In a recent thread about students getting waitlisted/rejected at all/almost all of the colleges they applied to, poster Osserpusser posed some questions that I think are excellent…and which might get buried in that thread.
Here they are (from post #52 in the thread linked below):
I see that each of you applied to very few safeties. Did your guidance counselor or parents recommend this route? If so, why? Or was this your own decision? Do you wish you had applied to more safeties, or did you only want to attend a top choice?
Were you aware of the acceptance and yield statics at all of the schools you applied to? Did you have any help from a counselor or parent with these statistics?
I assume you are all top students very well regarded at your respective high schools? Did that in any way give you a sense of security that you would get in to top tier schools?
Were any of you required by family to apply to "prestigious" schools only?
AND I’LL ADD THIS:
What do you think your "Achilles Heel" was?...meaning, why do you think you were not admitted to the schools that W/L or Rejected you?
I think bringing attention to the reality that many kids (with good and even great stats) aren’t getting into some of the “non-HYP” is important for future applicants and the adults who are counseling them.
I’ll repeat my statement in the other thread that I truly appreciate the courage and honesty of the the students who have reported their not-so-good results. I think that’s the only way future generations of CC users will be able to get an accurate picture of just how competitive things are…even at schools they think are not that selective.
I applied to 10 schools and was accepted to 9. The only school I was waitlisted at was one of my match schools. I got accepted to both of my reaches, one of which has a considerably lower acceptance rate than my the match I was waitlisted from. So with that in mind, I will be answering the following questions in reference to Denison University, the match school I was waitlisted at.
I applied to a healthy balance of safeties and matches, so I knew that no matter how poorly my application was reviewed I would have somewhere affordable to go with programs that fit my interests.
I was aware of the acceptance rates at the colleges I applied to, but not necessarily until after I applied. In Denison's case, I thought that the school had a high acceptance rate, so I was surprised when I saw numbers reaching the high 40s. My reach dream school had an acceptance rate of 35% in 2013, so I was even more surprised when I received my acceptance. According to a not-so-reputable source, the acceptance rate this year drooped as low as 29%.
I am not a "top tier" student by any means. I am actually quite your average, run-of-the-mill profile. I had extenuating circumstances that made my application stand out, however, such as my sexual orientation, familial struggles, and talent ability (if that wording makes any sense, lol.)
I was actually encouraged not to. Oops.
I would like to believe that I was waitlisted at Denison because it was not a good fit for my socially. Denison is supposedly on the more conservative, preppy spectrum of the radar, whereas I'm very much a left-wing liberal (though moderate on some issues due to my conservative, Catholic, Republican upbringing.) However, I probably got waitlisted because I showed no interest in Denison and they needed to protect their yield. No one wants to accept that students that will probably not attend.
Thanks for chiming in minohi, but your story is the flipside of what I’m looking for…you got in pretty much everywhere you applied (I think by choosing your schools wisely).
Hopefully though, people will start to chime in. Thanks again for helping the thread get traction…
D applied to 4 safeties (including 2 in state that are financial safeties as well), 2 "matches" and 4 reaches. I cautioned her about the 4 reaches, but she said "You've got to try."
Accepted: all 4 safeties and 1 match
WL: 1 match, 2 Reaches
Rejected: 2 reaches
YES! We paid attention to yields and Mid-50s in SAT score. Thought we were well informed and knew what to expect. The big surprise was the WL at the match school. Visited from OOS, interviewed, submitted app early (though for RD). CDS shows D's SAT scores above 90th+ Percentile in CR and just at 70% percentile in M. GC said to expect any school with a less than 25% acceptance rate to be a reach for everyone. However, what we didn't expect was the increase in applicants. Said WL match school had a 15% increase in applications this year…. so the acceptance rate went down as well.
When it came to one reach school, there is a strong HS --> College connection. So, though a reach, it seemed more of a chance. This is a 7-8% acceptance rate school and my D was wait listed. Also WL at a school that has been 30%ish in the recent past. However, there is NO connection between the HS and College.
NO WAY! D was told to apply where she thought she'd be happy. We have favorites and she knows that, but I do not think we pressured her.
In my opinion, I think D didn't put the time and effort into the applications. She is a very "I've got this" type. I wish she'd have allowed some feedback on essays, if not from parents then from GC. But, no one got to read them and help. Some essays were written in a hour. But, in all honesty, that's her personality and what she'll bring with her in life.
What a great thread. I’ll answer for S, to the best of my ability:
S applied to 2 safeties - Instate flagship honors program and top in state LAC, accepted at both, with merit aid. He applied to 6 other schools, all reaches. After spending 5 weeks last summer in a Governor’s scholar’s program, he determined that he wanted to go to a school where he would be surrounded by top students.We looked at top schools that fit in with our financial needs.
S was aware of the statistics, but is a very confident soul, lol. School counselor is no help, as literally NO ONE from his school applies to competitive schools. They start talking college at the beginning of Sr. year. Yes, really.
Absolutely yes, this. S has the highest ACT score that anyone in the school has ever had. Seriously. We had no prior results to compare to for selective schools, since no one had ever really applied. Without CC, we would have had no idea about SAT subject tests. No one ever told him that AP scores would be used in admissions - he might have actually studied for them, shooting for 5s instead of being happy with 4s he didn’t study for. Also, sights such as Parchment may have given me some false sense of security with regards to the non-ivy top tier schools and his chances of admission.
No. While we encouraged him to apply to and reach for top schools, we tried to get him to look at several other schools, and he had zero interest. The only pressure we put on him was to do his best on applications, trying to put his best foot forward.
I don’t think he ever really got the concept of selling himself in his apps. His Senior schedule is somewhat light, with three AP classes and really nothing else, but only because he has been taking high school courses since 7th grade and had pretty much run out of any classes that interested him. Only two years of foreign language - no one ever told him he needed more and he hated Spanish. He attempted to mitigate that by doing an independent study in Russian, though. No hook - he’s a white, middle class male with 2 lawyers for parents, and no special talent or skill.
He has currently been wait listed at Georgetown, Washington and Lee & Vanderbilt.
I applied to a good number of schools and my list was predominantly reach heavy. I motivated myself to apply to such a large number of top schools. I understood all of the competitive acceptance rates and went through with about 14 interviews.
My stats are good enough, or so I thought (2120 SAT, 3.8 GPA, URM, lots of EC’s with leadership, a presitious internship, lots of volunteer hours).
So I definitely felt a false sense of security regarding my chances at top schools. I have been accepted to every public school I applied to (University of Texas-Austin (in-state), UNC-Chapel Hill, Cal-Berkeley, UCLA, South Carolina, Alabama, and Arkansas).
However; private schools have been a drastically different story.
I have so far been rejected at Duke, rejected at Rice, rejected at Stanford, and wait listed at Vanderbilt.
Of course, I have psyched myself up for attending a prestigious private university but as more letters come in, the less and less likely it seems. Ivy day is tomorrow, and I will additionally hear from Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, and UPenn. I’m keeping my fingers crossed but I also have been humbled by the rejections at other schools and therefore have no expectation of receiving any Ivy League offers of admission.
Regardless, I feel that I have been lucky to get into so many great public options and I will be likely attending the University of Texas in order to save money for my MBA down the road. To everyone who receives rejections from their top choices, especially those surprised; keep your head up. Success can be achieved anywhere by anyone willing to work for it.
Basic Stats: 2340 SAT, 3.93 GPA, Rank 21/~500, All-state Horn, National AP Scholar
The only safety I applied to was UMD. I know I'll be happy there and it's the best I can do without having to pay for a private school (or OOS public). To me only a "top" school would justify the additional ~$150,000 I'd have to pay, and even then maybe not.
I was very aware of how difficult it is to be admitted. Most of that awareness came from reading results threads on these forums. I knew there was a chance that I'd be rejected from everywhere but I thought by applying to 7 top schools there was a good chance I'd get into at least one (atm from the 5 I've heard from I've gotten 4 WLs and 1 Rejection)
No, but I do believe I have the stats to have as good a chance as anyone, and a better chance than many people applying to the same universities from my school.
No, my family advised me but they never pushed for top schools and ultimately the choice was mine
I didn't prepare for the application process thoroughly. I picked my schools as I applied and that probably showed in the essays. I didn't do any optional interviews or visits before applying (from the schools I've heard from so far anyway) and struggled with the "why our school" essays. My ECs also have almost no breadth and I don't have any work experience or summer activities.
Stats: GPA: 3.9 UW, 2230 SAT, top 5 percent (probably 3 or 4 out of 180), good ECs
I see that each of you applied to very few safeties. Did your guidance counselor or parents recommend this route? If so, why? Or was this your own decision? Do you wish you had applied to more safeties, or did you only want to attend a top choice?
My school has a pretty good track record of getting kids in the top five percent into some very, very good schools. A lot of pressure to apply to schools I knew I wouldn’t get into (looking at you, Brown and JHU) and some that I had an okay chance at but wasn’t a shoo-in (Tufts, Rice). We’re a small town, so it’s very easy to become a big fish in a small pond.
Were you aware of the acceptance and yield statics at all of the schools you applied to? Did you have any help from a counselor or parent with these statistics?
Yep, I was very aware of the acceptance rates, but it was looking at the stats of accepted students that convinced me I could get in. My parents know next to nothing about the college process, so I was pretty much on my own.
I assume you are all top students very well regarded at your respective high schools? Did that in any way give you a sense of security that you would get in to top tier schools?
Oh yeah, I would definitely say so. Kids with my stats have been accepted to top-tier schools all the time. I think that made me feel that I would at least be accepted to one- in my school, it’s almost embarrassing for anyone in the top ten percent to say they’re going to a school outside of the top forty, even if they do so for financial reasons. It was foolish of me to have this sense of security- that’s pretty obvious now.
Were any of you required by family to apply to "prestigious" schools only?
Yes and no. My parents were hands-off in the admissions process and let me apply wherever I wanted. However, once I got my acceptances (and rejections), they began to say that they actually didn't want me going to an LAC, they didn't want me in Canada, etc. I think they genuinely believed that I would get into Tufts or Rice, and when I didn't they had to reevaluate the schools I would likely choose between.
AND I’LL ADD THIS:
What do you think your "Achilles Heel" was?...meaning, why do you think you were not admitted to the schools that W/L or Rejected you?
I think that my SAT I math score (670) was way too low for some of these institutions I was applying to, especially because I wasn’t applying for a history degree or an English degree- I’m applying for a bachelor of science. Also…I’m just not that special or exciting. There really isn’t anything about me that makes me stand out from the crowd.
Thanks to everyone who’s added to the thread. If I can ask that contributors include their results (ex. 9 applications, 7 W/L, 1 Rejection, 1 Acceptance) and following the 5 question format…makes it easier to read and compare post to post.
Basic Stats: 4.0uw, 34 ACT, 2130 SAT (only submitted where required), 8 AP classes (all 5s on taken exams), leadership positions in and out of school, pretty involved in a non-school ec, also lived overseas from middle school-freshman year.
So far, I’ve been accepted to my #1 choice (WUSTL) and Miami of Ohio with an almost full tuition scholarship, but was waitlisted by Emory, Vanderbilt, Lehigh and rejected by USC, Duke, Stanford and most likely UPenn after this afternoon!
Miami was my only true safety, but I didn’t see the need in applying to 4-5 safety schools that I didn’t know if I would be happy at. I go to a large public high school and our guidance counselor is brand new/has 300 other students so I didn’t have any help from my school. In hindsight, I wished I would have visited more schools to really get a feel for them and see where I felt that I would fit in (aside from top 20 schools), but I have always set pretty high expectations for myself which pushed me to apply to so many reaches.
I was very aware of the low acceptance rates and have been saying this whole year that I can’t see myself getting into more than 1 or 2! Unfortunately my predictions were correct, but by some miracle I was accepted to my favorite. And, it really only takes one school to say yes.
My school doesn’t weight GPAs, but I’m a valedictorian and will have taken most of the AP classes we offer. My hs doesn’t send many kids, if any, to top 20 schools but for some reason my grade is a bit of an outlier. I was slightly reassured by some very unexpected ED acceptances to top schools in my class but still knew it would be difficult.
Nope. My parents are very supportive and would love for me to go to a top school but it is 100% my decision. They were surprised by the # of rejections/waitlists though.
I don’t have any major hooks but I would definitely go back and edit my school-specific essays. I had a really hard time writing some of them and I think it showed. My common app essay was also pretty quirky, but definitely represented me!
Overall, I would have loved more acceptances but am plenty happy because I probably would have ended up at Wash U anyways. The only decision I was a bit surprised by was Emory and Lehigh, but I didn’t show interest at either school. As a side note, I did my USC app in a few hours and am a bit embarrassed I sent it in… And really don’t blame them for rejecting me! I also plan on taking a gap year, so if I wasn’t accepted anywhere, I planned on applying again next year (not the best plan I know!)
For students reading this looking for advice, spend a ton of time on your essays!! And if you have the chance to interview- do it. I know that many people say they don’t count for much, but my Wash U one went great and I have a feeling it helped get me in.
Answering for my son, who was wait listed at Notre Dame, the University of Chicago, Stanford and Washington & Lee. Rejected by MIT and Swarthmore. Accepted at Northwestern and Amherst.
I see that each of you applied to very few safeties. Did your guidance counselor or parents recommend this route? If so, why? Or was this your own decision? Do you wish you had applied to more safeties, or did you only want to attend a top choice?
He did apply to a couple of safeties that give automatic scholarships to National Merit Finalists. In our case, he probably applied to too many safeties, as most of them were very similar: large, state schools like Alabama, Kentucky and Michigan State.
Were you aware of the acceptance and yield statics at all of the schools you applied to? Did you have any help from a counselor or parent with these statistics?
We had no idea about yield and acceptance rates. The top 25%/middle 25%/bottom 25% statistics were something tat we paid attention to. We did not realize how much essays, ECs, and class rigor might play a part when applicants to highly selective schools almost all have great stats.
I assume you are all top students very well regarded at your respective high schools? Did that in any way give you a sense of security that you would get in to top tier schools?
Yes. Lots of well-meaning people telling him that he could “get into any school in the country with stats like that.” Of course, they were right to an extent - you CAN get into any school in the country, but you’re not likely to.
Were any of you required by family to apply to "prestigious" schools only?
Not at all. My wife has a degree from a directional school. I am a college dropout. We went into this hoping he’d get close to a full ride at a place like Wright State or, maybe, if we were lucky, Akron or Ohio U.
AND I’LL ADD THIS:
What do you think your "Achilles Heel" was?...meaning, why do you think you were not admitted to the schools that W/L or Rejected you?
Not realizing how competitive admissions is to the best schools. You can’t “half-ass” your essays or spend your summers sleeping and playing Xbox. This is a slight exaggeration, of course, but we definitely could have done more to create a more impressive application.
SAT score is 2120. 3.8 GPA, lots of EC’s, prestigious internship, community service, etc.
Accepted: Tulane ($36,000/yr. Aid, mostly merit), Cal-Berkeley (No aid), UCLA (no aid), Univ. of Texas-Austin (Full tuition), Univ. of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (17,000/Yr. aid), Univ. of South Carolina (Full ride), Univ. of Arkansas (Full tuition), Univ. of Alabama (Full tuition).
Waitlisted: Vanderbilt University
Rejected: Stanford Univ., Rice Univ., Duke Univ. Harvard Univ., Princeton Univ., Yale Univ., Columbia Univ., and Univ. of Pennsylvania.
Lol feeling the love from the public schools. Private, not so much.
I’ll be attending the Red McCombs School of Business at the University of Texas at Austin next fall! I’ll be saving money for an MBA down the road and I’m beyond stoked to end up at Texas.
Rejection hurts, but there’s so many roads to success when you just have the right mindset and are willing to take risks.
All will be swell.
I am very familiar with a young man’s choices (not my son) and he fits this profile and situation well. So I’m filling this out with his info. 2300 SAT2, 800 and 790 SAT1 in Math1 and German. Most Difficult course load at a top private school. Unweighted GPA of 3.8. School doesn’t rank. Good ECs, but nothing at national level. Good leadership, impressive local and school achievelments.
Parents, GC and student were all on board with the top heavy list, given high school history of their kids getting into top schools and parents/student considered the recognition, ratings reputation of those schools very important when evaluating colleges. Parents did not want to pay top dollar for anything other than top school. One safety and one match school on list--match school is a reach for most students Accepted to both with substantial merit money at safety.
Yes and yes. Student has always been at the top of the stats and was so even at very rigorous high school where all students were preselected. Has always "beaten" the odss of selectivity. Up to now.
Yes. Was a top student at top high schools and leader there as well. Is an excellent athlete, will continue in college but just fell short of recruitable status.
4.Parents encouraged prestigious schools. Will not pay top private $s for a school unless it meets prestige standards of parents,
I think young man was WLed and rejected from the reach schools because there simply were too many applicants with his stats to fill all of the spots, and he had no outstanding hook a college wanted, and did not fall into any of the special pools. His "hook" which is not a hook, was his high achievements in the most difficult courses and high test scores. It wasn't enough.
Using a simple system of 6 categories: 1. Grades 2. difficulty of curriculum 3. Test scores 4. ECs 5. Recs 6. Essay, with 5 pts to each, I would give him , 4, 5, 5, 4, 4 ,3 at least and for those in the general admit pool that wasn’t good enough. It’s a low B, 83.33% at the low end. Even jacking up the essay to a 5, would give him a 90 which is an A-. Only As are likely considered when there is no striking reason for a college to want a kid. When so reduced, it becomes apparent why he was not accepted at the schools with single digit or close to it accept rates.
I applied to a few safeties: one in-state private school, one Florida school, and one Pennsylvania branch campus. I did get into all of them, but I never really had intentions to attend either of them.
Yes, and yes. The acceptance rate was a pretty big factor in deciding which schools to apply to. I also heavily looked at the average stats of accepted students, as well as how they weighed each admission factor in the process.
Nope, not at all. My stats are respectable, but nowhere near the top of my class.
Also no. My dad tried to get me to apply to my state flagship, but I told him I wasn't at all a fan of it.
My Achilles heel was definitely, 100% my GPA. Had it been a 3.4 or so, half of my reaches would have matches.