My daughter got GPA 4.1, ACT score 31, but super score 33. She is interested in pre-med university, especially neuroscience. And we need to think about budget too. Currently, she put Duke, John Hopkins, Notre Dame, University of Pennsylvania, Washinton Lee, northwest, the University of Chicago on the list. I heard some suggestion that we can add Cornel and Georgetown. I searched online, it looks like brown, rice and Emory also have the good pre-med program too. I am totally lost. Can you give me some suggestions? By the way, she likes the small class and a good friendly supportive environment too.
Currently, her list is waaaay too reach-heavy. If she is truly interested in pre-med, take a good look at less expensive options and those where she will be in the upper quartile of the class. Your state flagship, for instance. The selectivity of a school means relatively little when looking at med-school admissions. Attaining a near perfect GPA and MCAT scores will be the first hurdle, so she should be looking at schools where she will be well-prepared (which will be most of them) and where she is likely to be at the top of the class. I also think it’s helpful to have easy access to hospitals for volunteer, clinical, and research opportunities. But, again, you don’t need an “elite” university (like all of those on your list) to get that.
If anything, I would suggest focusing on the neuroscience department rather than thinking in terms of “pre-med programs.” Most students who start out as “pre meds” never even apply to med school.
FWIW, if a student at my school wanted pre-med with a 31 ACT (not caring about the superscore TBH), I wouldn’t suggest any of the schools on your list. I’d have them start looking at schools where a 31 is in the Top 25% of students.
I posted the following on a recent “asking about pre-med” thread, so I’m just cutting and pasting it here:
For the best chances of success, make sure your lad goes to a school where he’s in the Top 25% of stats going in (GPA and SAT or ACT). Kids from my school who chose “match” or “reach” schools have not done well on the pre-med route, UNLESS they were in the tippy top where pretty much all students matched their incoming scores (more or less) - aka - median ACT = 33 and theirs was 33 vs higher. Reach schools that are “lottery” admission schools are fine IF their stats are in the middle to top half.
I’m sure there’s one out there somewhere, but I can’t recall a student going to a school where they’re in the lower 25% who has stayed pre-med.
Once in college, getting the GPA and MCAT scores needed - along with all the ECs - is totally up to the student and their work ethic, of course. No college does that part for a student. Staying pre-med also depends upon their not finding something else they like better. Many students do.
One doesn’t have to major in Bio to be Pre-med.
Take a look at the Class Profile for U Rochester’s med school. They are nice enough to post it online. Most other med schools would probably be similar. Change the date in the URL and you’ll see it’s a template. They tend to look for the same general things year after year. It gives students an “eyes wide open” approach of what they ought to be doing in undergrad - not everything of course, but something. There are potential undergrad schools in each listing as well. (My own lad was the fire juggler in this profile… He also had many of the other attributes, of course - and still juggles fire and knives.)
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/MediaLibraries/URMCMedia/education/md/documents/2021-profile.pdf
Change “lad” to “lass,” but otherwise, my advice and experience is the same. What area of the US interests her? What type of school? Cities or more rural? Are you looking for merit or need-based aid? A student will do the best GPA wise in a school and major that interests them.
Quite a few schools will work just fine, but what hardly ever works is a school where they are overmatched coming in. Why? From what I’ve seen they get into the pre-med classes and find out other students know more than they do (foundation) and get discouraged. Generally they can be just as intelligent, but that discouragement factor coupled with being new to college (and adjusting to that) is very difficult to overcome. Put the same student in with peers where they are entering near the top and they feel encouraged instead. It can make all the difference.
thank you all. very helpful suggestions. My daughter loves rural life better than a city. But city life is fine. We need financial aid or merit. The tuition fee is really expensive for us. Can you give some college suggestions? thanks again.
Tuition is only part of the costs. You have room/board/books and transportation costs on top of tuition. What $$ amount can you contribute each year? What schools are within commuting distance? Home state?
What’s your efc? Can you afford it (if not what’s your budget?)
What state do you live in?
None of the schools you listed would be good for an aspiring pre-med.
Keep in mind about 75% would be pre-meds never apply to med school. Of those remaining, only 40% get a med school offer. (To have an idea of what’s expected to get in, look for a tumbler by Afrenchie36).
For this score and that GPA, I’d recommend Dickinson, St Olaf, Muhlenberg, Rhodes.
Is the tuition fee is really expensive for you then you really need to focus on cost in your college search. Start by figuring out what your expected financial contribution will be by using the calculator at https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/fafsa/estimate. Most colleges that you listed will also have a net price calculator. Fill out a few of those.
If what they expect you to contribute is what you think you can pay then things are looking good. Otherwise you will need to start focusing on colleges that give generous merit aid or are less expensive. none of the colleges you have listed so far are of like this. You will need to focus in this case on the public colleges in your state and also lower ranked schools where she would be one of the top applicants
Agreeing with @mikemac Figure out your Fafsa EFC (if you haven’t) and see if it’s affordable for you.
If so, let us know and there are need based aid schools that could be workable (although your student will also have basic student loans at many of these schools). Beware that some schools go by the CSS Profile (and they calculate their own) and not the Fafsa, but I believe most you’d be looking at are Fafsa schools. For any school you find you “like” or think you might like, run their NPC. That should give you a good financial idea of what each of these would expect.
If you pick yourself up off the floor feeling pretty ill (after seeing the EFC), then you’ll want to concentrate on good merit aid schools. With an ACT of 31 (superscored 33 can make a difference for some of them - not all - for scholarships) then there are schools where she could get a really nice merit offer. They just won’t be the “big name” schools, but that’s ok. Med schools want students from all sorts of schools - not just the big name players. She will find plenty of pre-med wannabes taking classes right alongside her.
Run an NPC or two for your state schools if any are attractive too. In many states, those are the best financial options and there can be some different “types” to choose from. PA has 14 different true state schools and another 4 sort of state schools once one adds Penn St, Pitt, Temple, and Lincoln. PA is NOT a cheap public college state though. I think we’re the second most expensive (sigh), but MOST states are pretty good.
Within PA, if you are good with need based aid check out Dickinson and Franklin & Marshall.
If looking for merit aid consider Washington & Jefferson, Juniata, and Allegheny. These also can give need based aid but it’s not necessarily the full amount (can be if they like the student), so if you like them on the internet, run an NPC.
I’m sure there are others…and of course there are plenty of other states. I’m just thinking off the top of my head during a break at school at the moment.
ps I just noticed her preference for neuroscience… That might require a larger school for a good program. Check out major availability at my suggestions. I went with smaller schools in a more rural location.
ETA: I just checked - Dickinson still works. It’s easy to check the rest, but I can’t really devote the time to it right now. Figure out your financial situation and then start aligning places to look at.
We live in Ohio state. We thought OSU and Case are good colleges too. The case is close to us but the tuition fee is $68k per year. The school can offer financial aid up to half of the tuition fee. I think what we can afford the total cost is about 15-20k per year. OSU is another choice. But we still want to apply for several good colleges with good neuroscience program so we can compare them. Thanks for your all suggestions. They are very helpful.
What you think you can afford does not matter in terms of what colleges expect you to pay. The only number colleges care about is the EFC. If the EFC matches what you think you can afford things are looking good. If the EFC is 50K then you have a problem and need to look for less expensive schools or schools with merit aid.
Type “Case Western Reserve NPC”, “Ohio U NPC”, “tOSU NPC”, “Dickinson NPC”, “Muhlenberg NPC”, “Wooster NPC”, “St Olaf NPC”, “Rhodes NPC”, and look at the numbers for each - cross out any that’s above 15-20 net price (except for colleges that didn’t ask questions about stats, ie., that didn’t include merit).
If you’re in Ohio and especially if your daughter is open to osteopathic as well as allopathic med schools, you may also look at early assurance programs in your state. There are some that she might be a great candidate for. And, speaking as a mom of a student with “good stats” in high school who is starting the med school application process now, I wish I would have encouraged her to look more closely at such programs four years ago! (The med school application process is like the undergrad college application process on steroids.)
Your daughter also needs to do more homework on the specific schools: when people hear you say ‘pre-med’ they reflexively name a bunch of schools that either have good med schools or are well known. All those on your list are very good schools- but they are very different! There are probably a few students who would be happy at both Duke and UChicago, or Northwestern and Washington & Lee, for example, but there can’t be many. Also, JHU is not especially generous with financial aid (and has something of a reputation for giving a good first year package, but dropping in later years).
As others have said, you will help your daughter best by encouraging her to identify schools where here stats are in the top 25% of the class and where she doesn’t have to take any loans (med school is expensive, and there is even less money for med school than undergrad). Most of the schools she applies to should fit that criteria; then she can add a couple of fancy names in with them for fun. Whatever else, make sure that nobody sets their heart on a fancy name that later doesn’t make an offer or turns out to be unaffordable!
Med school is a long, long journey and the ability to look long-term is essential. Being a star & graduating w/o debt from OSU is going to put her in better shape to actually get into med school, and not be crippled by debt, than going to any of the schools on the list.
There’s an early assurance program at tOSU but Op’s daughter likely wouldn’t qualify. She can try and apply if the deadline’s not passed.
She’d be better off at a more collaborative college, where there’s less weedout.
Have you considered Wooster? I’ve heard nothing but good things about them and they offer merit aid + have neuroscience.
As a premed hopeful, your D is looking at 4 years college, 4 years of med school, 3-5 years of residency for most, or 11-13 total, perhaps longer if fellowship training (subspecialty)… Until she finishes those 11-13 years, she will not earn enough money to reduce her loan balances in any meaningful way, if at all. So along with all those years of education/training borrowing, the interest on that loan debt will also continue to build and build, putting a financial ball and chain on her for years, perhaps decades to come. Can’t agree enough with above posts that as med school is crazy expensive, trying to graduate from college with as little debt as possible, if any, is an important consideration for any premed. Keep in mind that most colleges will offer opportunities and resources D needs to be a successful premed. Whether that happens is much more on her, less on the name of the school D attends.
If you don’t mind, where as a hs student did D’s interest in neuroscience come from? I don’t need an answer. But since med schools don’t care what D majors in, maybe some consideration of schools with a less narrow focus (ie neuroscience) may open up more school choices/options both academically and financially. Sorry I can’t be more specific as to schools, I’m a CA parent with limited knowledge of your area. Good luck to D and you.
If you want to go pre-med then think about:
- The cheapest reasonable college so you/your parents can use the money for med school
- The college needs to prepare you for MCATs but still allow you to get a good GPA
- Access to volunteering opportunities (e.g., near a hospital)
- Success in graduates getting into med school
- Options if you don’t go to med school
No need to over think OP. The OSU all the way! Would you look at restaurant menus that you cannot afford? Would you go to test drive cars that are unaffordable? College has a cost component and for now, OSU deserves to be high on your list…