<p>Since this is really getting lost and no attention in the national universities (main USNEWS thread), I thought I’d just post them here. </p>
<p>I guess my only questions are:
(1) What happened Skidmore?
(2) I knew Hollins was really struggling w/ money and contemplating intergrating, but 16 spots worth of trouble?
(3) Do Carleton and Bowdoin really deserve to be that high?</p>
<p>Oh, and congrats to Hampshire finally beginning to be recognized.</p>
<hr>
<h2>Top 100 Liberal Arts Colleges & Changes</h2>
<li>Williams College (MA) 0</li>
<li>Amherst College (MA) 0</li>
<li>Swarthmore College¶ 0</li>
<li>Wellesley College(MA) 0</li>
<li>Middlebury College(VT) 3</li>
<li>Carleton College(MN) -1</li>
<li>Bowdoin College(ME) -1</li>
<li>Pomona College(CA) -1</li>
<li>Haverford College¶ -1</li>
<li>Davidson College(NC) 0</li>
<li>Wesleyan University(CT) 2</li>
<li>Vassar College(NY) 1</li>
<li>Claremont McKenna College(CA) -2</li>
<li>Grinnell College(IA) 1</li>
<li>Harvey Mudd College(CA) 4</li>
<li>Colgate University(NY) -1</li>
<li>Hamilton College(NY) -2</li>
<li>Washington and Lee University(VA) -3</li>
<li>Smith College(MA) 0 </li>
<li>Colby College(ME) 0</li>
<li>Bryn Mawr College¶ 1</li>
<li>Oberlin College(OH) 1</li>
<li>Bates College(ME) -2</li>
<li>Macalester College(MN) -1 </li>
<li>Mount Holyoke College(MA) -1 </li>
<li>Barnard College(NY) 1</li>
<li>Colorado College 1</li>
<li>Scripps College(CA) 1 </li>
<li>Bucknell University¶ -2 </li>
<li>Trinity College(CT) -5</li>
<li>Lafayette College¶ -3 </li>
<li>Kenyon College(OH) 0</li>
<li>College of the Holy Cross(MA) 0</li>
<li>University of Richmond(VA) 0</li>
<li>SewaneeUniversity of the South(TN) 0</li>
<li>Bard College(NY) 3</li>
<li>Occidental College(CA) 5</li>
<li>Whitman College(WA) 0 </li>
<li>Connecticut College -3</li>
<li>Union College(NY) -3</li>
<li>Dickinson College¶ 4</li>
<li>Furman University(SC) 0</li>
<li>Franklin and Marshall College¶ -2</li>
<li>Centre College(KY) -3</li>
<li>Sarah Lawrence College(NY) 4</li>
<li>Rhodes College(TN) 0</li>
<li>Gettysburg College¶ -2</li>
<li>Skidmore College(NY) -7</li>
<li>DePauw University(IN) 1</li>
<li>Denison University(OH) 3</li>
<li>Wabash College(IN) 0</li>
<li>Pitzer College(CA) 2</li>
<li>Lawrence University(WI) 0</li>
<li>Reed College(OR) -5 </li>
<li>St. Olaf College(MN) 0</li>
<li>Wheaton College(MA) 11</li>
<li>Kalamazoo College(MI) -2</li>
<li>Southwestern University(TX) 4 </li>
<li>Wofford College(SC) -2</li>
<li>St. Lawrence University(NY) 4</li>
<li>Beloit College(WI) 0</li>
<li>Wheaton College(IL) -6</li>
<li>Illinois Wesleyan University -6</li>
<li>Agnes Scott College(GA) -6 </li>
<li>Earlham College(IN) 4</li>
<li>Willamette University(OR) -4</li>
<li>College of Wooster(OH) 1</li>
<li>Hobart and William Smith Col.(NY) -6</li>
<li>St. John’s University(MN) 0</li>
<li>Hendrix College(AR) 4</li>
<li>Ursinus College¶ 2</li>
<li>Drew University(NJ) -3</li>
<li>Thomas Aquinas College(CA) 15</li>
<li>Muhlenberg College¶ -1</li>
<li>Austin College(TX) -1</li>
<li>Spelman College(GA) -1</li>
<li>Birmingham - Southern College(AL) 14</li>
<li>Sweet Briar College(VA) -3</li>
<li>Gustavus Adolphus College(MN) -6</li>
<li>Knox College(IL) -6</li>
<li>Lewis and Clark College(OR) 2 </li>
<li>Millsaps College(MS) -1</li>
<li>Mills College(CA) -9</li>
<li>University of Puget Sound(WA) -1</li>
<li>Allegheny College¶ 6</li>
<li>Randolph - Macon Woman’s College(VA) -2</li>
<li>Virginia Military Institute * -13</li>
<li>Hanover College(IN) 8</li>
<li>Principia College(IL) -2</li>
<li>New College of Florida * -2 </li>
<li>Goucher College(MD) 3</li>
<li>Bennington College(VT) 9</li>
<li>Albion College(MI) -7</li>
<li>Hampshire College(MA) 13</li>
<li>St. Mary’s College of Maryland * -11</li>
<li>Hope College(MI) -1</li>
<li>College of St. Benedict(MN) -13</li>
<li>Ohio Wesleyan University 5</li>
<li>Transylvania University(KY) 9</li>
<li>Lake Forest College(IL) <em>NEW</em></li>
<li>Luther College(IA) <em>NEW</em></li>
<li>Coe College(IA) <em>NEW</em></li>
<li>Juniata College¶ 5</li>
<li>Washington and Jefferson Col.¶ -10</li>
<li>Susquehanna University¶ <em>NEW</em></li>
<li>Hampden - Sydney College(VA) 0 </li>
<li>Augustana College(IL) -10</li>
<li>Randolph - Macon College(VA) 0</li>
<li>Westmont College(CA) 0</li>
<li>Hollins University(VA) -16</li>
</ol>
<p>Biggest Risers:
73. Thomas Aquinas College(CA) 15
74. Birmingham - Southern College(AL) 14
91. Hampshire College(MA) 13
55. Wheaton College(MA) 11
91. Bennington College(VT) 9
86. Hanover College(IN) 8
95. Transylvania University(KY) 9
82. Allegheny College¶ 6
36. Occidental College(CA) 5
95. Ohio Wesleyan University 5
95. Juniata College¶ 5
14. Harvey Mudd College(CA) 4</p>
<p>Biggest Fallers:
104. Hollins University(VA) -16
95. College of St. Benedict(MN) -13
86. Virginia Military Institute * -13
95. St. Mary’s College of Maryland * -11
104. Augustana College(IL) -10
104. Washington and Jefferson Col.¶ -10
82. Mills College(CA) -9
91. Albion College(MI) -7
48. Skidmore College(NY) -7
61. Wheaton College(IL) -6
61. Illinois Wesleyan University -6
61. Agnes Scott College(GA) -6</p>
<p>I think Bowdoin and Carleton deserve to be that high. They have excellent curriculums and grad school placements.</p>
<p>Why did Agnes Scott College drop six points? Anybody know?</p>
<p>after williams, amherst, swarthmore, i believe that all LACs down to and including colby, (#20), are of equal quality. when looking at acceptance rates, entering SAT scores, student-teacher ratio, endowment figures, alumni giving rate, etc., all these schools are about even. yet W&L, Davidson, Grinnell, CMC continue to float around spots 10-15; i honestly believe that this is due to the fact that these schools are in the South, Midwest, West, and NOT the northeast. the fact that wesleyan and middlebury (bowdoin too) are located in new england gives them a higher peer assessment becuase many people in higher education (professors) simply can't take a school (however good it is) in the South/ Midwest as seriously as they can a school in New England. how silly. Once again, i acknowledge that AWS are better than the rest; but from spots 4-18 or 20, i don't think there remains any difference in the quality of the school. i pick on Wesleyan and Middlebury in particular becuase i visited them on the same trip i visited W&L and davidson and found that they were better than W&L, Davidson in NO ways excpet that they were located in the northeast. the student bodies and professors of the Southern schools seemed friendlier, the campuses were prettier, etc; yet, the new england schools will always have more respect. it kills me.</p>
<p>Schools like Stanford, Pomona, Carleton, Duke, UVA, UNC, UChicago, etc., haven't had such a hard time ascending to the top, and they're outside New England. A school's location, much like its history, is as much of part of the school as the bricks and mortar that form its buildings, or the minds that teach its students. I'm curious--why (in your opinion) do New England schools get more respect? I'd like to see the logic that holds together your argument...</p>
<p>I think Carleton and Bowdoin deserve to be as high as Middlebury. In a majority of years of these rankings, the former two have been above Midd.</p>
<p>I remember someone posted a quote by some official, can't remember whether from USNWR or some highly regarded college, that the difference between first down to forty-something is downright negligible and should be more than offset in a student's mind by concerns such as better match.</p>
<p>That is a bunch of PR garbage. The differences between a few spots SOMETIMES don't matter (is WUSTL really better than Brown, is Middlebury really better than Wesleyan?), but 1 to 40 is a big drop.</p>
<p>Really? Besides name prestige, I don't really see a Williams education trumping one at Bard or Whitman by much, if anything. How about Middlebury versus Reed?</p>
<p>One big difference between Reed and Middlebury is that Middlebury students tend to graduate. Some say that Reed's pitiful 6-year graduation rate (73%) is a result of stressful academics, while I've heard from others that students are simply dissatisfied with their experience. At Middlebury, 94% go on to graduate. Is it because Middlebury is less challenging or stressful? Because the students at Midd have better coping strategies? Because Midd students are more well rounded? I'm not sure. But it is a huge difference...</p>
<p>I think that nuance is more particular to Reed than Middlebury. The top 20 LACs probably all have graduation rate above 85%, so the difference to me is only the unique difference of Reed.</p>
<p>With Reed, if you don't finish that thesis then you don't graduate...Middlebury has no such requirement that can hold back your degree + that coupled with the level of academic rigor that causes many transfers make it unfair (to the point of rediculous) to compare Reed with Middlebury.</p>
<p>When it comes to Williams vs. Bard or Whitman, really look at graduate school enrollments, LSAT & MCAT avg, SATs, GPAs...there's a much different type of student graduating through these doors than Bard. After HYPS, Williams & Amherst are the top feeders for Yale & Harvard Law, it's highly unlikely you'll find a Bard student their next year.</p>
<p>Also, when it comes to Williams & Amherst in rankings, I'm not sure of any other LACs (maybe Grinell & Wellesley) with endowments over $1 billion dollars.</p>
<p>Bates should be higher, I think in 17-19 range.</p>
<p>From this thread ranking by SAT scores of incoming students- Bates is indeed higher than MIddlebury</p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=227261%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=227261</a>
Middle 50% SAT Scores of Students
Entering The Top LACs in 2005</p>
<p>HarveyMudd V 670 760 M 760 800 avg 748
Amherst V 670 780 M 680 780 avg 728
Pomona V 690 770 M 690 760 avg 728
Swarthmore V 680 770 M 670 760 avg 720
Williams V 670 770 M 670 760 avg 718
Carleton V 660 760 M 660 740 avg 705
Bowdoin V 660 740 M 660 730 avg 698
Vassar V 680 730 M 660 720 avg 698
Wellesley V 660 750 M 650 730 avg 698
Wesleyan V 650 750 M 650 740 avg 698
ClaremontMcKenna V 630 760 M 640 750 avg 695
Grinnell V 640 750 M 640 750 avg 695
WashingtonAndLee V 660 730 M 660 720 avg 693
Haverford V 640 740 M 650 730 avg 690
Reed V 660 760 M 620 710 avg 688
Barnard V 650 740 M 640 710 avg 685
Oberlin V 650 750 M 620 710 avg 683
Davidson V 640 730 M 640 710 avg 680
Colby V 640 720 M 640 710 avg 678
Colgate V 630 710 M 650 720 avg 678
Hamilton V 630 720 M 640 720 avg 678
Macalester V 630 740 M 630 710 avg 678
Bates V 640 710 M 640 710 avg 675
Middlebury V 620 710 M 640 690 avg 665
ConnCollege V 630 700 M 620 690 avg 660
MountHolyoke V 620 710 M 610 690 avg 658
Trinity V 610 700 M 610 700 avg 655
BrynMawr V 620 720 M 590 680 avg 653
Smith V 580 710 M 570 670 avg 633</p>
<p>I also just read an interesting exhange Re: MIddlebury & Reed regarding a new college freshman at one school, whose parent is the director of admissions at the other school ;)</p>
<p>Yeah but its not that simple. Factors that might be different including/ not including those who decided to not submit scores and enrolled vs. applying students. Middlebury has stronger scores. I'm too lazy to prove it, but I am sure anyone who does will concur.</p>
<p>Dwincho, a Williams education will trump a bard one in MANY ways. Starting with the academics, to the quality of your peers (which becomes your network), grad placement, job placement, etc a Williams education is far ahead in every way. Yes, these things matter, going to college is much more than just your classes. Even if it were just classes, there's a difference.</p>
<p>Yeah, I read that blog too (the one that mentions Clagett's son). I wonder if her husband knows that...</p>
<p>Williams has a more academic culture, which reflects its superior graduate school placement, Bard a more creative ambiance, with many more alumni involved in the arts.</p>
<p>Slipper let slide:</p>
<br>
<p>Factors that might be different including/ not including those who decided to not submit scores and enrolled vs. applying students. <</p>
<br>
<p>All things of which have accrued to Middlebury's benefit in years past. This is the first year they've actually reported ALL scores submitted by <em>matriculating</em> students and the results are significantly lower than the stats reported over the twenty years.</p>
<p>Now, if only someone at USNews could pressure Bowdoin into doing the same thing.</p>
<p>According to PR, Middlebury avg SAT is 1349 and Bates is 1342, although this includes all students at Midd vs probably only those submitting scores at Bates; so the spread is probably higher. I don't think the difference is that great though; at Hamilton switching to optional SAT seemed to raise the SAT avg ~ 20 points from the year before.</p>