2007 USNEWS Rankings!

College Search & Selection
701

<p>Bananainpyjamas:</p>

<p>I agree with your post, but "A school can have an outstanding undergraduate program without an uber-elite grad program, or even a grad program at all. The LACs are good examples of this, as are undergraduate-focused universities like Dartmouth and Princeton."</p>

<p>Why do people always mention Princeton as an example of this? Princeton has one of the most uber-elite grad programs in the world, just a notch below Berkeley-Stanford-Harvard-Cambridge.</p>

<p>the_prestige:</p>

<p>UVA > Emory and Vandy?</p>

<p>How a school attracts outstanding classes is irrelevant. Duke has regional bias. Okay. Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth and Cornell have a name-brand sports conference. </p>

<p>"Frankly, if Duke had one or two more schools that provided meaningful competition in their region - i'd be more than willing to bet that Duke's number would drop pretty significantly."</p>

<p>If HYP doubled their class sizes, the other ivies would shrivel. None of this is going to happen, so what does this have to do with actual quality at the schools?</p>

702

<p>
[quote]
I'd draw the line below Virginia since the Ivies more than likely trumps Duke in the DC/MD/VA metropolitan area,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm from that area and that doesn't jive with my experience at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Furthermore the Ivies carry stronger reputations internationally as well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Some of them, yes, but not all. International reputation is a sticky thing to argue anyways, since schools like CMU are more highly regarded than those like Dartmouth in many Asian countries, thanks to a regional bias in favor of engineering.</p>

<p>Daniel - Sorry, I should've phrased that as "grad/professional" programs (the latter of which Princeton does not have to the same extent as many peers), although my point about a relatively stronger focus on undergraduate studies at Princeton still stands.</p>

703

<p>"don't forget porsche is also the guy who ranked berkeley above columbia/penn/dartmouth/brown and ranked michigan equal to the aforementioned schools and above duke/northwestern/wustl"</p>

<p>lol, this guy is such an idiot. berekely is above columbia/penn/dartmouth/brown. stop smoking bong boy.</p>

<p>btw duke is indeed way below columbia/penn/dartmouth/brwon.
duke is not an ivy idiot. it's in the same league as uva</p>

704

<p>
[quote]
stop smoking bong boy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think you should take your own advice.</p>

705

<p>actually most of duke students are ivy-rejects, even though they will never admit that in public. sad but true</p>

706

<p>A funny little thing called actual data (i.e. cross-admit statistics) doesn't agree with you. Nice try though.</p>

707

<p>Well said, The_Prestige,
As for Duke winning students from Columbia, Penn or Cornell, I don't believe that. From what I recall, the yield rates for these schools were pretty high, moreso I guess at Columbia (65%) and I don't think the students are turning down CU for Duke in huge numbers. From these three campuses, Cornell's campus environment is most similar to Duke's--both being in rurul areas. Therefore, I can see a student who is choosing between Cornell and Duke to go either way if they are looking for a sprawling beautiful campus.<br>
I spent sometime in the DC area, and while Duke has great name recognition, the ivy-league mystique still carries a lot of weight in the power broker scene. I live in NYC and generally it is all about ivy. Mind you, Duke is very well regarded, a notch after Stanford, but given the predominance of grads from ivy-league schools in this area, you have this reality. Not to say you wont find many people from Duke at Goldman, but CPC are looked upon more favorably because of the strong alumni connections. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.print2webcorp.com/news/whiteplains/ScarsdaleMagazine/20060501/p63.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.print2webcorp.com/news/whiteplains/ScarsdaleMagazine/20060501/p63.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

708

<p>
[quote]
I'm from that area and that doesn't jive with my experience at all.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>bananainpyjamas, </p>

<p>are you suggesting that the elite magnate schools such as Thomas Jefferson / top privates such as St. Alban's, Episcopal, etc. all aspire to send the majority of their highest achieving grads to Duke at the expense of the Ivies? </p>

<p>with all due respect, my experience with people (caveat: high achievers from) the Nova / DC / MD area doesn't jibe with that.</p>

709

<p>Manfredman,
Since apparently you are deficient in your reading skills (no need for critical reading here), I did not have Berkeley above Columbia. Try reading this again. If you can't read, I can send an audio version to your email address.</p>

<p>1 - Harvard (without a doubt, the most prestigious and powerful university in the world)
2 - Yale (the second most)
3 - Princeton/Stanford
5 - MIT/Caltech (I don't see these two really be comparable to the others on the list because they are so highly specialized)
7 - Columbia/Cal/Chicago/Cornell
11 - Penn/Dartmouth
13 - Brown/Michigan/VA/Duke
17 - Northwestern/Hopkins
19 - BC/ND/G-Town
22 - Rice/Vandy/Emory</p>

710

<p>the_prestige - At the expense of HYP? No. But I'm a recent Jefferson alum and Duke won its fair share of cross-admits with other Ivies in my class. The very best Jefferson students aspire to HYPSMC. The Ivies and some other elites (Duke included) get the next tier of students.</p>

<p>That is of course excluding the UVA-factor, which draws away even HYPSM cross-admits.</p>

<p>
[quote]
As for Duke winning students from Columbia, Penn or Cornell, I don't believe that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I see posting the cross-admit stats would be wasted here. Isn't it fun when you can just not believe anything that doesn't line up with your own preconceived notions of how things should work?</p>

711

<p>"Duke is very well regarded, a notch after Stanford"</p>

<p>Please send me some of the crack you northeasterners smoke. Who would rate Duke above Stanford? Who would, by implication, rate Cornell above Stanford? Or Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia or Penn above Stanford? Are there really people in New England and the Mid Atlantic who hold Cornell in higher esteem than Stanford because it's Ivy League?</p>

712

<p>lol, porsche yeah ur list looks good to me...</p>

<p>Blinded by the light......:rolleyes:</p>

713

<p>
[quote]
The Ivies and some other elites (Duke included) get the next tier of students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I see (congrats btw) - but this almost helps my initial claim rather than hurts it. by just looking at TJ, you are effectively saying that the non-HYP Ivies at a minimum "holds its own" vs. Duke - even though the Nova area is squarely in Duke's territory. Remember, I said "more than likely" in my initial post.</p>

714

<p>People are still confusing ivy for HYP. Non-HYP Ivy prestige falls off precipitously five feet outside of the mid atlantic states. There are more people from my region going to Yale than to non-HYP Ivy combined.</p>

715

<p>But it was...
Blinded through the light, revved on like a two, another runner in the night
Blinded through the light, revved on like a two, another runner in the night</p>

<p>moving on.... my revised graduate school rankings are:</p>

<p>1) Harvard - Berkeley
2) Stanford, MIT
3) Columbia, Caltech,Chicago
4) Penn(Wharton), JHU (Medicine), Kellogg, Yale (Law), UMich/UVA/UCLA, Emory, Georgetown</p>

716

<p>Pretty good. Yale needs to move up one rank and Princeton needs to be in category 2. UVA, Emory and GTown need to rank lower.</p>

717

<p>hahahaha....
really what are you guys doing?
fighting for the prestige level of schools in 7-15 ranking range?
what effect would have this on our later lives? </p>

<p>I mean are you going to struggle in making money or marrying someone or living comfortably because you graduated from Duke or Northwestern, not Brown, Columbia, or Cornell? Not likely. </p>

<p>Theres no doubt that whether it's Duke, Brown, Cornell, Northwestern or Hopkins, people who attended there are way above average American person and thus are much more likely to succeed. </p>

<p>Perhaps it is laughable to say that Univ of Maryland fare better than ivies.
But what problem is there is saying that schools like Duke and Chicago are equal or better to ivies? I mean, the differences are trivial, right? Even if you compare HYP grads and grads of schools like Duke, NU, Chicago, JHU, the overall differences WON'T BE THAT SIGNIFICANT. And the difference would be even less smaller if you compare lesser ivies and those non-ivy but "iviysh" schools. </p>

<p>folks, I got into Brown, Cornell and Columbia, but am going to JHU, (which is non-ivy) for an opportunity to study international relations at SAIS. Dont get me wrong, because I got virtually same fin-aid packages from all schools I got into. Other schools I got into are, G-town, Chicago, Maryland and William and<br>
Mary. </p>

<p>If you attend one of top 15 schools or so, I think you are just fine. It seems to me, a bit stupid to fight over such trivial differences. I am from a competitive suburban school districts in MD, VA area, and even to me, the difference of preference between schools like Brown and UPenn and non-ivys such as Duke and Northwestern are trivial. Just do well in your school people...</p>

<p>oh by the way, where do you guys go college or went college? just curious.</p>

718

<p>Manfredman//</p>

<p>Is that JHU's overall grad school ranking or just medicine? I think if it's just medicine, then it should be on par with Harvard......and same with UPenn business and Yale law.</p>

719

<p>john hopkins:</p>

<p>yeah, i deliberately put jhu(medicine), penn(wharton), yale (law) into number 4 cuz these are only respectable graduate programs in the aforementioned schools, unlike H, berks, that have a wide range of exellent graduate progarms.</p>

<p>For example;
H - medicine, law, HBS, Kennedy School, L& S
B - law, Business, L&S, engineering</p>

720

<p>well, according to study through a joint effort of harvard, upenn, and boston university, duke does not beat any ivy in the cross admit battles.</p>

<p>the top 25 list of most preferred school by students runs like this</p>

<ol>
<li>harvard</li>
<li>yale</li>
<li>stanford</li>
<li>caltech</li>
<li>mit</li>
<li>princeton</li>
<li>brown</li>
<li>columbia</li>
<li>amherst</li>
<li>dartmouth</li>
<li>wellesley</li>
<li>upenn</li>
<li>notre dame</li>
<li>swarthmore</li>
<li>cornell</li>
<li>georgetown</li>
<li>rice</li>
<li>williams</li>
<li>duke</li>
<li>virginia</li>
<li>northwestern</li>
<li>pomona</li>
<li>berkeley</li>
<li>georgia tech</li>
<li>middlebury</li>
</ol>

<p>check it out - its very interesting.</p>

<p><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>