4 time first chair all-region: how common?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Hello all, just registered today.</p>

<p>My son is a Bass II, a senior-to-be in the largest high school (3,300 students, a "Blue ribbon" high school) in his state. His choir program is acknowleged to be one of the nation's best, definitely the best in the state (which is one of the smaller states in the US south).</p>

<p>He's currently a four-time all-region first chair Bass/Bass II since 8th grade. We'll see if he's able to continue that streak one final time in October. I just wondered how common it is for someone to make first chair four straight years in a difficult region? His high school is in a metro area of approximately 1/2 million...but this area is very much like suburban Atlanta or Dallas, with a strong number of educated-to-very-educated transplants from other areas, and currently a lot of money to spend on the arts.)</p>

<p>I know it will come down to the college auditions, but I've been curious how difficult it is in a competitive high school region to make all-region first chair all four years he's competed. (BTW, he's twice made all-state the two years he's been eligible to compete, 3rd chair as a sophomore and 7th chair as a junior. All three of the last first chair Bass IIs as well as this years first chair Bass I came out of his region and he's beaten every one of them, some more than once, in the region competition.)</p>

<p>Thank you in advance.</p>

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<p>The regional is nice, but the All–State though lower chair is probably a better indicator. Making anything four years is good when you think of all the things that can go wrong during an audition. Are there any regional choirs that he could get involved in?</p>

<p>A friend’s daughter just got a dandy scholarship to Peabody. She had participated in that school’s orchestra, plus another area orchestra. Our state only has county and state competition; I think that she made all-state twice–this year first chair.</p>

<p>It varies so much from state to state. I know there are many music people on this forum.</p>

<p>I wrote this whole thing thinking he played the bass, but he sings bass. I am off the music forum.</p>

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<p>MDMom, thank you. My son’s a singer - he sings in our church choir but focuses the rest of his talent in his high school choir. (He’s carrying an honors class load and is talented in visual arts, poetry/writing and mathematics. He says he wants to teach music in some fashion but isn’t sure what he wants to do yet.)</p>

<p>The “state-to-state” part is the trickiest. He’s also been “Outstanding male choir member” three years straight (though not this year in chamber choir, where a senior rightfully gets that honor), has gotten a Division I/Superior rating at the last two state solo/ensemble festivals and has also been a two-time scholarship award winner as “Outstanding Male Camper” of the state’s largest choir camp…but again, all these accomplishments are in this smaller southern state. Unlike in, say, swimming or track, where one can compare one’s times against others in other states, there’s really no such measurement state-to-state in music that I’m aware of.</p>

<p>(There’s one other factor as well - he’s got his faults just like any person, but we’ve raised him to be humble, and I’d far rather him have that trait than be prideful. However, in some of the schools we visited in April (both in Tennessee, Belmont and Vanderbilt) the people we talked with almost encouraged the kids to brag on their achievements when they introduced themselves. This, too, is something I don’t know whether we’ll have to address in college auditions.)</p>

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<p>I, too, have tried to raise humble kids. I brag about them enough. The young woman with the Peabody scholarship is also very sweet and humble. Your son can practice answering questions with you. I think most adults see through the really slick kids–that is my hope. </p>

<p>One thing you can do, is let him practice interviewing and auditioning at a couple of schools that are lower on his list. It really is difficult when you have a very talented child, whom you love more than anything, to figure out where he/she ranks in the whole scheme of things. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Let his voice show his capability while his words show his character.</p>

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<p>He should be able to rely on his voice teacher for an indication of how he compares to others. I don’t mean his choir teacher - I assume he has a private voice teacher. There can be a big difference between choral technique and the solo technique and he will be expected to have a healthy solo technique in order to be competitive for merit scholarships. He is at an advantage simply because he is a male and a bass. The numbers are in his favor. </p>

<p>I can’t see much value in bragging because he will be judged by his vocal talent, no matter what accolades he has received to date.</p>

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<p>It is an indicator of relative talent from a microcosm of the large pool of national (and international) talent out there. Better indicators might include success among national audition based intensive/immersion programs.</p>

<p>Agree with cartera45, that the best source of comparison could well be his private instructor, and other professionals knowledgeable with gauging “conservatory level” potential and talent.</p>

<p>Some prior threads:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/861731-texas-all-state.html?highlight=all+state[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/861731-texas-all-state.html?highlight=all+state&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/294700-all-state-chorus-how-important.html?highlight=all+state[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/294700-all-state-chorus-how-important.html?highlight=all+state&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/504562-all-state-vocal-competition-states-if-any-toughest.html?highlight=all+state[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/504562-all-state-vocal-competition-states-if-any-toughest.html?highlight=all+state&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>At my son’s college auditions, he was never asked to introduce himself or tell anything about himself. As others have said, the expectation at auditions is that the music will speak for itself. No amount of bragging can compensate for a poor performance at the audition. If the performance is excellent, then an absence of braggadocio will speak to character.</p>

<p>I know that some audition committees do ask questions at the audition (and this seems more likely at smaller schools that have more time and at vocal auditions where the repertoire takes less time), but I think that the committee would be somewhat alarmed by a student that began bragging or listing accomplishments, unless they specifically asked something along the lines of, “What major competitions have you won?” I have never heard of that sort of question at auditions. I think that a committee will be far more impressed with a confident humble auditioner than with someone that comes across as a braggart (the know-it-alls can be painful or impossible to teach). </p>

<p>Many schools do request a resume or curriculum vitae as part of the application. This is where significant accomplishments can be listed. If one sticks to the facts in the resume, then it cannot be construed as bragging.</p>

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<p>The audition is what will count and you cannot tell audition results by state level chorus results. Agree that a good private teacher that has sent students into high level programs,not a chorus director, is the best judge. </p>

<p>DD’s senior year the state level chorus selection team for our area decided they wanted “blending” voices and not solo voices. They selected 2nd tier singers from DD’s school, leaving most of the top tier and top scoring singers out. These were singers that had scored highest for the earlier state honors choir. . The results of 2 different state chorus selections were diametrically opposite, in the same state in the same year. Different judges. As for the honors, just list in the resume. The only one that received comments for DD was the NFAA application.</p>

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<p>My Jr. and Sr. years of H.S. I wondered where I ranked in the grand scheme of things. It also didn’t help my curiousness any that majors in my voice type, especially in my area, are few and far between. I really had no way of judging where I was besides my voice teacher and the professors at various universities. I think this is partially why I went on so many auditions. I was curious, and wanted as much feedback as possible.</p>

<p>I did Solo and Ensemble festival as well every year, 2 or 3 different vocal solos a year in different range categories. But my I ratings weren’t comparable to anyone else’s, and the feedback from each judge varied heavily.</p>

<p>I then turned to honor choirs. I think I did 11 or 12 of them in three years time. It was nice to know that I could get into such local/state/regional/national choris by audition, but ocne again they were mainly tape auditions and so many different factors applied. </p>

<p>I also turned to competitions when I wanted heavier evaluations of my sound. I got the best feedback from these competitions, and was blessed enough to have gained knowledge from each experience, let alone scholarship money/awards.</p>

<p>I suggest finding competitions both in and out of the state where unbiased judges can give honest feedback. This is the kind of feedback you will need if you want your son to have a peace of mind about where he ranks in the scheme of thins (if talking with people you already know isn’t enough).</p>

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<p>Thanks, all. These are some GREAT threads.</p>

<p>My son’s vocal teacher is also his choral teacher, but this teacher, again, has quietly built up an incredible program. He got his bachelor’s from Ithaca College, NY, finished his master’s a year or two ago and is now readying for his doctorate. He made clear to my son and I that choral music and the type of music needed to get into a school like the Curtis Institute (which he recommended my son check out) are two very different things. In the three years my son has been at his high school the Chamber Choir kids have gone on to Indiana University-Bloomington, North Texas, Michigan, Maryland, Tulsa, Oral Roberts, Missouri State (<a href=“http://www.concertchorale.com%5B/url%5D”>http://www.concertchorale.com</a> - has a regional reputation but a great choir program), Brigham Young, Washington University-St. Louis…I’d say most and possibly all of those are studying music.</p>

<p>Again, the saying goes: “You don’t want your child in the best school, but the school that’s best for them.” My son was originally thinking lower and the teacher has got him thinking higher - however, I want my son to be at the place where he’ll learn a lot AND be comfortable. In the end, it will be his choice, as it should be.</p>

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<p>DS and DD were first chair on their instruments in the All State orchestras in this state for multiple years. When both attended their first summer music program (which attracted students from all over the world) they quickly discovered that EVERY student there was the first chair back home. The first year at that summer program, DS was 3rd chair in the orchestra…he was lucky to get IN to the orchestra. DD made the wind ensemble and she was not first chair.</p>

<p>Ours is a pretty competitive state but being with students from other geographic locations was a wake up call to both of my kids…who are pretty talented.</p>

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<p>Caveat: I know nothing about voice.</p>

<p>I think that All State, etc, are great pieces of the puzzle to have. It is an objective evaluation of your S’s ability, based on a self-selected group of people with similar interests and aspirations. It is a first step toward finding out what it’s like to swim in a bigger pond. The fact that your S has consistently done well means that he is one of the larger fish in that pond!</p>

<p>It is still only a piece. Taken in conjuction with teacher opinion, other competitions, summer programs, etc, those pieces begin to point a certain direction. Do they point to a career on the opera stage? Not a big enough piece to see the whole picture yet. </p>

<p>Still, it is a step in the right direction. Yes, it is possible to be top of the heap and not be “good enough” on a larger scale, but it is less likely to be top of the heap and have no talent whatsoever.</p>

<p>I may have told this story before: My S had a “rough” (relatively speaking) junior year of high school. That year, he was coming in second in various spots. Youth orchestra. All State. At that point, I developed a severe case of doubts that he could make it as a musician. Not even first in the state - how could he hope to be one of the top people in the country - or world - when it came time to conservatory admissions? My thinking was, even top in the state still only meant “top 50” in the country. I confessed my fears to his teacher, who scolded me for not believing in S, and said my thinking was skewed.</p>

<p>A year later, my kid was one of 4 on his instrument accepted to Juilliard. Another of the 4 was the girl who beat him out in youth orchestra and All State. So, two of the 4 admitted were from the same city, and had studied with the same teacher! (And neither had connections, by the way. We are a long way from NYC. Not to get bogged down in details, but by senior year, we had moved, so S did not “appear” on paper to be from the same place as the other student.)</p>

<p>My point is you can’t read too much into the results, but it IS possible to read something.</p>

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<p>I guess my first question is does your son want to study chorus music or solo performance, big difference. If he is looking toward a choral degree you might look into Westminster Choral College or St. Olaf’s. I think what you may be asking is if your sons accomplishments are an indication of his talent level and how that will affect his acceptance into college. Maybe…if he is looking toward a solo career look into the NFAA competition. There are lots of good summer programs that will give him a clear idea of where he stands amongst the current emerging talent pool as thumper has stated above. As stated above being a male and a bass is a tremendous boost toward admittance. I think once it is clear which path he wants to go down it will be easier to give you the proper answers. My son is a VP senior and as I recall during his college auditions (and the audition is the most important thing) there was not an opportunity for “bragging” or a laundry list of his accomplishments, just a casual interview in most cases.</p>

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<p>Found out today also that two more of the Chamber kids at my son’s school are going to (and singing at) the U of Arkansas and the Berklee School of Music in addition to the aforementioned list I posted last night, so hopefully the competition in-school has helped him. Wish I’d known about the music summer festivals but we’ll just have to see how well he does this next year. Again, thanks for all the advice.</p>

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<p>My daughter’s friend was the first chair Bass II in our state, and was also an honor student, good SAT’s etc. He was accepted into Westminster with the Presidential Scholarship, and also got into Hart, but not with the financial package he wanted. He’s doing music ed. I’m not sure if this answers your question - but if he chooses music ed w/ choral emphasis, he’s probably in good shape. As has been said earlier - solo/Vocal Performance is another beast.</p>