1730 ok for harvard?

Pre-College Issues High School Life
41

<p>First of all, you're only a freshman. You have so far to go and you learn so much that helps you in the next few years that is so beneficial to your SATs. Plus there is just a natural increase in your scores. From freshman to sophomore year I think I improved my score by 40 points on the PSAT (that's 400 points on the SAT) and I didn't even study. Relax. Take a deep breath. Put your head between your knees if necessary. It will all be okay.</p>

<p>Also, everyone who applies to Harvard has "perfect scores" and "a perfect GPA". It's your ECs and essays that help you stand out. I mean it's good to have good SAT scores but it''s also just as important to go out and have fun! How else are you going to get the experiences to write those kick butt essays?!</p>

42

<p>your story about not knowing that there was the test until the morning of is a bit egotistical but congrats on your score nonetheless. a 1730 for a freshman is definitely a good start.</p>

43

<p>"I'd say it's mostly practice getting up to 2200, but after that you tap into your natural ability which propels you to the highly acclaimed 2300+" </p>

<p>that was pretty much my point...anyone want to teach me how to quote the right way? pm me.</p>

<p>as much as it pains me to admit, i wholly agree with heretosucceed...its the ECs and personality that gets you into top tier schools...not the scores. although i do think the OP's primary concern right now is GETTING the "perfect" scores taken care of to still be considered 'competitive' -- i have no doubt that rohin can rocket up to a really good score...after all, you've got roughly TWO YEARS. follow the example of ttan's friend/cousin ;)</p>

44

<p>freesia said something that I'd like to expand on-</p>

<p>Your focus for the rest of high school shouldn't be on improving your SAT score, but rather making your high school experience the best it can be. A high SAT score might be a part of that, but it shouldn't take up too much focus. The fact that you're thinking about SATs as a freshman worries me a little, as I didn't even think about them until March of Sophomore Year, and that was already considered early. (especially with all the studying over the summer)</p>

<p>Don't let the obsession with getting a 2300+ or 2400 take over your life...whe n it all comes down to it, the SAT is essentially a number that has nothing to do with how great of a person you are. If you score well, great job. If you don't get what you want (after you've tried your best), accept it and move on. In a couple years after high school, you'll probably forget your score and it won't even matter. </p>

<p>From my experience, colleges would rather you spend more time with ECs- for example they would take a 2200 who has achievements such as being a state/national officer, national competitor, amazing musician/athlete, etc. than someone who only has a 4.0 and 2400. </p>

<p>So much I'd like to expand on, but I've got to get back to studying for my SAT IIs. I'd be more than happy to talk to you more about high school later! </p>

<p>Don't think too much buddy, you've still got the rest of high school ahead of you. =)</p>

45

<p>*Your focus for the rest of high school shouldn't be on improving your SAT score, but rather making your high school experience the best it can be.
*
That's cute but, no. My perfect High school experience would have been debate club, hockey, owning everyone at Super smash, pot parties, and Lisa Schwimmer's bra. </p>

<p>Unfortunately it involved AP physics, AP chemistry, AP everything, calculus, tutoring and the dreaded calculus. Academically speaking a high SAT score should be a priority in high school for anyone hoping to get into a great college- and if Harvard is your goal then it becomes a pretty crucial priority.</p>

46

<p>So, LionHeaded, correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe high school is all about getting into college?</p>

<p>Whatever happened to enjoying ourselves...I've always tried to make high school the best it can be BUT at the same time focus that to make me a competitive college applicant. So far, I'd say it's worked pretty well. Sure an SAT score is important, but it isn't everything. </p>

<p>Maybe I misunderstood you, but I strongly believe ECs are more important than SATs.</p>

47

<p>Well, if you want to make things simple.</p>

<p>Grade School-High School = College
College = Good Job
Good Job = Good Money
Good Money = Comfort
Comfort = Freedom to do Whatever
FTDW = Happiness</p>

<p>Think of "=" as "leads to"</p>

<p>Most people get stuck on that third step in the big picture of things, either by dead-end jobs, lack of motivation, or bad spending habits.</p>

48

<p>I'm not really sure if my interpretation is correct, but are you saying that a prestigious college will land us a good job? (or, I guess, an above average pretty decent one for that matter)</p>

<p>If so, then I'd have to disagree. Many highly successful professionals I've spoken through (connections through DECA and relatives) told me that a couple years into the work force and your college makes no difference. I've been told of Executives from colleges that will accept near anyone who, through hard work and their personality, have risen above those from other schools, say Stanford, Harvard, etc. </p>

<p>I'm pretty sure that that's not what you're saying, but I just wanted to present my argument. </p>

<p>(my apologies to rohin-I didn't mean to begin my obsessive ranting. I won't post here for a while if I'm annoying you)</p>

49

<p>
[quote]
College = good job

[/quote]

Nothing about prestige... just going.
This can also be replaced with "Being michael dell = good job" and bypassing college.
But for most mortals, College should be included in the equation, save athletes and those who are self-made geniuses in their field.</p>

<p>And SATs shouldn't really be fretted over until Junior/Senior Year, or at least when one finishes Geometry and Algebra II. Possibly pre-calc.</p>

50

<p>
[quote]
So, LionHeaded, correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe high school is all about getting into college?</p>

<p>Whatever happened to enjoying ourselves...I've always tried to make high school the best it can be BUT at the same time focus that to make me a competitive college applicant. So far, I'd say it's worked pretty well. Sure an SAT score is important, but it isn't everything. </p>

<p>Maybe I misunderstood you, but I strongly believe ECs are more important than SATs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Whoever told you that ECs were more important than SAT scores was trippin' solid acid. From a certain threshold it is true that the adcom will start looking at the student as an individual (i.e. essays, recs, and ECs) in making the decision, however if you're not up to par with the rest on that academic threshold (which for Harvard I would put at 2200 SAT1 score) you will not be considered. </p>

<p>Bypassing the athletes and jaw-dropping hooks to focus on the normal kids, show me a kid with the most extensive ECs available to him and a 1700 SAT score with matching GPA and I'll show you the first file in the rejection pile at HYPSM.</p>

<p>And yes, academically speaking High School is about getting into college. Does that sound jaded? Perhaps. But it's the cold harsh truth. While it is indeed a great period in everyone's lives where friends, loves, and laughter are primordial, let's not kid ourselves. The reason you studied your ass off for AP Cal was not because of a love of derivatives, now was it? And the reason you're even on this site is not because you like the background color. It's because, experiences aside, the payoff is college.</p>

<p>And while after a couple of years in the workforce your college does lose some of its relative importance, it does decide at what level you enter said workforce. Someone recruited by an iBanking firm from Harvard enters miles ahead from someone who finished an accounting degree at Santa Cruz and will likely start as a bank teller. That's just fact. Does that mean that with 10 years of hard work and a strong sense of ethics that bank teller won't rise up quickly? Of course not.</p>

<p>But the disillusion that which college you graduate from, doesn't change the doors that are open to you (through recruiting, connections, location, field status, and yes the dreaded one that makes everyone hiss: Prestige), is completely, completely false. A few exceptions don't make the norm.</p>

51

<p>@ttan,
no need to apologize :) ! this debate is actually pretty informative and has provided CC with some very good arguments for both sides!!</p>

52

<p>Whoo finally got home.</p>

<p>I'd like to remark on LionHeaded~</p>

<p>I'm not saying that SATs are not important, but rather that they shouldn't be the focus of high school. This is ESPECIALLY true of underclassman (until, I believe, March of Sophomore Year). Instead of starting too early on the SAT, more important things should be focused on, such as finding your passion, discovering what you want to major in, getting experience for what you'd like to be, etc. </p>

<p>And I'm not sure if you are aware, but there is an instance when a 1700 SAT got into Harvard. Sure, it sparked an uproar, but it has happened. Rohin will most surely score substantially higher than this, but the point remains- history has demonstrated that extraordinary ECs balance out SAT. </p>

<p>I agree with you on the fact that part of High School is about getting into the college you want. However, it should not consume everything you do in high school. I've run into far too many people who do things simply because they want it on their transcript. You shouldn't do something for such a selfish reason, but rather because you actually want to and are passionate about it. My philosophy, as mentioned above, is to do what I love and find ways for that to get me into the colleges I want. For this very reason, that is why I have become heavily involved in DECA, Swimming, Cello, and so many other things. How can you succeed if you don't do what you love? It is because of my passion for these things that I have put in countless hours and immense devotion, and have come out successful. It is also because of this passion that I have emerged a competitive applicant. (at least I would consider my self one)</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that Rohin has his entire high school life in front of him, and that if he takes on SATs and all these other things too early, he will burn out and have nothing left for when it matters. Your argument is far more applicable for Juniors, but you must remember that the person who asked us for advice is just beginning high school. </p>

<p>Again, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but that's just what I feel. You have your opinion (which I respect you for), I have mine. Nothing personal here, we're all here to help each other =)</p>

53

<p>there's some good arguments here but at the end of the day; you need both SATs and ECs...period.</p>

<p>bad SATs can keep you OUT of college...but great/perfect SATs cannot get you IN college
that's why I tend to think of SATs are a pre-requisite for ECs - the real decisive factors of admission.</p>

<p>back to the OP, seriously, as you get older, the SAT will get easier and easier for you...why not worry about it when you SHOULD? personally, i think that should be around summer after your sophomore year so you can gear up for that NMQ PSAT...
just wondering, rohin, how much do you believe us "old" juniors/seniors when we tell you to quit worrying? i have a feeling i'm just wasting breath here...it's always difficult to JUST DIGEST the advice of other people who've been through it already ;) i prob felt the same way at at your age. hehe.</p>

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<p>actually, i am truly learning from you "old" people lol. i have decided to pursue martial arts this summer (going to nationals july 12th!!!) instead of taking SAT preparation classes.</p>

<p>thanks guys!!!!!</p>

55

<p>NO. Sorry..
you gotta take SAT again</p>

56

<p>lol, yeah i no. im certainly going to take it again.</p>

57

<p>
[quote]
Whoo finally got home.</p>

<p>I'd like to remark on LionHeaded~</p>

<p>I'm not saying that SATs are not important, but rather that they shouldn't be the focus of high school. This is ESPECIALLY true of underclassman (until, I believe, March of Sophomore Year). Instead of starting too early on the SAT, more important things should be focused on, such as finding your passion, discovering what you want to major in, getting experience for what you'd like to be, etc.</p>

<p>And I'm not sure if you are aware, but there is an instance when a 1700 SAT got into Harvard. Sure, it sparked an uproar, but it has happened. Rohin will most surely score substantially higher than this, but the point remains- history has demonstrated that extraordinary ECs balance out SAT.</p>

<p>I agree with you on the fact that part of High School is about getting into the college you want. However, it should not consume everything you do in high school. I've run into far too many people who do things simply because they want it on their transcript. You shouldn't do something for such a selfish reason, but rather because you actually want to and are passionate about it. My philosophy, as mentioned above, is to do what I love and find ways for that to get me into the colleges I want. For this very reason, that is why I have become heavily involved in DECA, Swimming, Cello, and so many other things. How can you succeed if you don't do what you love? It is because of my passion for these things that I have put in countless hours and immense devotion, and have come out successful. It is also because of this passion that I have emerged a competitive applicant. (at least I would consider my self one)</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that Rohin has his entire high school life in front of him, and that if he takes on SATs and all these other things too early, he will burn out and have nothing left for when it matters. Your argument is far more applicable for Juniors, but you must remember that the person who asked us for advice is just beginning high school.</p>

<p>Again, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but that's just what I feel. You have your opinion (which I respect you for), I have mine. Nothing personal here, we're all here to help each other =)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't get why you keep saying you're misunderstanding just because your views are being contradicted. I think my comments are quite direct and clear. :confused:</p>

<p>And I'm quite aware of the student who got into Stanford (not Harvard) with a 1700, having cited him in my first post on the thread. It changes absolutely nothing. The resulting uproar was exactly because this was wildly outside the norm. You cannot state him as an example of guidance here. It is *not *the norm for 1700 to get into the ultra-competitive colleges. Period. This guy was the 1 in the million shot. </p>

<p>And let's not forget, aside from a subpar SAT score his GPA was quite high, meaning that the adcom felt that the score did not represent his academic value. Everything else was high. So no, history has not demonstrated that extraordinary ECs balance out horrible SAT scores. One student with great ECs and a sucky SAT score got it. Compare that to the thousands and thousands of students with great ECs and a subpar SAT score that get turned down each year and you will see the accurate conclusion here.</p>

<p>And no one is saying that he can't score higher at a later point. That has in fact been the general recommendation here. What you said however was, and I quote " [his] focus for the rest of high school shouldn't be on improving your SAT score, but rather making [his] high school experience the best it can be." which greatly undermines the value of the SATs for college admission.</p>

<p>If he wants to get into Harvard it should be a great focus for him to improve his score (and keep a flawless academic transcript) which is essential to even having a shot at getting into his dream college. And yes, he should start working on it as soon as possible because 500 pt leaps in SAT scores don't happen with a weekend cram session one week before the actual test. He's way below the bar at this point.</p>

<p>And I never suggested that he does ECs simply to get into college so I don't know where that came from since my point was solely on the SAT. However I will say this, even your chosen-for-passion-and-not-college ECs of DECA, Swimming, Cello are all things that are looked upon well by colleges. And added to your presence on this website, I hardly believe that to be a coincidence. You may have chosen to get involved in things that interested you but you kept colleges in mind in the process of this I am certain. You, like many others went for 'things that interested you AND wouldn't hurt you down the line in your college applications' which is what I believe to be the best option when it comes to ECs.</p>

<p>You didn't go for the Yu-Gi-Oh clubs or legalize marijuana efforts, you went for instruments, activities, and associations that will be look upon well by colleges. While this may have a lot more to do with your person than profile, the "Follow your interest and to hell with college" argument does lose a bit of its steam when *all *your interests are things that colleges like, doesn't it?</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

58

<p>LionHeaded versus ttan...showdown!</p>

59

<p>Lionheaded-</p>

<p>So we do agree on one thing- that he should work on his SAT. However, you believe it is his #1 priority, while I believe it is #2 to ECs. (this goes back to your "Whoever told you that ECs were more important than SAT scores was trippin' solid acid.") One of my friends spoke the truth when he said that "GPAs and ECs take years to build, whereas the SAT takes a couple months to a year in extreme cases." Colleges are starting to look towards ECs more and SAT less. Depending on the applicant pool, they take the high-achieving 2200 with rich ECs over the 2400 with little involvement. That's stretching your words to an extreme, but the exaggeration proves my point of how SATs are becoming less as the most important admission factor and more as a reinforcement to academic success. I'm not staying he shouldn't put in extensive study, but rather that he should take out hours he would devote to raising his (hypothetical) mid 2200 to a 2400 and put them into ECs. </p>

<p>And, as I said before, he is just beginning high school. A 17-- is obviously far below the average for competitive schools, but then again, how many of us scored a 22--/23-- when we were Freshmen??? I remember when I took the SAT in middle school (the old one), I got a humbling 1000/1600. Rohin shouldn't be thinking too much (if thinking at all) about the SAT at this point-the most he should do is experiment to see where he's starting at, something he has already done. As time goes on and he learns more in high school, he'll most surely improve. I wouldn't be surprised by a 190 or even 200 next year when he takes the PSAT. He shouldn't be putting focus into getting a high score now- he will improve as time goes on and stressing now will only add unneeded pressure and take away precious time. </p>

<p>Another thing I have to remark is that my activities are seen as something for college, but I am not doing them/trying my best in them to get into Stanford (where I want to go). I became DECA State President not so it would look good on a transcript, but to prepare my self for my life after college. Back then, for me, it was a choosing SAT or DECA. I chose DECA. Believe as much as that as you want, but it's how my life as been. A point about my life that should also be taken into consideration is that I did not dream/desire of going to a highly ranked university until right before Junior Year. Nonetheless, I was already committing tremendous amounts of time and energy to cello and swimming in Middle School. Maybe I'm one of few, but that is truly how it has played out. Or maybe it's the drive and ambition seen among my family that makes us work hard not because of a goal but rather because it is the least we expect of ourselves. </p>

<p>Rohin- I strongly want to emphasize how you shouldn't let your drive for Harvard consume everything you do. There is life outside of high school other than SATs, getting into college, etc. Make the most out of it. Enjoy it while you can, you only get one chance in life to go to high school =)</p>

<p>(but don't think that means slack off or anything around those lines- always work hard and do your best! You can still have loads of fun in high school while working your @$$ off)</p>