<p>How exactly do you perceive Stanford to be? Where I live in NJ, Stanford's reputation is on par with HYP. Stanford students generate the same wows as HYP students. To call it a lesser school simply because it's in the west and it's not an Ivy displays ignorance and misplaced arrogance. The quality of the accepted applicants are the same; accepted students to HYPS are at the top of their high schools and the top of a competitive national pool. East coasters may be more competitive, but how does that mean that they're academically superior to west coasters? Can you really validate such a sweeping claim? West coast students are seemingly laid-back, but that doesn't mean that they're lazy. It just means that they don't have such a cut-throat attitude towards academics and EC's. A laid-back attitude and success are not mutually exclusive. And what do you mean by HYP being a "grander form of education"? I've never heard such a pompous statement.</p>
<p>Sorry ForeverZero, let my rephrase. What I meant in my post is that students who go to HYP in my region receive more praise than students who go to Stanford. "Grander" as in HYP have a long history of dominance over academics and thus are more impressive down here in South Florida. Don't get me wrong. I did not mean to degrade Stanford's greatness-- we all know its an incredible school which many institutions should envy. </p>
<p>I offer my apologies if my post somehow flustered you. G'day!</p>
<p>Yale and Princeton are prestigious institutionspretty much a fact. However, Im curious to know the reasons and substance behind their lofty image. Yale and Princeton are not major research universities. They are lacking (comparatively) in both size and impact in their graduate and professional schools (with the exception of Yale Law). They are not usually the location of cutting edge research or new discoveries. I mean isnt the research done at graduate/professional schools the real deal of higher education? With their unbalanced emphasis on undergraduates and liberal arts education, shouldnt Yale and Princeton be associated with the likes of Williams and Amherst rather than Harvard and Stanford? Is their prestige no more than just a façade of aristocracy, elitism, and gothic architecture? (Oxford and Cambridge)</p>
<p>There are many who say Harvard is overrated (which I disagree with). But how about Yale and Princeton?</p>
<p>(Yale and Princeton are great schools. Im just asking why they deserve all that hype.)</p>
<p>Princeton and Yale are research universities. While I'm not very familiar with Yale's faculty or history, a quick look at Wikipedia mentions many professors with award-winning research and achievements, like John Nash, Andrew Wiles, and the like. Moreover, the schools are prestigious and good places for an education because of the quality of the current faculty -- Robert George, Brian Kernighan, Toni Morrison, Joyce Carol Oates, and so on.</p>
<p>Another reason why H, Y, and P are famous/prestigious is because they're among the oldest colleges in the U.S., and because they originally catered to only the </p>
<p>nordhaus - Actually, Princeton <em>is</em> a research university. Yale certainly is too. The fact that they focus on undergraduate education only means that their undergrads benefit from their opportunities more directly.</p>
<p>I can't comprehend as to why Berkeley never receives any love on these boards...I mean, sure, for in-state applicants it may not be the most "selective" school to get into, but try being accepted out-of-state! There are countless members on this board who were accepted to schools like Stanford, Yale, and PRINCETON but were not accepted to Berkeley. How do you explain that??? </p>
<p>Also, the fact that Berkeley is so big does not detract one bit from the quality of the UNDERGRADUATE education that you receive. As an incoming freshman, the class sizes for three out of my five classes are:
10, 11, and 15 respectively. And I'm not talking about seminar classes capped at a certain number either, nor am I talking about some obscure major. Two of the courses are history courses, and the other is a philosophy course. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the number of Nobel Prize winning professors, distinguished professors, members of the academy of arts and sciences, and countless other award-winning professors make up the Berkeley faculty. No other university, aside from Harvard perhaps, can boast such an impressive faculty. And in case you were wondering: NEWS FLASH- these professors teach undergrad courses! No other university encourages undergraduate research as much as Berkeley does, and almost no other school has the resources to let you work with THE BEST.</p>
<p>The University of California- Berkeley is one of the most preeminent universities in the nation, if not the world. The history that has taken place on our campus, whether it be sparking the free-speech and anti-war movements, to being pioneers in education, cannot be taken away from us- nor can it be glanced over and disregarded. If you are looking for a university that encourages free intellectual thought, community involvement, and a top notch academic program- The University of California- Berkeley, or "Cal" as we affectionately call it, is the best place to be.</p>
<p>slic - whoa, what prompted that? We love Berkeley. Besides it being a wonderful school, it gives some very hefty merit-based scholarships - unlike the ivies - which can be very tempting. But (at the risk of agitating you a little more) I have to say Princeton encourages UG research just as much, if not more.</p>
<p>Yes, I would agree with what mea said about Berkeley.</p>
<p>However, living in California and having some friends who go to Berkeley, some things stand out between HYS and Berkeley. For one, you have housing. At the three Ivy schools I mention, you'll be guaranteed housing in what is, most of the time, pretty swank dorm rooms; at Berkeley, meanwhile, you may pay the same amount of money to live in a rather dangerous area sharing an apartment with four friends. There's nothing wrong with the latter, but given a choice between living in Berkeley College (at Yale) and Berkeley, CA, I'd choose the former!</p>
<p>Second, small classes are good, but I think we need to ask a) what proportion of the classes are that small and b) who's teaching them. It won't do any good if those three classes you're in make up 5% of the course catalog. Nor do I think a seminar with a TA would be as great as a 50-person lecture with an awesome professor. Berkeley obviously has a really awesome faculty, but I think the question is whether, with so many more undergrads than Ivy League schools (with comparable faculties), if you have <em>comparatively small classes with comparatively good teachers</em>. Both my research when I considering applying to Berkeley, and my friends' experiences (one is a Comp Sci major, if that means anything) make me skeptical.</p>