<p>I wish it were blasphemy cos I am a chemE. :) Unfortunately >99.9% of the population doesn't know what chemE learn and do. Now I am in the process of switching to investment/business myself.</p>
<p>Manys the time I have heard about the sad news of great engineering students defecting to ibank/consulting firms for $$$. :(</p>
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ucchris is pretty biased
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It's so ridiculous that Cal fans keep telling others Berkeley is better than Stanford. Give me a break!
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<p>Chill guys. ucchris was just giving an opinion, that in his experience many grad programs are held in higher esteem than Stanford's grad programs. That's hardly saying "Berkeley is better than Stanford." In fact, ucchris admitted that Stanford beats Berkeley at the undergraduate level. Besides, if ucchris is biased towards Berkeley, then warbersrule86 can be seen as biased against Berkeley for mentioning that Stanford places above Berkeley in the average of 41 scores but not for mentioning that out of 36 grad programs ranked Berkeley had 35 in the top ten while Stanford only had 31. I mean come on...most of us are all a little biased here and there.</p>
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Stanford's law and business schools are in a whole different league above Berkeley. These are programs that carry more name recognition in the (business) world than something like chemical engineering.
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<p>I agree that the Law and Business schools probably carry more name recognition in general than something like Chemical Engineering, and I agree that Stanford's Law and Business schools are better than Berkeley's. But a whole different league? Let's take a look at US News Rankings:</p>
<p>Business Schools:
2. Stanford University
7. University of California - Berkeley (Haas)</p>
<p>Law Schools:
2. Stanford University
8. University of California - Berkeley</p>
<p>Come on...that's not "a whole league" ahead.</p>
<p>In terms of faculty reputation, the top 3 in USA has to be Harvard, Stanford, and Berkeley. In terms of the strength in various departments,
Harvard is super in all areas except engineering;
Stanford is super in everything;
Berkeley is super in everything except without a medical school;</p>
<p>All other schools are limited in their strength. MIT and Caltech are super in science and engineering only. MIT has a super bussiness schools as well. Princeton is super in humanities and science only (lack of professional schools). Yale is super in humanities and law.</p>
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Berkeley is super in everything except without a medical school
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<p>Umm, except you've forgotten to mention Cal's glaring hole which is its relatively weaker (frankly much weaker) undergrad program (no. 21 USNEWS) when compared to the likes of HYPSM (which are generally 1-5 in one form or another).</p>
<p>datalook, you have to remember that we are talking about the presitige of the school here. Just because a school lacks certain programs or excels in others does not change the amount of prestige it has. You can't discredit MIT because it doesnt have an amazing law school/ humanities program and still claim that "Berkeley is super in everything except without a medical school". You say that all other schools are limited in their strength, but you just contradict yourself by saying that "Harvard is super in all areas except engineering". Doesn't that mean that Harvard is "limited"? </p>
<p>Having 10 mediocre programs doesnt make a school better than one with just 2 really good programs and several ok ones.</p>
<p>Also I wanted to mention that there is no correlation between faculty reputation and prestige.</p>
<p>I'm actually English, I lived in England for eleven years, and I have lived in Italy and Germany (not to mention I've visited most European nations). The schools that I consider to be the most well known are UCLA, Berkeley, and Harvard. Albeit they might not be the most prestigious, but they are brand names none the less and known more than all others. Since they are more widely known and renowned, people generally associate them as being the most prominent. Often, I would mention Universities such as Stanford and MIT and people would give me perplexing looks because they had never heard of them. I had not heard of MIT and Stanford myself until I moved to the U.S. Sorry, I hate to dissapoint.</p>
<p>Now in the U.S. is an entirely different matter: Princeton, Yale, Harvard</p>
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I'm actually English, I lived in England for eleven years, and I have lived in Italy and Germany (not to mention I've visited most European nations). The schools that I consider to be the most well known are UCLA, Berkeley, and Harvard. Albeit they might not be the most prestigious, but they are brand names none the less and known more than all others.
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<p>This is exactly what I am talking about. No one would consider UCLA on par with the likes of Harvard, yet as I mentioned previously (post #26) schools with a name connection to America's famous cities (e.g. NY and LA) get a huge boost internationally.</p>
<p>For example, I remember when I was working in Asia, I can't count how many times I'd see a UCLA Bruins t-shirt worn by a local person, for instance in Shanghai or on a random teaming street in Kowloon (Hong Kong)... now I'm not discounting the possibility that that person may have actually gone to UCLA (or knew someone who did), but that doesn't change the fact that this increased "familiarity" has little to do with prestige.</p>
<p>Berkley, Harvard, Stanford</p>
<p>Right. The difference between popularity and prestige is that popularity is judgement from people who "don't matter", and prestige is judged by people who "do matter."</p>
<p>
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warbersrule86 can be seen as biased against Berkeley for mentioning that Stanford places above Berkeley in the average of 41 scores but not for mentioning that out of 36 grad programs ranked Berkeley had 35 in the top ten while Stanford only had 31. I mean come on...most of us are all a little biased here and there.
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If I were biased, I'd be trying to promote Duke as the #1 school in the US. </p>
<p>Luckily, it's so obviously superior that I don't have to promote it. ;)</p>
<p>Right. The difference between popularity and prestige is that popularity is judgement from people who "don't matter", and prestige is judged by people who "do matter."</p>
<p>Aurelius, I think many people around the world would take offense to that comment. Why should people from other nations be expected to know American Schools? Without searching on the internet, can you tell me the most prominent school in Holland (I doubt it)? Therefore, do you not "matter". I think what you intended <em>cough</em>to say is there are two kinds of people: informed and misinformed. Generally, the world-wide public will list schools such as UCLA, NYC, and Harvard as the most prominent because they are universities they have heard of and if they have reached them in a distant country then the colleges must be prestigious. Those who are aware of scholarly matters; however, will most likely list Yale, Harvard, and Princeton as the most prestigious AMERICAN schools. </p>
<p>Personally, I think Oxford and Cambridge are the best universities in the world, but I'm biased because I'm English.</p>
<p>Yale, UPenn, WashU</p>
<p>Hands down. I went to England this summer, and people were wondering about these three schools there. Harvard is commonly looked at as overrated, and Princeton's undergrad isn't good enough...MIT only good for tech, which leaves these 3.</p>
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Princeton's undergrad isn't good enough.
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<p>But WashU's is better? Are you kidding me? </p>
<p>Doesn't WashU already have its hands full addressing perception problems in the US much less worrying about its international rep?</p>
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MIT only good for tech
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<p>Yes. you are right... and so does it follow that Wash U is only good for washing?</p>
<p>I must regretfully infrom you that I know only a little about Washington U and I now live in the states (and that is only because I have a friend there). The Prestige is right.</p>
<p>Pick 100 people at random walking down any streets in the U.S. Ninety of them have never heard of Wash U (after you clarify things for them that its not in Seattle). Great school but completely off the radar,</p>
<p>I grew up in Pakistan. From my perception at that time, I would have to agree with the top 3 being Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley.</p>
<p>After comming to America, though, I now perceive it as Harvard, Stanford and MIT.</p>
<p>I'm glad we're getting the hang of this, here is a quick "reference guide" (not meant to be a complete list):</p>
<p>Schools with BOTH Familiarity AND Prestige:
- Harvard
- Yale
- Princeton
- Stanford
- MIT</p>
<p>Schools with Prestige BUT less Familiarity:
- Brown
- Caltech
- Dartmouth
- Northwestern
- University of Chicago
- University of Pennsylvania</p>
<p>Schools with Familiarity BUT less Prestige:
- New York U
- Boston U
- UC Los Angeles
- UC Berkeley
- University of Michigan</p>
<p>Schools that lack Familiarity AND Prestige (not to say that these are BAD schools, just that they lack both awareness and, let's face it, respect):
- Tufts
- Wash U - St. Louis</p>
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You forgot to include Duke with HYPSM. It has the recognition, at least
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<p>I've had long discussions on this particular point, so I purposely left Duke out... I think they are in a special category.</p>
<p>They are familiar, yes, and prestigious, yes, but they aren't necessarily famous for their prestige (if that makes sense) - in other words, the Duke Blue Devils are definitely more famous than Duke academics (let's face it, there are very few athletic programs that match, for example, the fame of Duke Basketball - Notre Dame / USC football comes to mind) - but, to be clear, that's not to say that Duke's academics are second tier, they are first tier (thethoughtprocess has helped me to see this light more than any other), but, at the end of the day, academics is not necessarily what Duke is famous for, it is in part, but not overwhelmingly so... by contrast, MIT / Caltech is famous for its academics, period. ... at any rate, a special category IMO.</p>
<p>I agree (especially down here in ACC country), which is why I had deleted my post...wasn't quite quick enough to prevent a reply. :o</p>