2 days left to choose: Princeton vs. Vanderbilt (full tuition scholarship)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>I was lucky enough to get into Princeton and Vandy (Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship, which includes a research stipend and full tuition), and this decision is much harder to make than I expected it to be. While my parents can afford to pay for Princeton, Vanderbilt does seem like a good deal. Is Princeton worth the extra $26,000 per year?</p>

<p>Some background:
I'm from NJ, so I'd love to stay near my family and friends. I'm not sure what I want to study, possibly international relations, econ, creative writing, enviro studies. I want to be a journalist in the future or even a media lawyer if journalism doesn't work out. At Vandy, I will only have to pay $18 k in living expenses, and at Princeton, I have to pay $44 k. I don't know if I will go to grad school.</p>

<p>I've visited Princeton and fell in love with it, but I haven't visited Vandy. I am seeking an intellectual but laid-back environment with good research/internships and close contact with faculty (which, from my visit, Princeton seems to have).</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for your help!</p>

2

<p>I think that Princeton is the better option in this case. It may be more expensive, but I was also accepted at Vandy and I am choosing not to attend primarily because of the prevalent Southern culture. Since you are from the Northeast, the cultural adjustment may be difficult since Vandy has some absurdly small percentage of people from that region. Princeton is an AMAZING school and it sounds like you would be happier there. And if you want to be really superficial, then Princeton definitely has more prestige than Vandy. Good luck:)</p>

3

<p>I’d say Vandy in a heart beat. A top notch institution free is an unbelievable opportunity.</p>

4

<p>Only you and your parents can decide on whether Princeton is worth an extra $26,000 per year. However, in terms of your lifetime earnings the difference may be only a small percent.</p>

<p>Princeton may be best for students that are undecided on their major. Students that are convinced that they want to study petroleum engineering may decide to go to the University of Texas or future film directors may want USC. If you are undecided Princeton is a great university to explore different majors.</p>

<p>For your interests Princeton is an exceptional good fit. The Woodrow Wilson School is one of the best schools in the world for international relations. Read about the WWS here: [Woodrow</a> Wilson School of Public and International Affairs | Home](<a href=“http://wws.princeton.edu/]Woodrow”>http://wws.princeton.edu/)</p>

<p>Princeton offers the opportunity to study with some of the best economists in the world. Paul Krugman won the 2008 Nobel Prize winner in Economics for his theories on global trade. Daniel Kahneman won the 2002 Nobel Prize winner in Economics "for having integrated insights from psychological research into economic science”. John Nash *50 won the 1994 Nobel Prize in economics for his game theory. Eric S. Maskin won the 2007 Nobel Prize in Economics for mechanism design theory. Burton G. Malkiel *64 previously served as a member of the Council of Economic Advisors (1975-1977). Harvey S. Rosen was a member of the Council of Economic Advisors from 2003-2005. The current Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke was the former Chairman of the Economics Department. There may be no better university to study economics. </p>

<p>The creative writing program has been called the best undergraduate creative writing program in the U.S. See: [Creative</a> Writing at Lewis Center - Lewis Center for the Arts](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/arts/arts_at_princeton/creative_writing/about_the_program/]Creative”>Creative Writing - Lewis Center for the Arts) The Program in Creative Writing offers Princeton undergraduates the unique opportunity to pursue original work in fiction, poetry, screen writing and translation under the guidance of 15 practicing writers, including Jeffrey Eugenides (Pulitzer Price winner in 2002 for his novel Middlesex), Chang-rae Lee (Hemingway Foundation/PEN Award in 1995, named by the New York Times as one of the best American fiction writers under 40), Paul Muldoon, Joyce Carol Oates (published over 50 novels and won the National Book Award), James Richardson (Recipient of an Award in Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters for his poetry), Tracy K. Smith (2004 Rona Jaffe Writers Award, 2005 Whiting Award, 2006 James Laughlin Award), Susan Wheeler (Witter Bynner Prize for Poetry from the American Academy of Arts & Letters), Edmund White (National Book Critics Circle Award ) and C.K. Williams (2000 Pulitzer Prize for Repair, National Book Critics Circle Award, National Book Award) . Paul Muldoon is the author of ten major collections of poetry, and was awarded the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for his work. He has been described by The Times Literary Supplement as “the most significant English-language poet born since the second World War.” Professor Oates was awarded the National Humanities Medal by President Obama. The medals are the highest government honors given to scholars, writers, artists and entertainers. The 2010 Nobel Prize winner in literature, Peruvian novelist Mario Vargas Llosa is teaching the creative writing course Techniques of the Novel. [Princeton’s Firestone library holds the notebooks, correspondence, and manuscripts of many of the leading Latin American 20th century writers, including those of Mario Vargas Llosa.] The last American to win the Nobel Prize in literature was Professor Emeritus Toni Morrison in 1993. </p>

<p>The Princeton Environmental Institute is the center for environmental studies at Princeton. See: [Undergraduate</a> -*Princeton Environmental Institute : Undergraduate](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/pei/undergrads/]Undergraduate”>http://www.princeton.edu/pei/undergrads/) Professor of MAE Robert H. Socolow and Professor of Ecology Stephen Pacala’s concept of a stabilization wedges was used in the climate movie An Inconvenient Truth. Time magazine included these two professors on its list of the world’s 100 most influential people. Professor Pacala explained the stabilization wedges to the UN General Assembly. As co-directors of the Carbon Mitigation Initiative (CMI) at Princeton University, Socolow and Pacala oversee research exploring the potential of wind, solar, hydrogen, geothermal, and nuclear power that should contribute to several of the wedges. Professor Pacala was featured last week on the PBS Nova science program on global warming. See: [NOVA</a> | Power Surge](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/power-surge.html]NOVA”>Power Surge | NOVA | PBS) </p>

<p>A Pulitzer Prize-winner who writes for the New Yorker and author of 29 books John McPhee '53 said that the greatest strength of the journalism program comes from the individual professors who create courses with their own unique writing experience in mind. Evan Thomas, editor-at-large for Newsweek who as written seven books and over 100 cover stories on national and international news is also on on the faculty. The professors of journalism are practicing journalists from publications such as the New York Times, the Washington Post, Sports Illustrated, and the International Herald Tribune. See: [Princeton</a> University Council of the Humanities](<a href=“http://humanities.princeton.edu/courses/fall2011/jrn/]Princeton”>http://humanities.princeton.edu/courses/fall2011/jrn/) Students interested in journalism write for the student newspaper The Daily Princetonian and for The University Press Club. See: [The</a> Ink](<a href=“http://www.universitypressclub.com/]The”>http://www.universitypressclub.com/) </p>

<p>If you decide to attend Princeton you will be able to explore your interests to a depth matched by few universities.</p>

5

<p>What do your parents say? It is, after all, their money. So whether it’s worth it or not is in large part their decision. Oh, and BTW, if they can easily afford it, go to Princeton. You will be glad you did. If your parents will be deprived, or have to go into debt, to Vanderbilt.</p>

6

<p>That is a tough choice… It depends on how rich you are, I guess. If I made over $300k, I’d gladly be willing to pay an extra $26k/yr for my kids to attend Princeton.</p>

7

<p>I’m not normally one to deal with matters of finances, but from your statement about how you loved Princeton when you visited, Vandy seems like a very risky option especially given that you haven’t visited campus. If the extra money isn’t really a problem for your parents, I would suggest going where you know you’ll be comfortable.</p>

8

<p>Yes, it’s nearly all about finances… Vandy and Princeton are hardly in the same league (with the possible exception of the south), and while Vandy is perhaps the second most prestigious university of the south, after Duke, (despite it’s location, Emory is not really a southern school, nor Atlanta is a typical southern metropolis. In addition, Vandy have the largest proportion of southern students, so I think it could be considered as “The” ultimate southern school, not the State University of New Jersey at Durham :D), it’s prestige fades outside the south, while Princeton have an extraordinary strong brand name everywhere in the globe. As you mentioned that you would love to be close to your family, I assume you would like to stay in NJ or NY upon graduation, and fairly obviously, here Princeton’s influence is the strongest. Anyway, Princeton is currently ranked 2nd in the USNews, while Vandy is ranked 17th. Also, for undergraduate studies, I firmly believe that Princeton is simply the best school in the states. </p>

<p>And, of course, you would be close to your family at Princeton, while Nashville is quite far away. All in all, if your parents have the money, willing to spend it, and this would cause no problems or deficit in the family budget, then go for Princeton!</p>

9

<p>I’d say it depends on what you want to do and what your personal finances look like. Also, regarding the most prestigious school in the south… Rice ranks up there next to Duke if not above it. :D</p>

10

<p>OFF</p>

<p>Rice as a university perhaps more prestigious than Duke? A little bit biased, aren’t you? :P</p>

<p>ON</p>

11

<p>There’s no waaay Rice is more prestigious as Duke. Not even close.</p>

12

<p>Well, I don’t think that Princeton is laid back thanks to the new grading policy.
However, you say that you haven’t visited Vanderbilt. Is there a way you can still make a quick trip to Nashville? I was determined to like Vanderbilt and really disliked it when visiting. Given that a lot of money is at stake, I would hop on a plane to make an informed decision.</p>

13

<p>I would actually argue that grade deflation allows us to stress out less about grades since it’s perfectly okay to get a B, because all but the top 3% or so of the class gets them at some point. Grades really aren’t that big a deal to people here. Yes, we all want to do well, but there’s no pressure to have a 4.0 or anything. If you’re not getting the grades you got in high school, that means you’re being challenged, and that’s typically good for you.</p>

14

<p>^^^ Until you graduate and start looking for a job! See: [At</a> Princeton University, Grumbling About Grade Deflation - NYTimes.com](<a href=“At Princeton University, Grumbling About Grade Deflation - The New York Times”>At Princeton University, Grumbling About Grade Deflation - The New York Times) and [Editorial:</a> On grade deflation - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/12/02/24601/]Editorial:”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/12/02/24601/)</p>

15

<p>Average GPA has dropped by .07 since '03. It’s not going to make or break your entire life. There aren’t even any data to suggest that grade deflation has changed our job prospects at all. Do we like grade deflation in general? Not a chance. Do we complain about it all the time? A lot of people do - when we want to complain about something, grade deflation is an easy target. Is it a valid reason to pass up on Princeton? No way. The existence of grade deflation is no reason to think Princeton is not laid back. In fact, according to the very questionable Daily Beast, Princeton is less stressful than Vandy.</p>

16

<p>^^^ [Princeton</a> leads in grade deflation - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-03-27-princeton-grades_N.htm]Princeton”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-03-27-princeton-grades_N.htm)</p>

<p>Granted this article is 4 years old, but . . .</p>

<p>"Jennifer Mickel, a Princeton University senior, can’t help but look around a class of 10 students and think, “Just three of us can get A’s.”</p>

<p>Since Princeton took the lead among Ivy League schools to formally adopt a grade-deflation policy three years ago — limiting A’s to an average 35% across departments — students say the pressure to score the scarcer A has intensified. Students say they now eye competitive classmates warily and shy away from classes perceived as difficult.</p>

<p>“It used to be that you’d let someone copy your notes if they were sick,” says Mickel, 21, of Monroe, La. “Now, if someone misses classes, you’d probably still let them, but you’re also thinking: ‘Gee, you might get the A while I don’t.’”</p>

<p>“Professors resistant to lowering grades often point out that student quality has risen over the same time period and they should have discretion to dole out grades as they see fit, Ehrenberg says. That’s why Princeton continues to stand alone on the subject, he says: Attempting an institution-wide policy will be met with resistance.”</p>

<p>“In 68 pages of anonymous comments, students said they avoid classes where they’re less confident of getting a good grade or drop out if highly competitive students enroll. They also griped about the policy putting them at a disadvantage with their peers at other Ivy League schools when applying to graduate schools or for jobs.”</p>

<p>“It’s difficult for me to believe that a B-plus at Princeton would ever be viewed as the same as an A at Harvard or Yale,” says Lenahan, who still calls Princeton the best college in the country."</p>

17

<p>Actually, Gibby, quite a bit has changed in the last four years. An increasing number of books and news analyses are now questioning the seriousness of the academic mission at universities in the U.S. The claim is that the emphasis at many institutions seems to have shifted from the academic to the social–college as an ‘experience’ as opposed to college as a place to grow intellectually and to achieve.</p>

<p>The national debate is more frequently now including references to the problem of grade inflation even at universities that aspire to high standards. In many ways the problem of grade inflation may hurt the best students the most as there is no way for them to distinguish themselves from peers who aren’t as serious about their studies. This was the problem that Princeton (and now other schools) have been trying to address. There is also now some evidence that admission committees at graduate and professional schools are beginning to question the GPA’s of students graduating from schools that are known to have significant grade inflation.</p>

<p>See the following two articles about a recently published book on the subject:</p>

<p>[College</a> the Easy Way](<a href=“Opinion | College the Easy Way - The New York Times”>Opinion | College the Easy Way - The New York Times)</p>

<p>" Unsurprisingly, Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses (University of Chicago Press, 2011), by Richard Arum and Josipa Roksa, reveals that at least 45 percent of undergraduates demonstrated “no improvement in critical thinking, complex reasoning, and writing skills in the first two years of college, and 36 percent showed no progress in four years.” And that’s just the beginning of the bad news."</p>

<p>[A</a> Perfect Storm in Undergraduate Education, The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“A Perfect Storm in Undergraduate Education”>A Perfect Storm in Undergraduate Education)</p>

18

<p>Exaggeration: it happens everywhere, especially in the news. Her thinking in the first line is 100% false, and I have yet to encounter an instance here when a student refused to help another student on a problem set. Everyone at Princeton knows that helping others cannot lower your own grade because in a large class, one person won’t alter the curve, and in smaller classes, there is no grade quota. But those statements sure make a great news article.</p>

19

<p>There are a lot of articles on grade deflation and its impact in the “Daily Princetonian.”</p>

20

<p>I was actually in the exact same situation last year, but had visited and loved both schools. Being from the south, I definitely felt at home at Vanderbilt, which was very similar to my high school in demographic and culture. I was so close to accepting the scholarship, but after talking with a student on the phone at Princeton, who I am close friends with now, I decided to come here. This school has unparalleled opportunities (but actually), and I would say a much more intellectual culture. I won’t say that there aren’t times I wonder about my choice, but there are many more moments that I can’t imagine being anywhere else.</p>