I agree that you need to stop thinking about college admission when you have 9th grader. Your student should be focusing on doing the best they can to adjust to high school and finding activities they enjoy.
It sounds like this child is motivated and needs the extra work is my assumption. But when asking “does art look good on her transcript” then there is a concern.
As stated many colleges have minimums. But they expect the top students to surpass them to be competitive. She should get all she needs in the IB program.
Again, taking classes that meet her high school requirements plus going further and taking classes she’s interested in would be my advice.
Colleges want to see her involved in school activities such as clubs, etc. But it doesn’t all have to happen this first semester.
What does her school counselor think?
You’ve said this about a half dozen times. There is one point that nobody has yet mentioned:
In 3 years, when your daughter applies to colleges, there will be the grand total of zero AOs that will delve into the detail of her freshman course selections. They spend 10 minutes reading the entire application. They are not going to wonder (or care) if she would have been better served taking a class other than APES. So the better question is does the 4 year course selection make her look like an academic wonk with nothing better to do than layer on more AP courses, particularly if the student will be following the IBDP?
If she can handle the academic workload, then fine. If it impedes her time practicing her instrument, playing a sport, volunteering, or the many other things that colleges look at in addition to GPA, then it’s a problem.
It is, but can be replaced by another core subject from Groups 1-4. Personally, I think doing IB arts is a waste of a class, unless the student is truly interested in the subject and/or pursuing a career in arts. But she should still have at least a year of arts, which I would do before junior year.
Hopefully, this was a one-time thing. There are much more productive ways to recharge over the summer than knocking out graduation requirements (or courses not even needed for graduation).
Make sure your child is taking: English, Biology (or whatever the first science of the typical sequence is at the HS), Math (e.g., Algebra, Geometry, ), A history, Foriegn lang and then fill in electives as you wish.
Do not thinK: s/he who has the most AP’s wins.
Stanford U says:
“We expect applicants to pursue a reasonably challenging curriculum, choosing courses from among the most demanding courses available at your school. We ask you to exercise good judgment and to consult with your counselor, teachers and parents as you construct a curriculum that is right for you. Our hope is that your curriculum will inspire you to develop your intellectual passions, not suffer from unnecessary stress. The students who thrive at Stanford are those who are genuinely excited about learning, not necessarily those who take every single AP or IB, Honors or Accelerated class just because it has that designation.”
“The College Board needs to say a similar thing about taking A.P. courses. We have data that taking up to five A.P. courses over the course of high school helps students complete college on time. But there is no evidence that excessively cramming your schedule with A.P. classes advances you. Let us say to students, ‘If you would like to take more than 5 A.P. courses because you love the class, do so, but not to get into college.’
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/opinion/higher-education-double-major-extracurricular-activities.html
Let me state clearly: we do not admit students solely because of their AP courses/scores. There is no minimum or recommended number of AP courses. AP scores are not part of an admission formula… What we are saying is that, despite what you may have heard, college admissions isn’t a game of whoever has the most APs, wins.
https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/on_aps_1/
As was mentioned before, you and your child should not be worried about how it looks to a college or his/her peers. Even “easy” AP courses are more rigorous than regular or honors courses and she won’t be “padding her GPA” if she bites off more than she can chew and gets lower grades in those classes. It is also important to note that she will be taking back to back to back to back AP exams in one week in May. https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/exam-calendar It is often debated on this forum but I personally think it looks suspicious if a student takes AP courses and doesn’t take the exams.
My biggest concern, and the reason I logged on to post, is to ask why she is taking AP EnvSci as a freshman. Yes it is one of the easier AP sciences but look at the pre-reqs for the other AP sciences and make sure she is taking those pre-reqs which are often not AP.
Well. It’s not as simple as all that. Of course they see 9th grade choices. Of course they see the IB successes or not. But in-between, they’re looking for the thinking and awareness. Looking for this, in various ways.
And of course, at some point, if you’re aiming high, you must consider what these colleges want and look for. Stanford is NOT saying: do whatever you want.
And they will take the kids who match what they want.
It’s not as simple as whether or not “we” think enviro is easy or hard. Or that OP says she chose these out of “interest,” at a very young age, first hs courses. There are other ways a kid shows intellectual curiosity. And stretch. Or not. In and out of the high school setting.
Nor is the value in these courses simply based on the supposed rigor of having “AP” in front of the course name.
OP admits she doesn’t know much about how this all works. I still say, the die is cast, with these courses. But OP needs to learn up on what it’s really about. You do have to “work it” and do it right.
“Make sure your child is taking: English, Biology (or whatever the first science of the typical sequence is at the HS), Math (e.g., Algebra, Geometry, ), A history, Foriegn lang and then fill in electives as you wish.”
The OPs D is taking Honors English, Honors Biology, Honors Pre-Calculus, and Spanish 2. That’s as rigorous a schedule as you’re going to find for a freshman. The OP’s D is way beyond geometry.
So if I’m piecing together correctly the full schedule is: Honors English, Honors Biology, Honors Pre-Calculus, Spanish 2, AP Human Geography, AP Psychology, AP Computer Science Principles, and AP Environmental Science. And the only typical freshman AP is AP Human Geography?
I would talk to people at the school - parents of upperclassman and the guidance counselor to understand the workload of those classes. At a minimum, I’d drop one for an art class (fine or performing). Maybe 1 or 2 of the 60 IB Diploma candidates in our school take IB Art or Music - everyone doubles up on one of the other cores. So many universities have an art requirement and it would be a way to ease into the high school transition. At our school AP Environmental Science is a huge time sink - but again that’s why you need to communicate with people who actually know how the classes are taught at your school. I’ve heard several posters talk about AP Comp Sci Principles being tough in their school - I wouldn’t hesitate to have my kid take it as a Freshman at our school at is extremely manageable and has essentially zero homework.
So it looks like the four AP courses are one honors option of the standard frosh social studies course (human geography) and three electives (computer science principles, psychology, environmental science), none of which are normally considered extremely difficult as far as AP courses go.
Of the three electives, there is nothing inherently wrong with taking them. But you should consider whether there will be enough schedule space later to complete all of the usual expected college prep courses as well as high school graduation requirements (note that going into an IB program may restrict the ability to take all of the needed courses, especially since high IB course workloads may prevent adding them as electives while taking IB courses).
In particular, consider whether the future schedule has room for:
(a) a visual or performing arts course
(b) all three of biology, chemistry, and physics (if not, consider replacing AP environmental science with the science that would otherwise be squeezed out)
Other notes:
There will be duplication between AP calculus next year and IB math if she does the IB diploma program. Depending on which IB math courses are offered and which she chooses, AP statistics may be duplicated as well. So that duplication will essentially “waste” some schedule space.
AP computer science A is programming and data structures for prospective computer science majors, though some colleges do not accept it for advanced placement. If she will not be a computer science major, AP computer science principles should be sufficient in that area for high school course work.
Kudos to your D for taking a full schedule. It sounds like she needs that much to keep from being bored. Freshman year of HS is a great time to explore and test her academic limits- how much she can easily handle. There is nothing special about taking AP classes as a HS freshman for those who can handle them.
Do NOT worry about how things look on a college application. I suspect she will be able to add extracurriculars she enjoys to the mix. Next year she can decide if this year was too much work and less time for fun.
I just don’t get the concept of “easy”/“hard” AP classes. Take them for the subject offered, not because some are figured to be harder or easier. For some math is very easy, for others it is English- and for a few both.
OP- do be sure your D takes time to explore after class options. It sounds like she has music covered. Likely academic clubs will be an easy choice as well. Of course she will have 4 HS years’ worth of a foreign language. I recommend some physical activity. My son found running- cross country with track in the spring- a good fit. Your D needs to keep in shape physically as well as stretching her mental muscles. She should be able to enjoy the HS years of her childhood. When the time comes she will be well prepared for the colleges that fit her abilities and interests.
Some cover more material than others (e.g. calculus BC versus AB). Many take a year in high school to cover what a college course covers in a semester. But some cover what a college course covers in a year – these are typically seen as the “hard” ones.
It looks like a nutty schedule to me, but at our high school it is simply not possible to take 8 courses. There aren’t enough periods in the day. I’m not worried about the AP CS for a strong math student. I’d lean toward taking world history over AP human geography because I think it’s a more useful course, but I understand that APHG is a popular offering at other schools. Here in NY we have a two year global history requirement - some student do the AP World for the second year at our school.
As others have said - selective colleges will be looking for:
4 years of English (possibly at the AP level for junior and senior years_
4 years of Math (generally with an AP Calc course senior year, some STEM kids will go beyond this level)
3-4 years of science (biology, chemistry, physics with labs and at least 1 AP)
3-4 years of history/social science - 1 year World History (at our school some advanced students take this at the AP level, 1 year US history (in our school most advanced juniors take this at the AP level), and economics/government (possibly at the AP level) and/or AP History
3-4 years of foreign language
1 year of art/music/drama
other electives that reflect the interest of the student.
Thank you. She is currently involved in a research project and many other things. If her extracurriculars are up to par, would these choices still seem like they lack the “thinking and awareness” that adcoms are looking for?
OP, we al have different perspectives and experieinces here. That’s why you’re getting different answers. Ultimately, you have to decide what’s right for her, what grows her toward her college goals, and what’s reasonably manageable.
I don’t think most parents or kids can say the ECs are “up to par” just based on one high school you know. And if you do plan to aim her for a tippy top, “par” isn’t it.
OP- I am no expert here just a mom of a senior and sophomore. My two cents-
I would consider meeting with a school counselor that is more familiar with the school and courses provided at her school and give your daughter a challenging but balanced schedule. She seems to be motivated and excited to start high school but in reality this is just the beginning. Working too hard too early may be counterproductive in her future HS career. She may end up being burn out early and not do so well later on. She should also find an outlet to enjoy being a teenager, a sport, instrument, a club- anything- that she truly enjoys regardless of how it would look on her college application. Best of luck!
Thank you all for the help!
I just wanted to add to those who point out that the answer to the question depends on what the school permits, and what the kid is ready for. My D took 4 APs as a HS freshman, ended up with 18 in total, and was valedictorian. She figured out in 7th grade that the only way to be competitive for the val/sal honor (and the full-tuition scholarship to Flagship State) was to take the AP courses with the added GPA weight.
But she could handle it - she was an exceptional student, and she needed to be challenged. She could (read/process/absorb) very very fast, and she could write a 10 page paper in under an hour - while many of her friends would complain about spending all weekend with homework in a single course, she’d have finished that classwork Friday afternoon. Not all schools allow this, and not all kids can handle it.
D graduated from Stanford earlier this year. She had plenty of great ECs and her essays/rec letters were amazing. There were other kids there who had a lot of AP’s, and many who did not have nearly as many. For her, she believed the AP’s were helpful because they boosted her class rank, and made her do her best work. She is convinced she wouldn’t have been considered if she had taken only 5 or 6 AP’s - it probably would have knocked her class rank out of the top 10, and she’d have been bored.
I am not saying this to brag, but more to reassure OP that It is perfectly fine for kids, and parents, to be thinking about the impact that freshman year courses will have on their future college application process.
Not all hs go on weighted rank. And she would have needed to be a lot more than all those AP.
Clearly, she was. And knew how to show more.
For others, it’s a mistake to assume the stats are the primary “it.” Or a few club titles, awards, etc.
3puppies, what were the 9th grade AP?
Agree, but for the schools that do go on weighted rank it is important. And my pups had the option of 8 classes (plus they could do independent study), which is not always available at all schools. But the very top schools are only interested in the kids who excel and make the most given the options available to them. Since schools are different, and choices are different, there is no set answer to how many is right.
As I recall, the freshman AP classes she took were Psych, Stats, Geo, and Comp Sci.
It was helpful to have a great guidance counselor who “got it”, and she knew our family since her own kids played with ours on youth soccer, or attended Harry Potter releases together, etc.