<p>salander, yes, i knew about the tech deal. a great deal if you get selected, not sure how many spots they have. interesting you know someone who did this. so it really exists!! :)</p>
<p>Creekland I would disagree based on my own personal experience during my med school application, my participation on med school admission committees and the experience of others. First of all, medical schools look at the body of work (MCAT, LOR, EC, GPA and personal statement). They won’t write you off because of where you completed your pre-med classes. The MCAT is the great equalizer. If you attended a CC and scored 36 on the MCAT that would be better than an elite school and an MCAT of 28. In my own experience of completed several of my pre-med classes at CC, no one cared about my CC classes. My MCAT score was high and I got in 6/6 of the medical schools I applied to and received a merit scholarship. I am still finding varied backgrounds each day from the residents who come through my hospital. You would be surprised how often the advise on this forum is either wrong or overkill.</p>
<p>^^^ I am only repeating what I’ve heard directly from current med school admissions folks - those deciding today. Each of the three we went to also said not to trust anyone giving information from “our own generation” as things worked differently back then. (Much easier comparatively.)</p>
<p>And again, remember ALL said cc courses weren’t a fatal flaw, but rather, a nick. With today’s competition for slots, personally, my guy doesn’t want any unnecessary nicks.</p>
<p>YMMV</p>
<p>Rather than taking the word of anyone on here, I strongly suggest parents and students go to “Doctor” Days at various schools and listen in (or ask questions) themselves. I definitely trust what I heard from the source in person more than any info put on here. I’m just repeating it on here.</p>
<p>"miami, won’t know the $ given til applications are in (yes some give idea online). "
-Incorrect. I am not talking about exact figure, but you can get a pretty good idea if you research. We estimated and D. did not apply to schools that would not offer any or very little, even if it was her “dream” school. Not that hard to do.
Not only online. Listen to kids/parents who have just applied 1-2 years before. Things are changing, but not that fast.</p>
<p>"I’d take the cheapest, well-reputed option "
-The first is good, the second is not needed. As long as they have a good suppot system for pre-meds, but people get by even without a good committee. Again, it will be ALL up to a student, absolutely everything. Kids go to non-ranked, absolutely unknown local colleges and live at home to save even more $$$ and still are gettting into Med. School becasue they simply have everything that is required</p>
<p>creekland, i am not familiar with what are “doctor days”. at med schools?? That is a great resource, I’d love to know how to do this. Thanks!</p>
<p>frugaldr, how recently were you in ms admissions? what part of the country? (sw, ne, etc.) That is GREAT!! I know there are exceptions to every rule, and that blindly ‘doing the right thing’ is no guarantee, but I do want to make an educated decision on this. You may have done this elsewhere, and being new, I am not familiar. But what is your “best recommendation” to my son, if you please! THanks!!</p>
<p>“Doctor Days” (in quotes as they often have different names) are days where undergraduate institutions have a special admissions program for pre-med wannabes. Those with med schools have had panels or speakers from their med school admissions addressing high school students (and their parents) and have had group question and answer sessions.</p>
<p>Looking quickly at a brochure my youngest son received from Pitt a day or two ago, theirs is July 19th this year and is entitled “So You Want to be a… Medicine.” (NOT my grammar…) It runs from 8:30am - 4pm. We went to Pitt’s a couple of years ago as they are a med school my middle son is likely to seriously consider when he applies. He almost chose them for his undergrad, but preferred URoc considerably overall, so was happy when the cost came in affordable.</p>
<p>Different areas of the country could very well be different in what they expect. Since you are from TX, I’ll add that I believe you have nice in-state choices for med school that help you out odds-wise. It could be well worth it for you to check your major schools with med schools to see if they offer similar opportunities to hear things first hand for your area. It doesn’t matter if you are seriously considering the school for undergrad or not.</p>
<p>We opted to attend 2 private and 1 public (med schools) of these info sessions. For the most part, they all said the same thing. We did not head to the south or far west though (did do WUSTL). After three of these days we felt we had a handle on what was wanted and my guy just continued his undergrad search based upon fit for him and our family finances.</p>
<p>In short, any 4 year school can work (see that they’ve had recent graduates make it in to med schools), though you want to be at or near the top - esp if coming from a lower level school. There is more leeway with top school students, but not tons. Going to a top school (10, 20, 50) is not an auto-admit nor is going to a bottom school an auto-reject. Choosing “easy” routes (like cc or summer courses) for pre-reqs is frowned upon because it’s not a character trait they want to see. If a student is choosing cc first (esp for $$ considerations) they recommended taking non-pre-req courses there, then taking the pre-req courses at the final 4 year school. More leeway was given for Calc (with AP as well as cc).</p>
<p>Pitt did add that they have a list of schools they consider appropriate and a school should be on that list. They would not share the list (trust me, parents asked!). They did say it probably had 300 or so colleges on it (guesstimate on their part I think). In any case, it’s not “Top 50 or bust.” When they get an app with a college they aren’t familiar with they look up info on the college and either add it or discard the app. The other two schools did not mention such a thing, but WUSTL shared their link that I gave above.</p>
<p>Then they all want to see character in the form of ECs (research, clubs, some sort of “life” - many want foreign languages), LOR’s, etc. and MCAT scores.</p>
<p>Nothing from high school will count EXCEPT any college courses the student took while in high school. My middle son had 3 - he gained no college credit at URoc for these, but they will be on his med school app since they were true college classes (from a cc). Fortunately, as with his other colleges classes, they’ve been As. He’s also quite active at his school and enjoying himself. IMO finding a fit where your guy can get good grades without boredom, be active, and enjoy himself is the goal. There are many possibilities out there that can work.</p>
<p>One other thing my guy liked was having a hospital on campus or near enough to walk (safely) to. Other med students suggested this to him as a consideration - one they had overlooked when picking an undergrad. It makes it easier to work or volunteer in the hospital while doing classes. It’s definitely not a “NEED” as there are plenty of other ways to get experience. It’s just a personal preference for consideration. WUSTL does not have one within walking distance - theirs is a little bit away. Same with Tufts. Pitt, URoc, and Vandy do (just for some I know about).</p>
<p>I am from the Northeast and enrolled in medical school in the 1990s after completing an engineering undergraduate degree. I absolutely hated UG engineering because of the theoretical aspects of the curriculum but loved it when I went to work as an engineer. The most critical moment of my education was a biology course I took at a CC. I was trying to “find” my calling and enrolled in business, criminal justice, and biology courses. The first 2 at my large state university and the last at a CC. The CC teacher had a passion for biology, the classes were small, the pace was reasonable, and I was hooked. Everything changed for me with that course and a spark ignited that developed into a flame that continues to this day. I am afraid to think what would have happened if I enrolled in biology at the university level. I eventually met an engineer who was in his late 30s returning to medical school. He scored a 38 on the MCAT without taking biology, organic chemistry and was more than 15 years out of school. His engineering GPA was below 3. He gained acceptance to medical school with a full tuition scholarship and was required to take the biology courses before enrolling. He taught me how to prepare for the exam and I did very well on my MCAT.</p>
<p>I applied to 6 medical schools in the Northeast, Mid Atlantic and South. My interviews had nothing to do with my grades, where I attended college or my MCAT. Most were about my engineering job and in one (no kidding at all) I played piano for my interviewer.</p>
<p>In medical school I served as a medical student rep on the admission committee in the late 90s. Attended a very prestigious residency and worked extensively with medical students. A good half of the residents at my hospital were from the well known Ivy schools. The other half weren’t. But all were very accomplished and highly motivated. To be honest, while the residents from the prestigious schools were impressive on paper and performing research, they were not the top residents at actually performing medical procedures.</p>
<p>Now that I am in private practice in the Midwest with different residents and medical students rotating though my hospital, I am floored by their backgrounds. Just today, I spoke to an orthopedic resident who went to CC first 2 years, transferred to a very small bottom tier university, switched out of engineering into psychology and is an awesome resident. He is a 5th year, so his medical school admission was around 2004. During our conversation, a circulating nurse mentioned her daughter was a first year medical student, air force is paying her way, she attended a lower tier college. I am finding these scenarios a lot.</p>
<p>So, my advice is to evaluate your schools to meet your short term goals, long term goals and to seriously avoid having to spend or borrow too much money. There aren’t any fixed formulas to get into medical school. I do agree that you should attend the doctor’s days and the open houses of the medical schools you are interested in. Also, times have changed and any advice you receive has to be altered to apply to your needs, your schools, and the current market. Sorry for the long response. Hope this helps.</p>
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<p>We absolutely agree here. All med school admissions folks cautioned against going into mega debt for undergrad - esp for those doing it for prestige of college (Ivy or whatever). It’s not necessary. Their recommendation was to go to the best college you could afford that you thought you could also do well in, then apply yourself and do well.</p>
<p>All also mentioned that their “unwritten rules” are different for those who decide upon med school after getting a degree (or almost getting a degree) than they are for those in high school heading in thinking pre-med (this latter group is the group they are speaking to). They give FAR more leeway to the former than the latter. They see many in the latter group making their choices “trying to beat the system” and they don’t like that character trait. All med schools have oodles of applicants to choose from (less than 50% of all applicants make it in anywhere), so they can be as picky as they like over any trait they like. We thought it better than to try to proceed with known nicks.</p>
<p>frugaldr, no apologies!! i relish every word of advise and information you all have given me. I do hear med schools are more than open to other non science majors, and that psychology, for one, is respected. Your insight is great, and I appreciate it sincerely.</p>
<p>creekland, i agree, why take any easily avoidable risk, but I so agree that nothing is worth spending four years at some place you really don’t want to be, ONLY because of some statistic. I don’t think anyone could do that without taking a toll on their own sanity!! Not worth it, IMHO. There are still, alot of paths to the goal that he would enjoy, but this is helping so much. There are some known premed factories 'round here, that don’t suite his personality…we just keep in mind that college is more than academic. it is learning about one’s self and about life in the outside world. </p>
<p>THanks all!! Off to check dr. days at area ug schools. great suggestion I have never heard before!! interesting the perspective of HS premed types vs those that decide later. That clarifies many of the odd stories one hears, I suspect.</p>
<p>I think y’all would do well to pay attention to what frugaldoctor has written.</p>
<p>My experience is very consistent with what he/she has written…and it’s more current.</p>
<p>There are many paths to a successful medical career. Anyone who has been to medical school knows how varied those paths are. I had physicists, musicians, helicopter pilots, ice cream taste-testers, and lawyers in my med school class. The one common denominator is that all were hard-working.</p>
<p>My advice to high school students interested in becoming physicians:
[ul]
[<em>]Work hard.
[</em>]Matriculate at a good undergrad institution.
[<em>]At college, major in a field that you’re passionate about. You don’t have to major in a physical or natural science.
[</em>]Earn excellent grades in both your science and non-science classes.
[<em>]Fulfill the med school class requirements (slight differences among various med schools).
[</em>]Get involved with extracurricular activities as much as possible. Take on leadership positions if the opportunity arises (and it always does).
[<em>]Seek out medically-related activities. Volunteering at a hospital is an excellent way to position yourself to learn some medicine, shadow health professionals, and engage in community service.
[</em>]Do well on the MCAT.
[li]Work hard.[/li][/ul]</p>
<p>I mentioned one item twice. I did that on purpose. A person doesn’t need to be exceptionally bright to become a competent physician, but he/she must be willing to work hard.</p>
<p>Bart, good advice. This all has helped so much, and helped center our pursuit in college searching. ‘It’s not so important where you go, but what you do once you get there’…is advice we have heard many times. </p>
<p>Creek, son has emailed 7 area universities and colleges (north texas area) and NONE have this day!! Some have pre-med advisors that ‘will meet with you’, but no ‘days’ with a panel, etc. This is at ug’s with pre-med tracks?? Just making sure i am understanding correctly.</p>
<p>weird!!</p>
<p>You may want to contact a medical school and see if the class presidents would be interested in talking with you. Please try this during the winter and summer breaks. You might find differences between the schools with the students they enroll. As for the hard work part, mentioning it twice just isn’t enough. OMG, it doesn’t end with medical school or residency. This can truly be very painful at times and you will never escape working hard. So many pre-med students I knew who wanted the high paying specialties quickly switched their choices as the workload took a toll during medical school.</p>
<p>Many students think that prestigious university = harder = lower GPA, and conversely, that a less prestigious university means they will get a higher GPA. I don’t necessarily agree. Top universities are well-known for grade inflation; even the professors here at my Ivy admit to the grade inflation across the Ivies. A student may go to a lower-ranked school but get really involved in the social life and achieve a lower GPA than they had potential for. Or they can be deeply unhappy and not do well, whereas they could be intellectually stimulated and challenge and really thrive in the competitive atmosphere of a top-ranked school and do well. There are so many variables.</p>
<p>Davidson is located 20 minutes north of Charlotte. It’s not rural. There are many hospitals in Charlotte, and other universities. In addition to that, Davidson professors must do research as part of their jobs, and there is always the opportunity to work with a Davidson professor.</p>
<p>Personally, I think pre-med students should split the difference. Go somewhere affordable where there are ample opportunities that medical schools find attractive, but somewhere they enjoy and will have fun and flourish. Many (most, I would say) pre-med students aren’t pre-med anymore after orgo or another class they love, often as soon as the first year. I, too, was “pre-med” when I headed off to college. I changed my mind before I even signed up for a single class. And even a really dedicated student at a great school may struggle in the pre-med courses or do something else that makes them a long-shot for med school, and then there needs to be other opportunities at the college they choose.</p>
<p>With that said, any of the schools you listed could be good viable options for a pre-med education. I don’t know that it would necessarily matter where your child chose to go from these options, as kids to go to medical school all the time from all of those schools.</p>
<p>NettiK - Is he trying schools with a med school? Those we attended were with undergrad Us that also had their own med school. Maybe there are more common outside your area? I don’t know. I know we didn’t have trouble finding them. After either his PSAT or ACT when he got mailings he got notification of them. I suspect he also put pre-med down on his “interests” for those tests. We’re in PA, but WUSTL is one of the first we opted to do. It was in mid June, so theirs is likely already past for this year (though they may have had a later option). Pitt’s is still coming in another week (literally, a week from today). I haven’t seen info on the others, but it could easily be due to youngest (my upcoming senior) wanting tropical bio, not pre-med.</p>
<p>The days we attended were all packed with pre-med wannabes and their parents.</p>
<p>I just googled WUSTL and they do have one July 16th, but unfortunately, you had to sign up by July 2nd. Here’s a website for them. Check websites of schools near you with med schools and see if they offer something similar:</p>
<p>[Summer</a> Special Visit Days](<a href=“http://admissions.wustl.edu/news/Pages/SummerSpecialVisitDays.aspx]Summer”>http://admissions.wustl.edu/news/Pages/SummerSpecialVisitDays.aspx)</p>
<p>"Nothing from high school will count EXCEPT any college courses the student took while in high school. "
-If you mean AP, then it is correct. AP credits DO COUNT. If in doubt, please, contact adcoms of Med. Schools on your list. I am not sure why people hesitate doing that, they are the ONLY ones who could answer what is count and what is not at their specific SOM. My D. has done just that and recieved her answers very quickly, specifically about AP credits for English and Calc.</p>
<p>^^^ Yes, I meant AP(sometimes) and DE (if college level courses).</p>
<p>What won’t count are ACT/SAT scores, extra curriculars, class rank, etc - all those things used to get into undergrad. Those all “restart” in college and will be replaced by MCAT, college ECs, etc. </p>
<p>Someone who was top of their class in high school could end up not making it in pre-med for college. Someone unknown in high school could end up with multiple acceptances to med school. It all depends upon how they do in their respective colleges.</p>
<p>netti, WashU does a wonderful job showcasing its school, the opportunities, and the facilities. Even though sign up ended ten days ago, call them up and ask if you can join on 7/16 (if that works for you). Even if that particular day doesn’t work, call them up to ask what other subsequent events they hold. My son went to a weekend in September, without me, and his first text was, “WashU is awesome”.</p>
<p>Question for other posters concerning those “doctor days”…. should one go visit med schools if you are in college and planning on applying to MS next year?</p>
<p>Nettik</p>
<p>My son is starting at WUSTL this fall- the general feeling is that WUSTL is very collaborative. There is so much help available in their Cornerstone program. All schools are going to have some cutthroat individuals, but this is one where it seems to be more the exception than the norm. Their premed reputation is absolutely phenomenal.</p>
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<p>Actually, so far at least two of my secondaries have requested high school data,
WashU and Duke.</p>