36 ACT.... Now what?

Parents Forum
1

My son is a Junior in HS. His stats are unreal. Ranked 1 in a class of 460. 4.0 true GPA. 4.6 weighted. By end of his senior year he’ll have taken every AP and weighted class his school offers. This weekend he receives a 36 on the ACT. President of Key club and 2 year varsity athlete in 2 sports.

He wants as much scholarship money as possible of course, but not sure what he wants to major in. He is good at about everything so narrowing a major down is not something he wants to do yet. What’s next? Where do we look? Financial aid is not going to happen so we are searching for academic scholarships? Any ideas there?

2

What’s his major? career goal?

How much do YOU want to pay each year? $10k? $15k? more? less?

What was his PSAT? will he make NMSF? what state are you in?

The biggest awards can be for NMFs, but there are big awards for top ACT/SAT scores as well.

If you’re looking for a free ride (tuition, room, board, books), then likely you’re going to have to go down the ladder for rankings.

Alabama is one of the most generous schools, merit wise, yet the award wouldn’t be a total free ride, but it would be large. I think an ACT 36 usually gets 4 years of tuition, 1 year of housing, and a $1k per year stipend. If an eng’g or CS major, then an additional 2500 per year.

If the student becomes an NMF, then 5 years of tuition, 1 year of housing, 3500 per year stipend, iPad, 2000 study abroad money…and if eng’g or CS, then the additional 2500 per year.

3

He’s not sure on a major. Perhaps Law, Engineering, or Economics. He is interested in all 3. As far as what I’m willing to pay, that depends on the value. It would be paid in student loans most likely. We are in Illinois FYI. PSAT no idea,

Not sure what NMSF IS? So I appologize I can’t answer that one.

4

NMSF National Merit Semi Finalist. It is based on PSAT score. WHAT was his PSAT score? Ask your son. He took the test last October and got his score in Dec or Jan.

Law isn’t a major…neither is pre-law. He could major in eng’g and go to law school, if he wanted.

5

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As far as what I’m willing to pay, that depends on the value. It would be paid in student loans most likely.


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Please clarify. Are you saying that you’re going to pay the “parent portion” with Parent Plus loans that you’re going to pay back? Your child can only borrow $5500 for freshman year.

6

He does not remember his PSAT score. He said he remembers he scored in the 98th percentile. I’ll see if I can get that from his counselor.

7

If financial aid is not in the picture, why would his education be financed from loans only?

I find this story somewhat unbelievable.

8

As far as “what am I willing to pay” I would say depends on the ROI. Until I can analyze the opportunity with him compared to multiple school offers that is hard to say. I can pay whatever it takes but am willing to pay only within reason. Seems we need to sift through a lot of colleges to analyze that one and compare offers. This is new to both of us,

The less in loans the better I believe. I imagine we just need to look around quite a bit.

9

Sorry I don’t follow you Consolation. Loans are a last resort for a 50k plus a year school, and I believe he’ll qualify for almost any school.

So it’s either a lesser school with a near full ride or an Ivy League caliber school, which requires loans. Thus loans could be an option, but not a good one. I see everyday in my profession destroyed kids and parents all because of student loans. Thus I dont like that option.

10

If you can “pay whatever it takes,” that implies you can pay, say, $240K, possibly minus the federal loans your S would be eligible for, which total just over $20K. Usually, it is assumed by colleges that you will pay from a combination of savings, current income, and possibly loans.

If your S really has such great stats, I would suggest that you start by looking at your state flagship honors program. Then look at the schools that offer FA to families with incomes up to $150K or more per year. (Unless your income is way higher than that or you have huge assets.) You can run the net price calculators on their web sites. Then look into schools with big competitive scholarships. Then look into schools where he might get some merit money. (Typically, this will mean dropping down a bit in class, since most of the most selective schools don’t offer merit.)

“Calculating” ROI on a college education is virtually impossible, IMHO. What does that even mean? There are far too many intangibles involved. I think that almost everyone would agree that avoiding crippling student debt is a good idea, but beyond that…

Your S sounds like the kind of student who would be be best served by going to a top quality LAC or university–probably one of the private ones, unless you are lucky enough to live in a state such as VA or Michigan, with an outstanding flagship–with strong, broad offerings that will suit him in almost any academic field he desires.

U Pitt has a good honors college and give significant merit $$ to OOS students with top stats.

11

Your son’s stats are good but not unreal. Read around on this forum a bit.

12

OP, what is strange is simultaneously stating that you can pay whatever it takes AND saying that it will mostly be financed by loans. Those seem like incompatible statements to me.

13

If he is looking for big scholarship money, point him here:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html

Automatic big scholarships can be low cost safeties, while competitive big scholarships can be low cost matches and reaches.

UIUC is a well regarded school for engineering, but is relatively expensive with poor financial aid for an in-state public, so some out-of-state schools with scholarships and engineering may be significantly less expensive. Engineering (except biomedical) majors often have good financial ROI, but often not if they happen to have the bad luck of graduating into an industry downturn (like 2009 civil engineering graduates).

Economics is a very common major, but it is generally at more selective schools where there is more of a liberal art emphasis rather than an alternative-to-business-major emphasis, and a relatively small number of more selective schools offer highly math-intensive economics courses that are of most interest to pre-PhD economics majors (who would take lots of advanced math courses regardless of which undergraduate school they attend).

Law is not an undergraduate major. Getting into law school is mainly based on undergraduate GPA and LSAT score. No specific undergraduate major or course work is required. Engineering followed by law school is often done with patent law in mind.

14

I’d recommend spending some time here on CC. Your son sounds remarkable, but there are a lot of remarkable kids out there, so nothing is guaranteed. D’s friend with very similar stats wound up at UIUC last year after being very disappointed when she didn’t get into the elite schools on her list and got merit aid that was lower than expected from the more prestigious schools she did get into.

One thing I didn’t notice in your short description of your son’s accomplishments was any national awards or truly outstanding ECs. When your focus is on the local situation, I think it’s easy to be seduced into thinking that a student is more unique than he or she really is.

And I can say that from my own experience, so please don’t see this as diminishing your son’s accomplishments in any way. It’s just an easy trap to fall into. D is also a high stats kid with lots of leadership positions in school-level ECs at a large Illinois high school. She’s a leader in her school community, but has no true national awards. She has a merit scholarship to a school that became her own “dream school,” a good (but not “elite” by CC standards) private research university. Thanks to merit aid, we have a COA that is approximately the same as going to one of the Illinois “directional” schools. She would not have thought of her school if she had not found it on CC and been willing to look beyond the usual list of “elite” schools that most kids from Illinois think of when they decide to look beyond UIUC. We’re pleased as punch with where she’ll be going next year…to a school I really knew nothing about three years ago.

15

I’m confused. Will you be looking for merit aid…or not?

16

I think it would be beneficial for you and you alone to sit down with a list of top 50 universities and top LAC’s. Decide how much YOU will be willing to pay for your son to attend each school .

I would suggest reading as much as you can on this site especially this years results. It can be a real eye opener.

It is important that parents and students go into this process with realistic expectations.

Welcome to CC. Enjoy the ride.

17

Also, read the college websites very carefully. A good chunk of the top 50 schools offer no merit aid…at all. They offer need based aid only.

There are some terrific, highly regarded schools that do offer merit aid, but it is highly selective, and your son would need to apply in many cases. Check Rice and Vanderbilt…for example.

18

This is a great place to start reading and learning from others who have been there, done that. It is great that you are looking now, in your child’s junior year. Getting your financial parameters decided very soon will allow you to focus your search on schools that fit YOUR definition of being affordable for your family.

There is a difference between AUTOMATIC merit aid available at some schools, and COMPETITIVE merit scholarships also available at some schools. AUTOMATIC aid means if you apply on time and meet the qualifications, you get the aid. COMPETITIVE scholarships are sometimes by invitation only, after meeting a certain base level stats qualification, and usually involve written essays and on campus interviews. There are usually a very limited number of these top scholarships awarded at each school, although there is often an additional small amount of merit aid awarded when you participate in the competitive scholarship weekend on campus.

College admissions has changed so much, and the competition is fierce. Especially in the most elite schools. If you are only willing to look at what the media calls the “best” schools listed by rank, you might be frustrated. If you are willing to open up your search and consider “lesser” schools (again, as perceived by the media) you can often find a great fit for your child with large merit awards.

Remember, you are not focused on the AMOUNT of the merit aid, but the COST OF ATTENDANCE. A $25,000 merit aid award sounds great, but if Tuition Costs $71,000 per year, you still may not be able to afford that school. Each college’s website will have a Net Price Calculator (NPC) that allows you to key in your basic information to see what the true cost might be for your child. NOTE: If your family situation or finances are complicated, the NPC will not be even close to accurate. Divorce and remarriages, owning your own business, having large assets, etc. will mess up the NPC.

Most families (including my own) fail to pick a TRUE SAFETY school. That means a school that you are guaranteed to be able to afford, that your child is willing to attend. We get caught up in the hype of our child’s stats, and forget there is no admissions guarantee.

Good luck in this process. It is a wild ride. There are thousands of colleges out there to choose from, and surely there is one that will best fit your child and your family’s finances.

19

I would encourage you to spend some time on these boards, especially right now, when both “College Selection” and “College Admissions” are filled with threads by high stat students bemoaning that they were shut out of elite schools and wondering whether they really have to go to their “safety” which they have always considered beneath them.

When you throw in the quest for merit money, the list looks different than the top 20 universities and small colleges. Look at the “stickied” threads on automatic merit money. The general rule is that students who are at the tippy top of stats for the next rung of schools can get some nice merit money – schools which are often mentioned as giving merit money are Tulane, Case Western, Emory (I believe). Liberal arts colleges (LACs) which give merit money to attract the high stat kid include a number of midwest schools, including Kenyon, Oberlin, Grinnell, Denison, Ohio Wesleyan. Research merit money carefully, as many of these schools look to see if a student has demonstrate interest (and is therefore likely to accept). Public flagships, such as Michigan, Wisconsin, Virginia and North Carolina, do not need to use merit money to attract the out of state student so those are not typically a good source of merit money.

Although we have not looked at loans for our kids, I have read here often enough that a student themselves can only borrow $5500. per year, which is not going to make much of a drop in a $60 EFC (expected family contribution). So loans then become parent loans, and that is when you get crazy posts like $240k loans for top 20 school vs. full ride at top 50 school.

The Ivies and the usual other suspects, like Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wash U, Chicago etc., assume that the qualified applicant will have high stats, and are looking for what else the student will contribute. Other considerations are qualities such as being a recruited athlete, serious musician or artist, researchers who are Intel Finalists etc., students who are not just excellent students but will contribute to a rich life on campus. Many parents on CC have advised that there is not a significant difference in admissibility between a 34-36, or a 3.9 vs. 4.0 unweighted – schools expect that range of kids, then they look deeper to see which students will create their next class.

A long way of saying – your son has a fabulous record which will allow you both to craft a list which offers admission and financial safeties, with good merit money, and you can add some reaches. I would suggest researching the wealth of data available on the Common Data Set for each school you are interested in, simply google it, with the school name. It is a form which identifies number of applicants, acceptances, numbers of students applying and being admitted ED, which factors in the admissions application are considered Very Important/ Important/Considered/ Not Considered.

Good luck in your search.

20

If you are looking for scholarships…lots of good info on this thread. Many links. Read through them. You will need to check soecific college websites…because some things listed might have changed.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html#latest