction usually has a negative connotation, I didn’t take it that way, don’t believe you intended that. I appreciate knowing current information. Thanks! </p>
<p>I know I’m splitting hairs, but is the offer rate 14% but student body still 18%? I like to pass on correct information and can’t if I’ve got the details bogged.</p>
<p>Blue – no worries. Because UNC’s OOS portion is capped at a low 18%, OOS admissions are very competitive. Only 14% of OOS applicants get admitted. UVA’s OOS offer/admission rate is between 20-25%.</p>
<p>To know which one is actually tougher to get into, you’d have to compare the stats of the two OOS applicant pools (which data is probably not available). But it is quite possible that given the different IS/OOS split, UNC would be easier to get into IS and tougher to get into OOS than UVA.</p>
<p>Once a college reaches a certain level of competitiveness, the admissions decisions become much less predictable. That is because such a high percentage of the applicants are well-qualified. With holistic admissions reviews, many students with very high scores do not get admitted, while students with slightly lower scores do get admitted.</p>
<p>Just look at UVa and W&M. Statistically, they are similar in their admission results. However, every year, many students get admitted to UVa and not to W&M, and visa versa. You can see the same pattern among many other colleges that are competitive with UVa. Therefore, it is absolutely essential to apply to a range of colleges, and to have a couple of real safeties that are BOTH academic and financial safeties and where you could be happy.</p>
<p>Also, be wary of well meaning relatives and friends who may have an outdated view of college admissions. They may make a student feel that they will have not trouble getting admitted to a very competitive college, and set the student up for a big disappointment and a lack of backup options.</p>