20 yr-old Cdn. Wants to study Composition in the US

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>I'm 20 years old, I'm looking to apply to school as an Undergraduate major in Composition. I've played the piano since I was 8 years old, and I have been composing since the age of 11. Last June I completed a Piano Diploma (ARCT Level) through the Canadian Royal Conservatory of Music (RCM). I am proficient enough to play concert pieces such as the Ballade in G Minor, Toccatas by Bach, or other such repertoire. Right now, I am learning 'Perpetuum Mobile' by Carl Maria von Weber, by myself. Youtube it, it’s a wonderful piece.</p>

<p>I've never really taken a composition lesson. Instead, my piano teacher, who majored in composition himself when he was a student, has taken a hands-off approach where I bring him a composition every couple of weeks, and he gives me suggestions or critiques. He's also brought me up through harmony and counterpoint exams, all of which I've taken with the RCM. </p>

<p>My favorite classical composers, (pre -1930) are Bach, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and Debussy. My favorite 20th century composers are Steve Reich, John Adams, Philip Glass, Robert Muczynski, Nikolai Kapustin, and Krzysztof Penderecki. I’ve been influenced greatly by American composers. </p>

<p>I don't want to be a neo-classical composer. I want to find some distinct, unique in my own writing style that I can emphasize. I don't feel any need to imitate or emulate Chopin or any of the great classical masters, even though they are role models for me. By understanding the strengths and weaknesses of his/her predecessors, a composer can learn to utilize musical devices properly. That is how Bach is still relevant for me, even though I will most likely not be writing 4-part fugal counterpoint for the harpsichord. But I will integrate elements of counterpoint, because writing good melodies in a linear fashion is so important for orchestral works.</p>

<p>I compose mainly in a tonal style with rhythm a solid foundation. All my best pieces started out as musical rhythms I clapped, imagined, or improvised on the piano. I am always open to experimentation. My teacher told me it was important to showcase a versatile composition style, that is, write in different genres or compositional tools. So I researched 12-tone through wikipedia, listened to some atonal works, and went from there. I am trying to be as well-balanced as possible, musically. </p>

<p>I have borrowed books on counterpoint (Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum) and orchestration (Kent Kennan's Technique of Orchestration). I am working on a piano concerto for my composition portfolio. </p>

<p>Things that I have going for me:</p>

<p>1) Solid understanding of music theory, counterpoint, tone leading, borrowed chords, musical terminology (i.e. stretto, fugal counterpoint, thematic development vs. motivic development)
2) Musicianship, profiency with a keyboard instrument, musicality. I understand what elements make a composition interesting to hear and interesting to play. I almost always compose at the piano, not away from it.
3) High SAT. I've not taken the real test yet, but I just tried a full practice test late last night (I was up until 1 am) and I got a 1960. I think with sufficient preparation I could get to 2100.
4) </p>

<p>Negatives:
1) Overaged, I think a lot of places might take somebody younger who has 'more potential' than me
2) My high school GPA, Is around the 2.7 mark. Unfortunately, I went to a very difficult accelerated school, so my grade 10 and 11 marks hovered around 71% or a C. My Grade 12 average is around 85%. I improved, but not enough to bring my overall cumulative GPA to a great point. I really worry about this.
3)I don't have a lot of financial security. </p>

<p>My father is the only one who can pay for tuition. Unfortunately he doesn't support my dream of being a working composer. He wants me to major in something else, and having a minor in music is as far as he wants to go. We've had many arguments and discussions about this. He doesn't understand that I've taken a lot of different courses in other fields, and nothing else inspires or enlivens me like composing music. I really worry that I might be accepted into a pricey institution and if I don't get a full or near-full scholarship I won't be able to attend. Especially as an international student, I don't have access to US federal grants.</p>

<p>4) My possible inability to get to an audition. </p>

<p>I've been saving up some money from my job, and I've got $500 set aside so far. I think I might have enough for a train ride should I be invited for an audition at a school that interests me. But I don’t know if I will have the money to afford travel to multiple schools. </p>

<p>Based on my situation, I've set up some criteria or guidelines for schools I'm looking for: (in decreasing order of importance)</p>

<p>1) A school where I'd be in the top ranks, so I'd have a better chance of qualifying for financial aid
2) A school which has a dedicated performance program, or a conservatory, so I interact with performers to better understand the needs of performers (so important when writing orchestral parts!)
4) An audition not being required for a composition major, so I am not at a disadvantage
3) A school which has a minor in music business, technology, or music production, so I will have more tools in my career. </p>

<p>I’ve shortlisted some possibilities at the moment: McGill, University of Toronto, Curtis (longshot), Youngstown state (recommended by College search). Of course, I know very little about the quality of the composition education at these schools. I don’t believe in the value of name prestige, so if a no-name school has a great composition department, I would still be thrilled to attend.</p>

<p>It’s my dream to be a film composer. I know that is a long shot, and many composers have had to sacrifice their individual style to better suit the desires of big budget film studios. But you have to set high goals to get anywhere, so that’s my career goal, long term. </p>

<p>So I ask you, parents, friends, colleagues, here, if you know of schools where I would be a good fit. I would be very grateful for any advice! </p>

<p>Thank you,
Ivan</p>

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<p>PianoEMT - what part of Canada do you live in? If you don’t have much money for travel you may want to look at schools which are closer to you, or easier/cheaper to get to. If I were you I’d drop Curtis from your list - they only accept 1-2 students per year, and they usually have years of experience and a long resume. I’ve never heard of Youngstown so can’t say anything about the program.</p>

<p>I think you and your father really need to sit down and talk about how much he’ll pay for your schooling. It may be that you should really stay within the Canadian system for undergrad - because of finances. McGill is a top composition program - but very competitive. I’m sure there are alternatives, such as Toronto, which could suit you well at this time. Canada has a number of exciting young composers and ensembles. I don’t think you should feel compelled to come to the US for undergrad. </p>

<p>Your grades are going to be a problem for admission to many of the American colleges with well known composition programs. They wouldn’t matter, however, if you apply to a conservatory. You might look at Eastman. And Lawrence University’s conservatory.</p>

<p>One school you might consider which could be close to where you live (depending!) is Grand Valley State in Michigan. It is an under the radar school with a lively new music scene (i.e. they like contemporary American music.) Perhaps they have merit money for good SAT scores.</p>

<p>As for auditioning - many composition programs will allow you to skype an interview if you cannot afford to travel. Or do a regional audition on an instrument, if they require one - which they don’t all do. Some composition programs don’t even require either an interview nor an audition.</p>

<p>As for having works in different styles to submit with your application - I think it’s more useful to have live recordings of pieces with different instrumentation.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

3

<p>SpiritManager offers very wise advice (and knows much more about composition programs than most people on this board). </p>

<p>I am Canadian (and not an expert in comp programs) and I concur that you should focus most of your search in Canada if finances are an issue. Tuition for Canadians for strong programs in Canada is a fraction of what it is for the strong US programs (Canada: ~$7 or 8k; US: ~$25 to $40k). While more merit aid is available in the US, the merit aid will rarely bring the cost down to anywhere near Canadian levels (and strong students at Canadian universities can usually get most of tuition covered by scholarship, at least after first year; your high school marks may preclude much money at a Canadian university for your first year, unless the music dep’t has substantial scholarships for worthy entering composition students). While there are a few US programs that might offer you a full-ride, they would not be programs of a calibre comparable to the best in either Canada or the US.</p>

<p>Most serious music students now pursue study past the undergrad level. Financial support is usually more generous at the graduate level (and a master’s requires half or less than half the finances that an undergrad requires). So, I would be very reluctant to incur much debt at the undergrad level in music. Save that for grad studies. If you are good, you can gain admission to and financial support from a strong US program then. </p>

<p>Composition tends to be a much more “academic” discipline than performance, so having a McGill or U of T pedigree would be viewed favourably. The other two Canadian music programs (in English Canada) that are strong are UBC and Western, but I don’t know much about their strengths in composition.</p>

<p>Your age will not be a negative factor at Canadian composition programs; if anything, it might be viewed favourably. I don’t think that it would be much of a negative factor at US comp programs either (but other posters, please correct me if I am wrong). Age is a somewhat larger factor for instrumental performance. </p>

<p>You are correct that your facility with the piano will be an asset. I would encourage you to get in touch with a composition professor at a local university for a lesson or two. They could probably give you valuable career advice. The lesson may be free (comp profs in my part of Canada rarely get requests from pre-undergraduates for comp lessons and would view them as potential students), but even if there is a hefty charge, I believe it would probably be money well spent in terms of saving you time and money in the future. Check the music department’s website at your local university to determine who teaches composition and email them. </p>

<p>The Canadian Music Centres also will have plenty of information on practicing composers in your area that you may want to contact; I suspect that you live quiite close to one of the CMC’s (Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and probably Halifax). In your case, if I were given a choice between a university comp prof and a practicing composer, I would probably choose the prof because they can give you application/school advice in additional to composition advice.</p>

<p>While you don’t have access to US federal grants, as a Canadian, you do have access to federal and provincial student loans. As I mentioned previously, I would advise against going deeply into debt for an undergrad musci degree, but if you were living at home and just needed a couple of thousand to supplement your job savings to cover tuition, then there is no huge harm in accessing the Canada Student Loans program.</p>

<p>Check with music departments to determine if you take composition courses as part of a music minor. At some Canadian universities (McGill, for instance), you can place out of many of the requisite theory/academic music classes. If you did well in your RCM theory exams, then you should easily be able to place out of at least the first 2 or 3 McGill theory courses, perhaps 2 aural musicianship classes, one or two keyboard proficiency classes, and one or two music history classes. That would free up enough space to fit in a non-music major to satisfy your father while allowing enough time to study composition seriously.</p>

<p>All the best in the future!</p>

4

<p>Great advice above from spiritmanager and violindad. Focusing on Canadian schools may make the most financial sense. I know a couple of student composers from the US who have happily gone to McGill.</p>

<p>You are most definitely not too old.</p>

<p>Are you mainly looking at BM programs, or both BM and BA programs? Composition is more of an academic major and can be studied at a conservatory/music school for a BM or at a college/university for a BA. For a BM program, you would apply with a portfolio of 3-4 pieces, preferably played by excellent musicians, and then go for an interview. Some programs also require an instrumental audition, some don’t. For a BA program, you would apply as any student would, but could send music CD(s) as part of an arts supplement. At least, in the U.S. Some schools do have insturmental auditions, but most don’t, and then there are auditions on campus for participation in extracurricular ensembles and so on.</p>

<p>A BM degree would be 2/3-3/4 music courses. A BA degree would be 1/4-1/2 music courses. A Bachelor’s degree in music, whether BA or BM, is a bachelor’s like any other and you would have access to many jobs, whether in music or not, and also access to any grad work, including law and medicine. In fact, music students as a group have had the highest rate of admission to med school, according to a statistic I read a few years ago. Granted, someone like your Dad would be happier with the BA. Maybe you could have a teacher speak with your Dad.</p>

<p>Many composition programs of all kinds include technology and music, electroacoustic composition, that kind of thing. I believe Hartt at U. Of Hartford has a program that could combine composing and production. UMass Lowell has a music production program, as does Northeastern in Boston. But a focus on this as a major may mean choosing between that and composing, at some schools. Others know more about this than I do.</p>

<p>You should know the difference between a BA, BM, double major, double degree and major/minor. [Double</a> Degrees | Peabody Conservatory](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html]Double”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html)</p>

<p>I cannot say whether Curtis is a good idea for you. You do not need years of experience w/composing to get into top conservatories. You have done a lot of studies in music and are proficient on the piano, which is good. Your composition portfolio would be the most important thing. At many conservatories, grades won’t matter that much, though they are more of a factor at music programs affiliated with universities.</p>

<p>You could look at SUNY schools, such as Purchase, or other state universities. Tuition is more affordable at SUNY’s than at many conservatories. Or you could apply for financial aid at academic programs: don’t know if you would qualify or if your family falls in the middle ground of not qualifying for aid but not being able to afford the tuition. Hartt might also be a possibility. BU, Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence and Ithaca would have more financial aid than freestanding conservatories, but your grades might be a problem. Most conservatories give merit aid but not really enough to cover the cost, with the exception of course of Curtis, which is tuition-free.</p>

<p>Another thing you could do is finish a year at a community or public college near you, or in the US, and then transfer in. Your grades from the college would supplant your high school GPA, at least as a priority. This could also save you money and take care of some gen ed requirements.</p>

<p>Definitely get a hold of a teacher. You can see a teacher when you need to. For a long time, my daughter went once a month, or even less frequently. It is worth the money and others are right in that this will gain more than composition help: you will get advice on your path and a recommendation as well. And, as I said, maybe someone who could talk with your Dad at some point.</p>

5

<p>The University of Missouri - Columbia offers two full tuition scholarships each year for composition majors. An audition is required on an instrument, but it sounds like you have that covered. Otherwise the procedure is basically the same as other composition programs. Submit a portfolio of at least three pieces and write an essay. If you are a finalist for the scholarship you must interview in person in February at the same as you do the instrumental audition. The composition faculty are from Eastman and it is a well funded program. Go to the Missouri SOM website and look under New Music Initiative. You also have to accepted by the University.</p>

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<p>I agree with the above comments regarding staying in Canada. My son (from the US) attends McGill and even with the international tuition, pays less than many of the US schools full tuition rate. I would also add that while McGill is competitive, my son did not have years of experience composing and his resume (for composing) was very thin. He had an extensive performance resume but decided fairly late in the game to go into composition. He had 7 months of private instruction prior to submitting his portfolio and attended a summer program.</p>

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<p>PianoEMT: you might want to reconsider the piano concerto as part of your portfolio. I think that most applicants will have smaller more manageable works in their portfolios. </p>

<p>Writing a piano concerto will eat up an extraordinary amount of time that could be better spent honing several shorter smaller works. Aside from the number of measures of music in a piano concerto (several times that of a typical work), the orchestration will take vast amounts of time. More importantly, finding a good orchestra and pianist to record the concerto will be either impossible or incredibly expensive. </p>

<p>You would probably be better off focusing your time and energy into several shorter works with smaller performing forces.</p>

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<p>I remember that my daughter had at least one 30 minute (string quartet) in her portfolio.</p>

<p>The length may not really matter since you usually cue the three to five minutes that you consider your best work, no matter how long the piece is. </p>

<p>Curtis specifically used to say that they prefer students who have written orchestral pieces. Most schools will accept some portion of the portfolio from Finale/Sibelius/MIDI: I don’t remember if Curtis wanted these orchestral pieces actually played!</p>

<p>Some schools may appreciate the ambition you are showing.</p>

<p>That said, it was frustrating trying to find musicians for yet another long piece my daughter wrote (35 minutes) the following summer (after acceptances). There was no context in which taking that much time in a student concert would have worked. I wondered if she might have more chances for performance with shorter works. She did end up using the string quartet in residence at her school, for a couple of readings of long pieces. In the past year or two, she has written more 10 minute pieces specifically geared to student concerts, and has therefore gotten all her pieces played.</p>

<p>So for admissions, length is fine, but for learning by having pieces played, it can help to have shorter pieces that have more chance of being played.</p>

<p>Most important really is to have really good musicians, if you are going to record a performance of a work. Not just for admissions but for yourself and your own learning. Sometimes musicians will volunteer or work for less pay for students who are still in high school.</p>

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<p>Unless the school requests or infers that it desires one or more large group pieces, I believe you are safe in submitting portfolio pieces for solo or small groups for undergraduate admission. Try to have no more than one solo piece. The quality of the applicant’s work is more important that the number and composition of instruments. It would be most useful if the pieces give signs of the composer’s own voice. Do the pieces indicate potential that can be cultivated at the particular school? What do the pieces say about the applicant’s grasp of theory? In the interview, the composer may be asked to defend some of the choices made in the compositions. How adept is the composer in talking about the work submitted? The schools are different in what they want to see from each applicant and as admission results have indicated, quite often at the interview stage it comes down to how the composition faculty and the applicant gel.</p>

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<p>Everyone has given you great advice – I will just add a bit of perspective as someone originally from Canada now living in the states with a son at the University of Michigan’s school of music.</p>

<p>A Canadian composer who at the time was encouraging my son to attend school in Canada felt that it was considerably easier for a talented composer to make a reasonable living in Canada compared to the US. The US life of an artist if things don’t line up very serendipitously can be tough. There is no national healthcare, comparatively little funding for the arts, and of course, intense competition among those with benefactors (eg young adults without a driving need to necessarily sustain themselves economically due to the socioeconomic status of parents) that can put a working kid at a disadvantage.</p>

<p>There is also the matter of immigration law and your status. It is exceedingly difficult to get and maintain residency status in the US – the process can literally take years. So after graduation (student visas end with your education) you often have to go back to Canada unless an employer is willing to undertake the considerable expense and headache of proving they can’t find a qualified US applicant for a job…which isn’t likely in starter level composition work, which likely as not is commission in nature. It would be simpler if your family were relocating to the US, because you could derive your visa status from them, but that’s not the case.</p>

<p>At the same time, you’ve then bypassed the opportunity to make connections in Canada while a student.</p>

<p>Then, there’s the financial albatross of student debt, which cannot be discharged even in bankruptcy in the US, and which is substantially higher than in Canada. For example, we are blessed that my son received generous scholarships, but the end cost even at instate rates and with a full tuition scholarship has been another $40,000 - $48,000 over four years.</p>

<p>You would not qualify for instate rates anywhere in the US. At Michigan, for example, that would mean a cost in the neighborhood of $200,000 without scholarship. but the real kicker is that as an international student, you would not be qualified to access US student loans, and Canadian student loans are not designed to cover these costs (since it’s so much cheaper in Canada.) On top of that, in order to get your student visa yo study, you also have to “prove” that you have the money BEFORE you’re allowed the visa to attend.</p>

<p>So there are myriad practical obstacles and to my mind a lack of compelling reason or means to study in the US. I strongly, strongly advise you to focus your efforts on Canadian schools, including UBC, for undergrad at least.</p>

<p>BTW, UBC has a great film Program as well and would be an excellent location for a composer who wants to score!</p>

<p>I’m sorry if the unvarnished picture I’ve painted depresses you and I will be the first to say there are always exceptiions, but I feel you need to seriously weigh the immigration and financial implications of your plan, and focus on the best way to reach your goals without burdening your future self! best wishes in your quest ;)</p>

11

<p>Good points to think about. I would add though that we know some Canadian students who did manage to stay on in the US, without too much difficulty. Some states (Massachusetts) have publicly funded health care (Romneycare!) and Obamacare may stay with us -and, of course, schools have health plans. SUNY Purchase is much more affordable than most schools, and there may be others. A young composer would most likely either go to grad school (in US or Canada, or perhaps UK, Germany or France) or work at something else while composing on the side: for commissions, competitions and so on.</p>

<p>It does seem that going to school in Canada is a good idea, and there are great possibilities, but if for some reason you still want to consider US schools, it is not impossible, but takes some care and thought.</p>

12

<p>^Obamacare has nothing to do with access to FREE healthcare or the cost of same in the US multi-payer system, just fyi. Health plans at school cost money.
How did the Canadian students who managed to stay on “without too much difficulty” do so? Eg. employer-secured visa? </p>

<p>At any rate, my comments were, and remain, in regard to this specific aspect of the post:

</p>

<p>There is really no way that any American option could begin to compete with a Canadian program for fiscal viability.</p>

13

<p>I don’t agree. Health care is free w/Romney care in MA if your income is below a certain level, and very cheap if it is below another level. If you qualify, public health plans can assist with the college plans. That may not be relevant in this case but I assumed that Obamacare was on the same model.</p>

<p>I totally agree that, from what the poster, you and others have said, that Canadian schools would be best, but didn’t want to shut out possibilities down here in the US entirely. Just in case, and also because that is what he/she asked about in the first place.</p>

14

<p>compmom: Just a question (a genuine one, not a rhetorical one): Were the Canadian students that managed to stay on in the US composition students or students in another discipline? </p>

<p>One small correction to the excellent advice given (and I hesitate to add it because it might be incorrectly construed as encouraging the OP to consider the US): a number of the border states have reciprocal agreements with Canadian provinces that give Canadian students in-state tuition rates at state universities. Very few Canadians or Americans take advantage of this because, without going into the details, it isn’t that wonderful a deal for most (unless there is a specific program offered across the border that isn’t offered in one’s home province or state).</p>

15

<p>Here is some info on staying in the US after college, which is a lot more difficult than I had heard from the friends cited ( three, actually, whose professions are on the list for the TN1 Visa: “Musician” is not.). Apologies for a hastily written post based on one of my kids’ group of friends!</p>

<p>[TN1</a> Visa<a href=“so%20it%20is%20doable%20with%20the%20professions%20listed”>/url</a></p>

<p>and some other sites, among many:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/1126729-can-i-stay-us-after-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/1126729-can-i-stay-us-after-college.html](<a href=“http://www.workpermit.com/us/investor_tn.htm]TN1”>US TN-1 Visa for Canadians | Workpermit.com)</a></p>

<p>[Visa</a> information for foreign students in the United States](<a href=“http://www.visaus.com/students.html]Visa”>Visa information for foreign students in the United States)</p>

<p>all kinds of law firms: [USA</a> Work Visa Permits](<a href=“http://www.canadausvisas.com/usa-immigration/usa-work-visa-permits]USA”>http://www.canadausvisas.com/usa-immigration/usa-work-visa-permits) for example</p>

<p>So, sometime, in a separate thread, it would also be interesting to know how hard it is for students who head north for undergrad, to stay in Canada.</p>

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<p>I hear that Canada is a little strange in terms of immigration in that on one hand it’s actually considered to be more difficult to immigrate to Canada than the U.S., but on the other, that changes rapidly in the case of individuals with advanced degrees. (Eg. unless a refuge, it’s difficult to immigrate to Canada WITHOUT a degree.) So a well-educated U.S. student has at least a decent shot at immigrating to Canada, while a well-educated Canadian student has about an equal shot with a uneducated non-english speaking immigrant without means in terms of the immigration green card lottery. (It’s an actual lottery, drawn randomly. I know folks who’ve been on this list for almost 10 years.) There are exceptions - persons of high net worth who are purchasing a business or will be self-employed can secure status more speedily, and certain types of “talented” individuals can access status pretty easily. For a top performing musician, artist, or widely published writer, it IS possible to secure the PR – but of course, few kids in undergrad programs meet those kind of ‘mature established career’ criteria.</p>

<p>There are limitations to the TN1 Visa (and it IS quota based, and often exhausted), and one has to be careful not to be out of the country or work for extensive periods in other countries or the visa can be easily rescinded, and you NEVER know from one year to the next if it will renew. (True of HB1 as well.) I spent 4 years as a NAFTA-based L1A, which is similar in status to the TN1 (but more paperwork), but applies in the case of business ownership of two companies in the US and Canada respectively. NAFTA-based permission to be in the US is a PITA, IMHO ;)</p>

<p>Conceptually, in my original post, I was referring to the sought-after Permanent Residency status, which would enable a composer to work freelance without any legal or double taxation issues, and enable same to also work abroad for short periods without losing status.</p>

<p>Status becomes important in terms of things such as medical insurance, life insurance, mortgages, car loans, estate matters, inheritance, trusts, etc. </p>

<p>As a small business owner and employer, I will say that I would be reluctant to go out of my way to hire a Canadian (even though I am a Canadian national) because it adds at least $15,000 - $20,000 to my acquisition cost of the employee by the time all the various lawyering is done. I know this first hand :wink: There’s no real shortage of candidates at the level of my particular need.</p>

<p>My fear for arts & music students is that unless they’re desirable to a large corporation with a robust HR / legal department, the field for competition in terms of employment would be stacked against them.</p>

<p>Back in Canada I had an associate who had gone to California for her undergrad and masters. Eventually she discovered that it was truly not possible to continue working and living in the US (as anything other than a nanny paid under the table) so she eventually returned to Canada and started a small business, but lost the benefit of the network she’d developed in California.</p>

<p>Another friend was “forced” as a child to accompany her mother to an ashram in the U.S., where she never achieved status, and ergo could never drive, have health coverage, etc. etc. (She came back to Canada for university and has remained :wink: )</p>

<p>These are the types of things worth considering. In my son’s case, he could have easily gone back to Canada for school, and was sorely tempted, (as were we, financially speaking) but Michigan was his first choice in his discipline for a number of reasons, and now he’s quite delighted with the contacts he’s made. He is fortunate in that he will be able to work ultimately in either country (AFTER becoming a citizen, that is, otherwise less than 6 mos. away to maintain even Permanent status…) </p>

<p>This is likely waaaay more detail than is useful to the original poster, but these are the kinds of things it’s better to find out about BEFORE making a major relocation to another country, even if it’s “only” for school.</p>

<p>I realize that academically, McGill, UT, Western and UBC are all “reaches” if they still consider his HS GPA, but am hopeful that being a mature student would mitigate that as a problem.</p>

<p>One other thing I forgot to add: Check out Humber College in Toronto. Not sure about composition but a friend’s son is in their contemporary program and sure did a lot of scoring for film! I’ve heard nothing but good things about the program, and since it’s college level as opposed to university, my hunch would be there might not be any issue over the HS GPA.</p>

<p>BTW, Vdad - that’s interesting to know re: in-state reciprocity! Without unduly encouraging anyone, what are the states that do that? (Michigan doesn’t, but probably should because boatloads of Ontario kids always want to go there :wink: Then again, maybe that’s WHY Michigan doesn’t do it!</p>

17

<p>I wonder if this can somehow be accessed by folks in the future, who are thinking about going to school in the US from Canada, or anywhere else. We seem to see questions about this from time to time. Perhaps the title of the thread will lead people to this post, via “search.”</p>

<p>I think this is very, very helpful information. Thank you!</p>

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<p>In my neighbourhood, Minnesota and North Dakota have (or have had) agreements with Manitoba and possibly Saskatchewan for in-state reciprocity. There may be other states and provinces with agreements. Even amongst guidance cousellors in these states and provinces, the agreements are not well-known. Only about 50 Minnesotans make use of the agreement to attend one of Manitoba’s fine universities and about the same number of Manitobans attend a Michigan university under the agreement; most attend the U of M in either jurisdiction (U of Manitoba and U of Minnesota).</p>

<p>I have had ex-students attend Humber for music and they have thrived there. The focus is on popular/jazz/commercial music, and I too don’t know anything about what it offers for composition. </p>

<p>Academic entrance requirements are usually somewhat more relaxed for music applicants at Canadian universities. Also, because of different Canadian grading standards, the OP’s academic record is not a weak as it sounds to American ears. Typically, in Canada 50% is a pass, and 80%+ is an A, so 70 to 79% is a B. Additionally, most Canadian universities do not look at a student’s entire transcipt. Many look only at 5 to 7 grade 12 courses and totally ignore all the other marks. I have certainly seen less that stellar students admitted to the music schools at places like McGill (provided they are excellent musicians); I’m not sure whether the OP would be in the running, though.</p>

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<p>(sigh, this stupid forum just deleted my message because I spent too much time writing it, and I got logged out. I get so furious when this happens).</p>

<p>Well there’s been a lot of important advice, and I’m surprised to see all the responses.</p>

<p>I am a good enough pianist that I could have applied as a piano performance major, had I prepared some pieces. I think I would have been at least as good to apply to UBC’s piano department. UBC is my local university, right next to my hometown of Vancouver, BC. </p>

<p>My piano concerto is only about 7 minutes long so I am not worried about its length or the effort required to complete it. Most of my other pieces will be in the 3-4 minute range. One is a four-part SATB chorale, another is a harp solo, and one is a piano solo piece. I am always about quality, not quantity or duration.</p>

<p>I won’t bother to try to get real performers to perform my works for recording purposes. Instead I’ll use virtual symphony plugins in my DAW so I can synthesize recordings instead. The quality and realism of these plugins is good enough, to my ears, to be sufficient for evaluating a score.</p>

<p>Because my dad makes between $65k-70k a year I am doubtful that I will qualify for sufficient financial aid, without his help. I used to live with my mom, who made about $19k a year. But I had to move in with my dad because my mom couldn’t keep up with her rent, and had to move to a new place which isn’t big enough for me to live with her. </p>

<p>I understand the complexity of the US immigration system and the competitive disadvantage I would face as a new immigrant and potential employee. My dream of working in hollywood is a long-term one. I think it might be best for me to develop my contacts and career in Canada. As a seasoned professional I would have a better chance of breaking in with a track record and demonstrated ability. It makes no sense for me to work a dead-end job as a 20-something while harboring a $50k plus loan. There’s a proper time and place for everything.</p>

<p>I have to stop writing now, I will update this post later with some more clarifications.</p>

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<p>Just a short note - while MIDI recordings are great - most programs would like to hear at least one piece played by acoustic instruments. Particularly the harp piece - as harpists often have a very difficult time playing pieces that look easy enough on the page - or via the computer. Showing that you understand the constraints of the instrument will be very helpful. And you should have no problem recording yourself playing the piano solo, yes?</p>