<p>I have a full-time job, a part-time job, and I’m a full-time student. I know I’m not typical, but I was maintaining a 3.95 GPA (down to 3.57 after Statistics *shakes fist at Statistics). I don’t find the summer class requirements particularly onerous. I think this is a bad decision. </p>
<p>I think all this is a reading comprehension test because I’m reading the same links others are and getting something else out of it.</p>
<p>Contrary to post #4, there is NOTHING even on the parents’ self-serving website that says Caitlyn flunked out of college. Please note that to be accepted to the Disney program, she had to have completed at least one semester of college successfully. <a href=“http://cp.disneycareers.com/en/about-disney-college-program/overview/”>http://cp.disneycareers.com/en/about-disney-college-program/overview/</a> According to her mom,she got kicked out of the Disney Program for drinking, which in my mind is not "flunking."She didn’t finish her associate’s degree because she transferred to Temple. Presumably, she was in good academic standing because if she weren’t it’s extremely unlikely that she could have transferred. </p>
<p>Her mom goes on and on about how much she paid for the Disney program. Maybe she did have to pay for transportation in advance, but please note , from the Disney site: “The Disney College Program is a paid-internship.” IMO, folks getting to be an extra in a funny costume at a Disney World is a JOB. Yes, mom paid for one month’s rent–the apartments are shared and it’s special Disney housing, so I can’t imagine that bill was more than $1,000 and probably closer to half that. [Actually, it was $200.] <a href=“http://cp.disneycareers.com/en/program-components/living/fees/”>http://cp.disneycareers.com/en/program-components/living/fees/</a> Also note that the number of credits you can earn is determined by your school, and only a limited number of schools give ANY credit for the program. <a href=“http://cp.disneycareers.com/en/program-components/learning/credit-options/”>http://cp.disneycareers.com/en/program-components/learning/credit-options/</a> And, frankly, after reading the course content description, I wonder how any college can give credit for it. </p>
<p>Mom says Caitlyn had to take 3 summer courses to make up for the credits Caitlyn lost by getting kicked out of Disney. However, mom says that Caitlyn “…would only be able to take 2 classes that [Disney] semester.” So, if she only missed out on taking two classes at Disney, why is mom insisting she take 3 classes to make up for two!!!</p>
<p>Now, it’s possible that Caitlyn’s community college is one of those that gives credit for the program, but I doubt Temple is . If not, CAITLYN DID NOT LOSE ANY CREDITS AT ALL. </p>
<p>And, Juliet, the mom said she had to register --her word–for 3 summer courses. To me, that sounds as if she had to take them all at once in one summer; you don’t “register” for courses a year or two in advance. And note too that mom herself says "The only part of our plan that she had a problem with was the 3 summer classes. " </p>
<p>Since she had already completed one semester at the same school SUCCESSFULLY, I think Caitlyn simply knew that 3 classes would be too much. </p>
<p>Her parents’ gofund me website says that, according to her mom, her mom DID file a FAFSA. She just didn’t like the results. A heck of a lot of people in the CC community didn’t like theirs either.</p>
<p>Note too that Temple is an out of state public and the $16,000 her parents were ordered to pay was a lot less than out of state tuition and fees. <a href=“Tuition Rates / Tuition Calculator | Bursar's Office”>http://bursar.temple.edu/tuition-and-fees/tuition-rates</a> Note too that it’s not much more than the $13,683 a commuter pays to attend Rutgers. <a href=“http://admissions.rutgers.edu/costs/tuitionandfees.aspx”>http://admissions.rutgers.edu/costs/tuitionandfees.aspx</a> </p>
<p>Note too that Caitlyn is 21 NOW. This suit is to have her parents pay for classes she has ALREADY taken at Temple…when she was NOT 21. And obviously, she did NOT flunk out of Temple. </p>
<p>Then we get to read the litany of all the wonderful things Caitlyn got to do with the family/
Add up all those professional sports tickets, vacations, etc.PLUS eight years of summer camp and mom would have the eight grand that’s her share. </p>
<p>Maybe I’m naive, but I tend to think the judge knows more than any of us, and he probably made the right decision.</p>
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<p>Interesting. The summer course I took while holding a full time job was statistics. Despite the issues with juggling a full-time job with the class/recitation meetings, the course was such that with some effort, the final grade received actually boosted my undergrad GPA. </p>
<p>Ok, I’m sorry, it seems I misunderstood the information the mother provided about her not finishing the Disney program or her AA degree. "Flunking"was therefore an incorrect term. </p>
<p>I’d just like to point out one additional fact. When Caitlyn left her mom’s house–for whatever reason—she moved in with her paternal grandparents. They live in Cherry Hill, NJ, which is a suburb of Philadelphia. So, it’s not as though Caitlyn chose an out of state college out of a whim. She chose a college she could commute to while living with her grandparents. </p>
<p>I don’t think she attends Temple yet, so it is for future tuition. In a separate issue decided last Monday, the parents have to reimburse her for $908 for courses at the community college that yes, she has already completed at the community college.</p>
<p>I just think that even divorced parents should have a say in funding tuition, how much,and for how long, just like the rest of us do. If a 21 year old decides to move out, she should be on her own. The Disney internship is a little different. Most are NOT placed in the glamorous jobs of being Snow White or giving tours, but working at shops or on rides or at information booths. I think it did cost her mother quite a bit for her to get set up and then wash out only 3 weeks later. My daughter is interested in doing it, but her school doesn’t recognize it as an internship, so that places all her financial aid in jeopardy as it would be a leave from the school.</p>
<p>No, the $908 was for courses at Rowan University, which is not a community college, it’s the NJ equivalent of a directional public – f/k/a Glassboro State. She went there last spring. She is currently enrolled at Temple and taking courses there; she already has a judgment against her parents for about half of her Temple tuition and fees, but they are appealing it.</p>
<p>According to The New York Daily News, The $908 was for courses at Gloucester County College. <a href=“New Jersey parents refuse to pay court-ordered tuition for their adult daughter – New York Daily News”>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/n-parents-refuse-pay-adult-daughter-tuition-article-1.2042195</a> Googling shows that it is a community college which is now known as Rowan College at Gloucester. <a href=“Home | Rowan College of South Jersey”>Home | Rowan College of South Jersey; (Later I found an article in the Philly paper that confirms she attended Rowan College at Gloucester.) <a href=“http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20141209_Judge__Parents_must_pay_for_daughter_s_NJ_college_tuition.html”>http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20141209_Judge__Parents_must_pay_for_daughter_s_NJ_college_tuition.html</a> In any event, it’s a two year college.</p>
<p>She is described as a junior at Temple in an article published last month. <a href=“New Jersey parents ordered to pay estranged adult daughter’s college tuition – New York Daily News”>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/n-parents-pay-estranged-daughter-college-fees-court-article-1.2010796</a> Matters came to a head when the tuition was due so it’s pretty clear that she was already enrolled. <a href=“Young New Jersey woman sues estranged parents for college tuition - 6abc Philadelphia”>Page Not Found | 6abc.com - 6abc Philadelphia;
<p>This is the actual decision according to Huffington Post:</p>
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<a href=“Lawsuit Shines Spotlight On Whether Parents Should Be Forced To Pay For College | HuffPost Post 50”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>(She’s now raised $2760.)</p>
<p>So, McGarvey is trying to collect $20,000 from other people, so that she won’t have to pay the judgment against her for $6400. If Caitlyn stays in school, it’s potentially $12,800. </p>
<p>According to her website, her salary is approximately $67,000 a year. Granted, that’s pre-tax. Still…she’s being ordered to pay less than 10% of her income. </p>
<p>Again, given the fact that NJ law says divorced parents have to pay for college, I think that’s a perfectly reasonable outcome. </p>
<p>Government is getting more and more intrusive in family life, it is such a familiar pattern and people do not understand where it leads…every singe little “win” like this is a step closer to loosing a war defending the freedom in this country, then it really will be no special, just as intended by…I do not think many here will understand what I mean, but it is a sad trend for others who choose to live here because of the freedoms that used to be the most important and most cherished and guarded part of living in the USA.</p>
<p>The law part says that in a divorce each parent is responsible to contribute 50% of the tuition at Rutgers. As others have said, this is usually used so that the non-custodial parent still has to contribute to college. This seems equivalent to extending child support to college. It is not clear how this works in financial aid. My understanding (all hear-say as i am not divorced), that in some cases only one parent has to fill out the FAFSA and the income of the non-custodial parent is not included but the income of a step-parent would be (that is, the household income where the child lives 51% of the time is what counts). I am not sure what the answer is on schools that use the CSS profile. If the girl had to use the parent’s income on her financial aid forms, having them not pay their EFC (or at least some of it) would impact her ability to get aid. </p>
<p>I think this is the first (or at least the first publicized case) where this law is being used to require each divorced parent to contribute equally to the education. If they really make as much as is stated, they should be able to contribute this much.</p>
<p>Some schools require kids to list their parents income on financial aid forms until the kid is at least 24, regardless of whether the parents are willing to support an adult child. Does anyone know how it works when the kid is not living with the parents? Did they list her as a dependent on their tax forms? </p>
<p>I don’t think the law applies to non-divorced parents who cannot be forced to fund a college education. This is where the unintended consequences come into play when both parents choose not to fund college. </p>
<p>Well…the gofund me amount mom has collected is now $3,045. I wish mom would pay it to Temple, but if she did it would be fraud since she’s asking for $ to appeal the decision. </p>
<p>Mom and Dad are all over the news…and are going on an on about how awful their D is. I really don’t think the world needs to know about every indiscretion Caitlyn has ever committed. Reading the gofund me saga and the articles and watching the interviews, I think both of them are being less than forthcoming about what actually happened. </p>
<p>Her lawyer is also saying stuff I don’t think he should say, e.g., it’s possible Caitlyn will reconcile with her mom but not with her dad who is the real driving force behind the lawsuit. Caitlyn’s lawyer has said that a lot of her dad’s motivation is his hatred of his own parents and his anger with Caitlyn for having anything to do with them. (Even Caitlyn’s mother said that she allowed her former in-laws access to Caitlyn while she was growing up over the objections of Caitlyn’s dad.) </p>
<p>BTW, the reason her father has given for refusing to pay it is that he can’t afford it. His parents paid for his college education. <a href=“http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/mc-nj-college-tuition-battle-1209-20141209-story.html”>http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/mc-nj-college-tuition-battle-1209-20141209-story.html</a></p>
<p>In fairness to the parents – who come across as jerks to me, too – it seems pretty clear that the grandparents have a lot of responsibility for the lawsuit, too. They seem to be funding it, and to be fronting the tuition funds. I don’t know how much of a dent that puts in their finances, but it’s entirely possible that they are pushing the suit as a way of punishing their son for his disrespect of them. (It’s working, too.)</p>
<p>The whole thing is just messed up. The thought that any parent, divorced or not, is OBLIGATED to pay for college is absurd. </p>
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<p>Many colleges have more than one summer session; when I said that doesn’t mean that she has to take them all at once, I meant that perhaps she could take one or two classes per summer session.</p>
<p>Still, I think that the normal course of action if you think your parents’ requirements are too onerous is to have an adult discussion with them and negotiate - not throw a fit, move out, and sue them.</p>
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<p>…that’s not much better. I would be furious if my own (hypothetical) child wasted my money and got kicked out of an internship program 3 weeks in for underaged drinking, especially if she had already been caught and reprimanded for this several times before. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter how much the mother paid for the program; the point is mom and dad had been financially supporting their daughter all along and she squandered the opportunity.</p>
<p>@jonri, why would you assume that Temple does not give credit for the Disney College program? First of all, you can register at several universities and community colleges for credit, including Montclair State University (a NJ public college). Caitlyn could’ve registered for 3-9 credits at Montclair State and easily transferred those over to Temple afterwards. The program is also recommended for 3-9 credits by the American Council of Education, of which Temple University is a member. The Disney College program recruits on Temple’s campus; they even have a [Twitter</a> account](<a href=“https://twitter.com/templedisney]Twitter”>https://twitter.com/templedisney) dedicated to it.</p>
<p>It’s unclear, but if Caitlyn were going to take 2 classes that semester plus earn 3 credits through the Disney College program, that would be the equivalent of three classes worth of credit.</p>
<p>The thing is…her parents could be being completely unreasonable. They could’ve decided that they didn’t want to pay for college at Temple because they irrationally did not like Temple, or because they were doing it out of spite. Maybe they have teetotaler ideas about alcohol and drugs and Caitlyn was just doing normal teen experimentation. I don’t think that should matter, materially, for the case. The question is whether or not we think the state should be able to compel parents to pay for their adult offspring’s whims, even if those whims are totally rational.</p>
<p>Do you think young adults should be able to do whatever they want, live wherever they want, and still have their parents pay their college tuition to whatever school they want to attend at whatever price? Do we want the government to step in and decide what kind of parenting is reasonable and what’s unreasonable (barring child abuse)? Do you want the state government to decide what you should be spending your money on and where you should send your child to college?</p>
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<p>Ordinarily no. However, this case is ongoing because of a unique law in New Jersey which stipulates each parent is responsible for paying for college in event of a divorce. As divorced residents of a state with this law, the parents are on the hook unless they figure out a way to overturn this law.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for them, the parents’ demands for her to take 3 summer courses in even two summer sessions while holding a full-time job is not going to make them sympathetic to those of us who have taken college summer courses and know how the compressed schedule and workloads are such taking 2 or more courses with any decent rigor/content is such it’s actually an onerous expectation for most students. </p>
<p>That and it seems she has support of grandparents who have serious issues with how their child and child-in-law are handling this situation. </p>
<p>Juillet, </p>
<p>You may be right and Temple does give credit for Disney. I don’t know. However, if it doesn’t, enrolling in a DIFFERENT 4 year college and then enrolling in Temple doesn’t mean the course credit would transfer “easily.” It is quite common for a 4 year college to refuse to accept credits earned at another 4 year college. </p>
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<p>You’ve created a straw man. I wasn’t arguing that Caitlyn’s parents didn’t have a right to be upset with her for getting kicked out of Disney for drinking–if that’s what actually happened. I was only pointing out that a previous post indicating that she had flunked out of college 2 or 3 times was inaccurate. </p>
<p>Personally, I do think that parents have a duty to support and educate their offspring to a reasonable level, taking their financial circumstances and educational backgrounds, the child’s abilities and other factors into account. I also think that if you can’t afford to support and educate your child, you shouldn’t have more children. </p>
<p>Dad in this case has 3 other children. One is a toddler. Dad’s reasoning is that he can’t “afford” to send his 21 year old daughter to college because he has 3 other kids from his second marriage. I don’t buy that. </p>
<p>I don’t know how child support works in New Jersey, but in New York, later born children are NOT grounds for reducing child support–and I personally don’t think they should be. So, if a couple split and the court orders dad to paya $1,000 a month in child support, and dad then loses his job, he can come back to court and argue that it’s no longer reasonable for him to have to pay $1,000. But if dad remarries and has 3 more children, he can’t come back to court and say, it’s now unreasonable to make me pay a $1,000 a month because I have other kids to support.</p>
<p>Dad in this case chose to have a baby when his D from a previous marriage was starting college. I don’t think his D should suffer financially because he made this decision. </p>
<p>I think that when we have a financial aid system that bases your ability to get $ for college on your parents’ income, your parents have a moral obligation to contribute something to your college education if they are financially capable of doing so—though I do not think they are obligated to send you to any school you want at whatever price. I see no evidence that Caitlyn expected that. She is living with her grandparents–so her parents are NOT being asked to contribute room and board.</p>
<p>I think that by having a child her mother and father assumed certain obligations towards her, including the obligation to educate her in the same manner they probably would have if they had remained married–and presumably if they had, they would not have had 6 kids. And I don’t think the fact that a kid got kicked out of a program for drinking is enough to wipe out that obligation. </p>
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Wow… so u think kids are entitled at birth to “lock in” from their parents a guaranteed standard of school.</p>
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What a great deal for the adult kid-- conditionless support</p>
<p>This is not a case that gives any precedence, IMO, for parents to be forced to pay for their children’s college. The situation deals with what was specifically addressed in the divorce decree. This is the danger of having college obligations spelled out when there is a divorce. Those things are contracts and will be enforced by the law. The stipulations are put in there to prevent parents from refusing to cooperate and pay for college after a divorce when there is agreement to do this. As one covers one contigency, it caused issues in a whole other area. The whole purpose here is to force a parent to fullfill his/her obligations. That perhaps both parents, even though divorced, are in agreement not to pay as per agreement does not nullify that court docurment. </p>
<p>So no, kids are not entitled for their parents to pay for college or anything UNLESS is it is a court document, so stated that they would do so. Just about the only time this comes up is in divorce situaitons. Maybe prenusps. The court in this highlighted case is simply enforcing the legal contract those parents made about a situation, that they do not want to keep. It’s just as though they had put aside money in the kid’s name for college or whatever reason and then change their minds about giving access to those funds. Instead of money, it was a contract to pay, and the kid is making the parents make good on that contract that they readily agreed upon years ago, when the child was a sweet innocent.</p>
<p>That’s not quite right, cpt. If it were just a matter of enforcing a contract, the parties to the contract would have the ability to agree to a modification to fit future circumstances, as the divorced parents here agreed. A court might determine that the daughter was a third-party beneficiary with independent rights to enforce the contract, but that’s actually fairly rare. And my understanding is that New Jersey imposes an obligation to contribute to college costs on all divorced parents, whether or not they agree to it in their divorce settlement.</p>
<p>I’d just like to note that in cases involving divorce, a lot turns on how much the different parties appear to be jerks to the judge who is overseeing the case. The law is usually fairly flexible, and the judge will sock it to the parties that he or she believes are acting badly. In addition to seeing more of the facts, the judge also gets to see these people in person.</p>