<p>in the entire top 20, only a few schools have sat medians below 1400</p>
<p>JHU, Cornell, Emory, Vandy, and Notre Dame....hmmm.</p>
<p>why don't scores match up between college board and the rankings..........some notables are ND, Penn, and Duke. Now that Duke's median doesn't look to be a 1460+, it looks like I have a chance for Duke ED...:)</p>
<p>The listing above is a bit misleading without the number rank. For example, Cornell and Wash U are ranked together at 12, and Hopkins, Northwestern and Brown are ranked together at 14.</p>
<p>calikid,
Be a little careful in concluding that many students are getting into JHU, Cornell, Emory, Vanderbilt, and Notre Dame with less than 1400. There usually are extenuating circumstances. Each has several undergrad colleges and the acceptance rates and average SATs at each can vary a lot. Two come quickly to mind: Cornell and Vanderbilt which each easily have 1400+ for their A&S students, but other colleges (such as ILR at Cornell or Music and Education at Vandy) will typically have lower average levels. There is also the Oxford college program affiliated with Emory and this takes students with lesser stats and I am not sure if they are included in Emory's average reported numbers. Knowing which undergraduate college you are talking about is important as you decide how to apply to a university.</p>
<p>gabriellah,
Look a little closer. The first number is the USN rank, then the school name and then the Selectivity rank, eg, Johns Hopkins is ranked 14th, but its selectivity ranking is 24th.</p>
<p>Interesting, too, that according to the Hopkins website, the mid 50% for admits was 1440. Is the mid 50 % in usnwr reflective of admits, or those attending?</p>
<p>Hawkette...Yes, I see that. Thanks, tho'.</p>
<p>US News is for ENROLLED. However, it usually matches up with the data provided by collegeboard (that has stats for Enrolled). However, some of them don't match up...Duke (higher on collegeboard), Penn (lower on collegeboard), Notre Dame (MUch lower on collegeboard) to name a few.</p>
<p>on collegeboard, notre dame is listed at 1230-1460 and us news has it MUCH higher.</p>
<p>Duke is listed 1380-1550 and on the rankings 1350-1540. These are notable distinctions!</p>
<p>Now I see what you are referring to, Hawkette. I was actually responding to the listing posted by whothebelltolls.</p>
<p>Thanks hawkette for the info!!</p>
<p>Here are the top 20 national universities and change in PA score..</p>
<p>POSITIVE CHANGE
Stanford (+1)
UPenn (+1)
Columbia (+1)
University of Chicago (+1)
Brown (+1)
JHU (+2)
Notre Dame (+1)</p>
<p>0 CHANGE
Princeton
Harvard
Yale
Caltech
Duke
Dartmouth
WUSTL
Cornell
Northwestern
Emory</p>
<p>NEGATIVE CHANGE
MIT (-1)
Rice (-1)
Vanderbilt (-1)</p>
<p>When one really looks at these rankings.. the changes are less dramatic than one would think. Biggest change is JHU going up 2 points.. makes sense especially since JHU's acceptance rate went down 8 points,</p>
<p>It's time for "Risers and Fallers"!!!</p>
<p>Risers:
33 University of NebraskaLincoln *
13 SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry *
9 University of Arizona *
8 University of Oregon *
6 Baylor University (TX)</p>
<p>Fallers:
-10 Clark University (MA)
-10 University of Kentucky *
-9 Brigham Young UniversityProvo (UT)
-9 University of San Diego
-8 Auburn University (AL) *
-8 Howard University (DC)
-8 University of MissouriRolla *
-8 University of Tennessee *
-8 University of Vermont *
-8 Yeshiva University (NY)
-8 University of CaliforniaRiverside *
-7 Miami UniversityOxford (OH) *
-7 Ohio University *
-7 University of Dayton (OH)
-6 Tulane University (LA)
-6 Washington State University *</p>
<p>*Note - only did rise/fall for schools moving +/- 5 spots</p>
<p>Best Undergraduate Business Programs
Rank/School Peer
assessment
score
( 5.0 = highest)
1. University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.9
2. Massachusetts Inst. of Technology (Sloan) 4.7
3. University of California–Berkeley (Haas) * 4.5
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor * 4.5
5. New York University (Stern) 4.3
5. U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler) * 4.3
7. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 4.2
7. University of Texas–Austin (McCombs) * 4.2
9. Univ. of Southern California (Marshall) 4.1
9. University of Virginia (McIntire) * 4.1
11. Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley) * 4.0
12. Cornell University (NY) 3.9
12. Emory University (Goizueta) (GA) 3.9
12. Ohio State University–Columbus (Fisher) * 3.9
12. U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign * 3.9
12. Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison * 3.9
12. Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 3.9
18. Pennsylvania State U.–University Park (Smeal) * 3.8
18. Univ. of Minnesota–Twin Cities (Carlson) * 3.8
18. University of Notre Dame (IN) 3.8
21. Georgetown University (McDonough) (DC) 3.7
21. Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette (Krannert) (IN)* 3.7
21. University of Arizona (Eller) * 3.7
21. Univ. of Maryland–College Park (Smith) * 3.7
25. Arizona State University (Carey) * 3.6
25. University of Washington * 3.6
27. Babson College (MA) 3.5
27. Boston College (Carroll) 3.5
27. Michigan State University (Broad) * 3.5
27. University of Florida (Warrington) * 3.5
27. University of Georgia (Terry) * 3.5
27. Wake Forest University (Calloway) (NC) 3.5
33. Case Western Reserve Univ. (Weatherhead) (OH) 3.4
33. Georgia Institute of Technology * 3.4
33. Southern Methodist University (Cox) (TX) 3.4
33. Texas A&M Univ.–College Station (Mays) * 3.4
33. University of Iowa (Tippie) * 3.4
38. Boston University 3.3
38. Brigham Young Univ.–Provo (Marriott) (UT) 3.3
38. University of Pittsburgh * 3.3
41. CUNY–Baruch College (Zicklin) * 3.2
41. George Washington University (DC) 3.2
41. Syracuse University (Whitman) (NY) 3.2
41. University of Arkansas (Walton) * 3.2
41. University of Colorado–Boulder * 3.2
41. Univ. of South Carolina–Columbia (Moore) * 3.2
41. Virginia Tech (Pamplin) * 3.2
48. Auburn University (AL)* 3.1
48. Bentley College (MA) 3.1
48. College of William and Mary (VA)* 3.1
48. Florida State University * 3.1
48. Georgia State University (Robinson) * 3.1
48. Miami University–Oxford (Farmer) (OH)* 3.1
48. Santa Clara University (Leavey) (CA) 3.1
48. Tulane University (Freeman) (LA) 3.1
48. University of Alabama (Culverhouse) * 3.1
48. Univ. of Missouri–Columbia * 3.1
58. Baylor University (Hankamer) (TX) 3.0
58. Pepperdine University (Graziadio) (CA) 3.0
58. Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. (Lally) (NY) 3.0
58. University of Connecticut * 3.0
58. University of Illinois–Chicago * 3.0
58. University of Kansas * 3.0
58. University of Kentucky (Gatton) * 3.0
58. Univ. of Massachusetts–Amherst (Isenberg) * 3.0
58. Univ. of Nebraska–Lincoln * 3.0
58. University of Oklahoma (Price) * 3.0
58. University of Oregon (Lundquist) * 3.0
58. University of Tennessee * 3.0
58. University of Utah (Eccles) * 3.0
71. Clemson University (SC)* 2.9
71. Fordham University (NY) 2.9
71. Louisiana State U.–Baton Rouge (Ourso) * 2.9
71. North Carolina State U.–Raleigh * 2.9
71. Northeastern University (MA) 2.9
71. San Diego State University * 2.9
71. Temple University (Fox) (PA)* 2.9
71. University at Buffalo–SUNY * 2.9
71. University of Denver (Daniels) 2.9
71. University of Miami (FL) 2.9
71. University of Richmond (Robins) (VA) 2.9
71. Villanova University (PA) 2.9
83. American University (Kogod) (DC) 2.8
83. DePaul University (IL) 2.8
83. Iowa State University * 2.8
83. Lehigh University (PA) 2.8
83. Loyola University Chicago 2.8
83. Marquette University (WI) 2.8
83. Oklahoma State University * 2.8
83. Rochester Inst. of Technology (NY) 2.8
83. Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey–New Brunswick (NJ)* 2.8
83. Texas Christian University (Neeley) 2.8
83. United States Air Force Acad. (CO)* 2.8
83. University of Alabama–Birmingham * 2.8
83. Univ. of California–Riverside * 2.8
83. University of Delaware * 2.8
83. University of Louisville (KY)* 2.8
83. University of San Diego 2.8
99. Colorado State University * 2.7
99. George Mason University (VA)* 2.7
99. James Madison University (VA)* 2.7
99. Kansas State University * 2.7
99. Loyola Marymount University (CA) 2.7
99. Seton Hall University (Stillman) (NJ) 2.7
99. St. Louis University 2.7
99. Texas Tech University (Rawls) * 2.7
99. University of Cincinnati * 2.7
99. University of Houston (Bauer) * 2.7
99. University of Mississippi * 2.7
99. U. of North Carolina–Charlotte (Belk) * 2.7
99. University of San Francisco (McLaren) 2.7
99. University of Texas–Dallas * 2.7
99. Washington State University * 2.7
114. Ball State University (IN)* 2.6
114. Creighton University (NE) 2.6
114. Drexel University (LeBow) (PA) 2.6
114. Gonzaga University (WA) 2.6
114. Ohio University * 2.6
114. Oregon State University * 2.6
114. Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey–Newark (NJ)* 2.6
114. St. Joseph's University (Haub) (PA) 2.6
114. Univ. of Colo.–Colorado Springs * 2.6
114. University of Memphis (Fogelman) * 2.6
114. University of New Mexico (Anderson) * 2.6
114. Univ. of Wisconsin–Milwaukee * 2.6
126. California State U.–Los Angeles * 2.5
126. Cal Poly–San Luis Obispo * 2.5
126. Fairfield University (CT) 2.5
126. Kennesaw State University (Coles) (GA)* 2.5
126. Loyola College in Maryland (Sellinger) 2.5
126. Northern Illinois University * 2.5
126. Pace University (Lubin) (NY) 2.5
126. San Jose State University (CA)* 2.5
126. Seattle University (Albers) 2.5
126. Southern Illinois U.–Carbondale * 2.5
126. SUNY–Albany * 2.5
126. SUNY–Binghamton * 2.5
126. University of Alabama–Huntsville * 2.5
126. University of Central Florida * 2.5
126. U. of Colo.–Denver and Health Sci. Center * 2.5
126. University of Dayton (OH) 2.5
126. University of Nevada–Las Vegas * 2.5
126. U. of North Carolina–Greensboro (Bryan) * 2.5
126. University of Northern Colorado (Monfort) * 2.5
126. University of Rhode Island * 2.5
126. University of Texas–Arlington * 2.5
126. University of Vermont * 2.5
126. Virginia Commonwealth University * 2.5
126. Washington and Lee University (VA) 2.5
126. West Virginia University * 2.5</p>
<p>Changes in Peer Assessment (someone posted this earlier and it was wrong)</p>
<p>0.1 University of California—Berkeley *
0.1 University of California—Davis *
0.1 University of Georgia *
0.1 University of Kansas *
0.1 University of Southern California
0.1 University of Nebraska—Lincoln *</p>
<p>-0.1 Clark University (MA)
-0.1 College of William and Mary (VA) *
-0.1 Colorado State University *
-0.1 Dartmouth College (NH)
-0.1 Duke University (NC)
-0.1 Florida State University *
-0.1 Fordham University (NY)
-0.1 George Washington University (DC)
-0.1 Georgetown University (DC)
-0.1 Indiana University—Bloomington *
-0.1 Iowa State University *
-0.1 Miami University—Oxford (OH) *
-0.1 New Jersey Institute of Technology *
-0.1 Northeastern University (MA)
-0.1 Northwestern University (IL)
-0.1 Ohio University *
-0.1 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY)
-0.1 Rice University (TX)
-0.1 Southern Methodist University (TX)
-0.1 St. Louis University
-0.1 Tufts University (MA)
-0.1 Tulane University (LA)
-0.1 University of Alabama *
-0.1 University of Chicago
-0.1 University of Delaware *
-0.1 University of Pittsburgh *
-0.1 University of San Diego
-0.1 University of Tennessee *
-0.1 University of Vermont *
-0.1 Vanderbilt University (TN)
-0.1 Yale University (CT)
-0.1 University of Wisconsin—Madison *
-0.1 University of South Carolina—Columbia *
-0.1 University of Minnesota—Twin Cities *
-0.1 University of Maryland—College Park *
-0.1 University of California—Los Angeles *</p>
<p>-0.2 Brigham Young University—Provo (UT)
-0.2 Yeshiva University (NY)</p>
<p>coolatroopa,
I get different results. Here is what I have:</p>
<p>USN rank, School, PA score</p>
<p>2007 Rankings</p>
<p>1 Princeton 4.9
2 Harvard 4.9
3 Yale 4.9
4 Cal Tech 4.7
4 Stanford 4.9
4 MIT 4.9
7 U Penn 4.5
8 Duke 4.5
9 U Chicago 4.7
9 Dartmouth 4.4
9 Columbia 4.6
12 Wash U StL 4.1
12 Cornell 4.6
14 Northwestern 4.4
15 Brown 4.4
16 J Hopkins 4.6
17 Rice 4.1
18 Emory 4
18 Vanderbilt 4.1
20 Notre Dame 3.9</p>
<p>2008 Rankings</p>
<p>1 Princeton , 4.9
2 Harvard , 4.9
3 Yale , 4.8
4 Stanford , 4.9
5 U Penn , 4.5
5 Caltech , 4.7
7 MIT , 4.9
8 Duke , 4.4
9 Columbia , 4.6
9 U Chicago , 4.6
11 Dartmouth , 4.3
12 Wash U , 4.1
12 Cornell , 4.6
14 Brown , 4.4
14 Northwestern , 4.3
14 Johns Hopkins , 4.6
17 Rice , 4
17 Emory , 4
19 Vanderbilt , 4
19 Notre Dame , 3.9</p>
<p>And now the changes year to year</p>
<p>School, Ranking Change, PA score change</p>
<p>Princeton , 0 , 0
Harvard , 0 , 0
Yale , 0 , -0.1
Cal Tech , -1 , 0
Stanford , 0 , 0
MIT , -3 , 0
U Penn , 2 , 0
Duke , 0 , -0.1
U Chicago , 0 , -0.1
Dartmouth , -2 , -0.1
Columbia , 0 , 0
Wash U StL , 0 , 0
Cornell , 0 , 0
Northwestern , 0 , 0
Brown , 1 , 0
J Hopkins , 2 , 0
Rice , 0 , -0.1
Emory , 1 , 0
Vanderbilt , -1 , -0.1
Notre Dame , 1 , 0</p>
<p>No school in the Top 20 saw a rise in PA score and 6 saw a decline. The big ranking loser was MIT dropping from a tie for 4th to 7th. Also, Dartmouth fell two spots (#9 to #11) and JHU gained two spots (#16 to #14).</p>
<p>Hawkette, you gotta learn how to utilize Excel, rather than tying all of that in.</p>
<p>NU fell by .1 as you noted....</p>
<p>Just wondering how JHU rised so much.
Someone from my school got in with a 1940 on SATI D:</p>
<p>A cautionary tale for everyone obsessed by the small differences among schools that affect ranking...Some years back, when my oldest child was deciding where to attend, her final decision came down to her favorites, which were Vassar and Weslyan. She really loved Vassar, and very much liked many things about Weslyan. She was not the big university type, abhorred anything to do with fraternity/sorority, and was looking for something "artsy" that fit her personality. Consequently, she immediately made the decision to eliminate the ivies, much to the consternation of her college advisor who knew that Princeton was interested, not only because of her strong academics, but because she was a musical theater performer, and it was apparently looking for kids to fill that niche. She went to visit Princeton, and hated what she perceived to be a very male oriented, "good-old-boy" kind of attitude. She also hated Yale, finding something about it overwhelming. Just not for her.
On one day, we went back and forth with her to Vassar, Weslyan, and then back again to each. When she was on Vassar, I could see that she felt a strong sense of belonging, that I did not see at Weslyan. It seemed that since, at the time, Vassar was ranked # 13, behind Weslyan's # 6, I believe, that her college advisor was suggesting that she pick Weslyan over Vassar. So she was torn. We convinced her to go with what she truly wanted, and not be affected by "the list," which frankly, we were totally unimpressed by back then. We knew that all of the schools she was looking at were topnotch, and that was all we basically cared about, except for her happiness. Ultimately she did just that, and went to Vassar. It is important to note that Vassar and Weslyan are ranked together now, at #11. Why? It shows the folly of getting too caught up in a particular year's rankings. In fact, Middlebury was ranked far lower a few years back, as well, as was Penn. The cautionary message? Go with your heart, and really don't worry about the rankings when you are really splitting hairs amongst the top group. All of these schools are standouts, and the one you pick today because of its apparent rank, may not be ranked as such in a few years. And you may be sorry if you choose # 5 over #10 if you wind up not enjoying the experience. A few years from now, number 10 could be the new #5.
By now you all know how much I love Hopkins. I guess that is because my child is so happy there, and because the administration is so extremely wonderful. As I mentioned before, he had Ivy options, as well as other excellent choices. But when he walked onto Hopkins, much like my daughter and Vassar, he knew that was where he belonged. And yes, peer assessment is important to me...but in a broad sense, not in a specific sense. The PA does not have to be the highest, but the professional assessment tells me something about the academic atmosphere at the schools, that I could not possibly assess on my own.
So the moral of this tale is to go with your hearts, and do not get caught up with the minutia. The bottom line is will you be happy? Will you fit in academically and socially? And, of course, are you comfortable with the tuition costs? Each and every one of these schools is outstanding.</p>
<p>Coola...has Hopkins moved up to a 4.8? I don't think so. I know that during the past few years its PA has been a 4.6. Has it moved up? I am pretty sure that Hawkette's findings are correct.</p>
<p>^ thank you</p>