<p>We were discussing retirement with a financial planner (even though we are about 95 years away from the possibility), and he mentioned that New Jersey used to tax 401K plans many years ago, and this year it went to vote in the State Senate, as a possibility, to cover the cwappy deficit.
But it went down in flames.
The thought is chilling though.</p>
<p>some schools are known for offering more money
CC comes in handy to find out about these schools- Colgate- Holyoke- Smith are known for very generous awards- my nieces have practically a free ride at Colgate including room and board.
Other schools are known to not give great aid- it seems that JHU may be one and I know for sure NYU has a rep for not offering aid. Oftentimes it seems as their endowments are just as high as other schools who DO offer aid- so perhaps they are just saving it for buildings or something ?
My daughter gets a big grant from her school ( along with sub loans_ but I have also heard from people on the board that they didn't offer enough money- which emphasizes the thought to apply to a range of schools and comparable schools to have more choices)</p>
<p>( incidentally debt doesn't help for financial aid- they seem to mostly look at income)</p>
<p>While a stellar student can get Merit Aid from a school that is a step down, where does an average student go for merit aid, when the step down is the bottom. We on CC are so used to the amazing talented multi-faceted students here, that we forget about the 99% out there. I still believe that the majority of students who DO NOT QUALIFY for need-based aid, are not that likely to get merit aid. I am not saying that they are paying $40,000, because obviously there are lower priced private schools, and then State schools.</p>
<p>We are fortunate that our D has many choices available, with and without merit $$, but I really feel for those who don't get anything.</p>
<p>Schools admit 1000's of freshman, and hand out 100 merit scholarships....</p>
<p>I agree merit scholarships can be hard to find- local scholarships associated with parents workplace- high school- community organization can be first line of attack.
My daughter had decent grades and scores but not great and only was offered merit aid from her 2nd choice school an instate public college ( she was invited to apply for honors program at out of state public however) She is a very good writer and submitted essays for which she received money for freshman year- but since then nada.
We were surprised that public instate schools don't offer that much. A friend who was national merit scholar didn't get as much from the school as she hoped although she did also recieve a state sponsored merit based ( that also looked at need)
It is so important to have savings for college- ( in the parents names) particulary for those who have the resources to put quite a bit away. It will be a nasty shock to those who haven't :(</p>
<p>"It kills me that friends of ours who enjoy new cars every three years, have the most gorgeously decorated house, and spend, spend, spend, are in debt up to their eyeballs, with not a dime in the bank and they will probably reap the rewards of financial aid when their kids go to school."</p>
<p>ditto</p>
<p>but look at the bright side. If your son goes to Princeton or ND or Hopkins, you can 'award' him the 'merit' money for sure. Your buddies may not. !!!!</p>
<p>"It kills me that friends of ours who enjoy new cars every three years, have the most gorgeously decorated house, and spend, spend, spend, are in debt up to their eyeballs, with not a dime in the bank and they will probably reap the rewards of financial aid when their kids go to school."</p>
<p>That's actually not true. Colleges don't have a lot of sympathy for people who ran up credit card debt and other types of debt to have a luxurious lifestyle that the family can't afford. I have heard this directly from Harvard's financial aid officers. They don't view families as being needy if the families have been using their income to pay for a lifestyle far above their means.</p>
<p>Harvard is one of the country's most generous colleges when it comes to financial aid, so I imagine that other colleges would be even less sympathetic to such families.</p>
<p>"where does an average student go for merit aid, when the step down is the bottom. "</p>
<p>A truly average student -- meaning a C student with no ECs except possibly some club memberships -- would go to their local community college where the costs are cheap anyway.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, "merit scholarships" really do mean that a student has to have some kind of merit within the college's application pool. If a student truly is average with no factors that even a mediocre college finds especially attractive, the student would have "earned" an acceptance, but would not be deserving of merit aid.</p>
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Because we are being asked by one school to pay very near that, even with a small school grant and scholarship (although we may get more from private local scholarships). I don't see how people do it. If there is a magic answer, please share!
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I just don't agree that no-one pays full-price to go to school. You can only speak for yourself, and the personal situations you know of. I myself know plenty of people that pay full price. They are the ones caught in the middle. Income not low enough to qualify for financial aid, GPA and SAT not high enough to qualify for the extremely limited merit aid offered by few schools.
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Looks like many posters misunderstood what I said. I answered it in my post: I said no one pays $40,000 - and referring to the OP, I meant PARENT - unless they choose to because there are so many **OUTSIDE **scholarships and fellowships available, as I already said (with no effort, S got $20,000, and I wonder what would happen if he put in some effort?); students can pay part by summer jobs and their own businesses (I siad my son paid $10,000 this way); there are things like RA positions available, etc. etc. etc. You have to do a little hustling, but there are paid internships, aid summer research positions, etc. </p>
<p>I think my post was pretty clear. I was not referring to getting aid from the school - I was very clearly referring to getting money from other sources so the parent does not have to write out a check for $40,000 every year!</p>
<p>LMK where these outside scholarships are. No effort - people just called to give you S money? My S had a 1540, 3.765 UW GPA, has his own business, Eagle Scout, V soccer, NHS Treas, yadda, yadda, yadda. We've applied for over 40 outside scholarships and we sure don't have $20k rolling in. You act like everyone in the world gets a boatload of cash in outside money. It just ain't so.</p>
<p>Voronwe, cam you please give us specifics on merit scholarships? Which ones to apply for? You are indeed the only poster I've seen here feel good about outside sources of money, what's the secret?</p>
<p>Zagat - my son (with single-sitting SATS not even hitting 1400) has gotten every single scholarship he has applied for. He applied for all the local and regional ones we learned about from our area (you can find them on the net, if not at your school than at neighboring schools' GC websites - especially in wealthy districts, or private schools). He also did a websearch for more obscure ones that only required an essay - in some cases, NO ONE ELSE applied! Many of those were for $2,000-$3,000. </p>
<p>I don't understand what happened in macattak's son's case - maybe the essays weren't good enough - maybe they were scholarships too many people applied for. My son was careful to select scholarships he knew he had a great shot at. No, no one just "called" and gave him money - he did the searching. But now at college, professors are telling him about all kinds of scholarships for kids already in college, and telling him they will sponsor him.</p>
<p>A relative won a Carpe Diem - national scholarship, $5,000 a year -that alone was $20,000, what my son got overall.</p>
<p>LMK where these outside scholarships are. No effort - people just called to give you S money? My S had a 1540, 3.765 UW GPA, has his own business, Eagle Scout, V soccer, NHS Treas, yadda, yadda, yadda. We've applied for over 40 outside scholarships and we sure don't have $20k rolling in. You act like everyone in the world gets a boatload of cash in outside money. It just ain't so.</p>
<p>I agree with the above, although my son doesn't quite have as much as the above, he is gifted none-the-less and went on fastweb and applied for about a dozen applicable ones. Nothing...................nothing................nothing....</p>
<p>Mommypain, did you see my answer to this just above yours? We did not use fastweb - we found mostly regional and local ones. The ones we got on the net were by putting in a very specific interest. I am not going to specify which one, but it was environmentally related. We found businesses and nonprofits who were offering scholarships that no one was applying for.</p>
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You are indeed the only poster I've seen here feel good about outside sources of money, what's the secret?
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</p>
<p>Clearly part of the secret is a really optimistic, can-do attitude followed by putting one's shoulder to the wheel! I used to keep a folder of clippings about kids who won like $100,000 in scholarships --- I had about two dozen newspaper and magazine stories about big winners before it got lost in a move -- and what characterized them all was a refusal to be sidetracked be negativity. Seriously, I'll bet these kids didn't spend a lot of time saying, "It's impossible; nobody gets these; I'll never win; who are you kidding" etc. but they just keep trying, being super creative, thinking outside the box and looking where everyone else wasn't looking!</p>
<p>Another part of the trick would be as V. said: apply for ones you can reasonably get - ones where few people apply; ones that have something to do with something you are good at. V's son looked for certain kinds of environmental scholarships not listed on fastweb; one of my own kids looked for ones that had to do with environmental remediation, since they'd done projects on the topic.</p>
<p>The key is that they found them by themselves, by looking around. It's an entirely different attitude and mindset than asking on a message board or on fastweb, where a zillion people are looking. </p>
<p>It's like finding a job. Kids often whine that there is nothing in the paper; others go out and create jobs for themselves by starting a business or by getting to know someone through volunteering, etc. - in other words by GOING THROUGH OTHER CHANNELS than the want ads.</p>
<p>Works for scholarship money too. My kids did even better than V's and we are not eligible for financial aid.</p>
<p>I love some of the ideas on this thread! For a family to give "merit" awards to their kids is really a wonderful one. I never saw it put that way, but I will certainly use that idea as I love the way it presents. Many families I know can afford an expensive education, but struggle to justify it because it is not going to be an easy endeavor as they will feel every check. Sometimes it is worth it to do, sometimes not.</p>
<p>It really takes some thinking and discussing when a family has to make a decision as to whether or not an expensive alternative should be considered. Sometimes it is easy. Kid has always dreamed to go to Harvard, family has always supported the dream, and vicariously enjoyed it as well. Kid is accepted; cost because a reality. Not gonna be easy to do. All those well wishers who tell you that NO ONE DOES NOT GO to H because they can't afford it; H will cough it up, are WRONG. YOU have to cough it up unless your financial statements indicated need. But for Harvard, for a lifelong dream, everyone pitches in. But I often see another situation that I feel is a real pitfall occur, mainly in families who really don't know much about colleges, want their students to get exactly what they want, and are willing to truly sacrifice. Such families might break the bank, spend the retirement money, borrow, take out a second mortgage for CMU vs Pitt Honors Programs with Chancellor's scholarship. Even if the kid is not really so sure what he wants to study, has no directed interest so that you can point to the program and say "this is one of the best in the country". And sometimes it is not worth it. I have seen variations on this theme that are quite sad, in how much it puts back the family financially, and often for no good reason. Or it could be for a college that the kid just gets a fixation on because friends are going there, or something caught their fancy at that school. My close friend shakes her head about her stepdaughter who is going to be $60K+ in debt going to a private business college that is 4th level on the USNWR scale (which though is an imperfect measure gives some indication of some worth). Coming out of that school does not give the graduate a likelihood of making the type of money to pay off that kind of loan. The girl had a choice of any number of state schools that could have given her the program she wants and what her father is paying would have been 100% of the cost with some left over. And they are rated much more highly than this school. But somehow this girl and her mother got fixated on this school, and decided that it had to be this and is well worth the debt. And maybe it is. But a family should really look at the picture carefully and try not to let emotion take over completely.</p>
<p>I love your analogy, Nedad, about finding scholarships being like finding a job. My kids find high paying jobs very easily. They seem to just fall in their laps. Whereas many of their peers are complaining there are none to be found. In truth, regarding scholarship, I was the one who found them and basically pushed the apps under their noses. The smaller local ones are the best bet, as are specific ones offered by colleges that really fit your kid's profile. I have found that Catholic highschools are the absolute best in finding some of the most obscure local scholarships, and I shamelessly piggy back off of them from their web sites to picking anyone's brains who might have the info. I still lurk on my older son's old highschool's website, looking at the goodies posted there. I have found other good catholic highschool websites that list scholarships as well. If your child goes to an independent prep school, they may not be in tune with the scholarship scene which is a great failing of these schools. Your public school guidance office would be more helpful, and they would not mind if you schedule a visit there for a peek. You are paying school taxes even if your kid is not going there. You really have to keep your eyes open. I was with a friend doing errands one day, and picked up info on a number of college scholarship opportunities. Though she has one that is applying this year, she did not see a single sign that I did, and when she finally asked about what info I was seeking, she dismissed the whole thing as a waste of time for those hundreds of dollars that no one gets. Maybe. Except I know the no ones who get that money and hundreds can turn into thousands. </p>
<p>As for truly average students--C students in college prep courses who score around 1000 on the SATs, there truly is little out there if there is no hook. As NSM says, these kids may be candidates for community college or local colleges if the family cannot shell out the money for a private "away" college, and there is not much eligibility for financial aid. It really depends on what is available. In PA, for instance, it is not Penn State at University Park or bust. There are a number of satellite campuses that are open in admission, and you can register at main campus once you attain junior status. Also there are a number of schools like Slippery Rock, Indiana U of Penn, Millersville, West Chester, Clarion, that are relatively inexpensive and not so selective but can offer a complete college experience. For those who want to really search around, there are a number of such alternatives open where even the out of state cost is not exhorbitant and the admissions more open. A friend of mine who lives in Maine, sent his son to Logan, Utah for college at Utah State (?). He returned after two years to finish up in New England, but the costs were quite comparable. </p>
<p>Kids can also work--many hours, double shifts, multiple jobs during the summer and weekends and breaks after first term senior year to earn that money. I am aghast when I suggest this to families who are saying they just can't afford a private college and the nasty financial aid offices are saying they can, and when I suggest that their kids works his tail off this summer, the response is that the kid wants to just take it easy or travel!! What a luxery! My kids worked 90 hours a week at times in the summer. S is raking it in over spring break. Yeah, many of his friends are on ski trips, and in Europe and just waiting for the college acceptances, but he is making money. Lots of it. Not easy or fun, but he is young and able. </p>
<p>Another idea for cutting costs is taking a "sophomore semester away". Most college courses for the first two years are pretty general and can be taken anywhere. Many times that second year tuition can really hurt. Instead of junior year abroad at the same cost as that expensive school kid is attendin, take off a term sophomore year and get some of those lower level requirements taken care of a a cheap cc or local state school and work as well. And over the summer as well. This can be a real boone for families who do not qualify for financial aid but are struggling with paying a private school tuition but feel it is worth if for that school. You can give yourself an nice half scholarship for junior year that way!</p>
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Kids can also work--many hours, double shifts, multiple jobs during the summer and weekends and breaks after first term senior year to earn that money. I am aghast when I suggest this to families who are saying they just can't afford a private college and the nasty financial aid offices are saying they can, and when I suggest that their kids works his tail off this summer, the response is that the kid wants to just take it easy or travel!! What a luxery! My kids worked 90 hours a week at times in the summer. S is raking it in over spring break.
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Good for your kids, Jamimom! That is so awesome! I hesitate to say that there is an awful lot of whining on this board. I know, I know - people are sad when they don't get the aid from the college. But snap out of it and kwitcherbellyakin! Where there is a will, there's a way. My first husband worked night shifts to put himself through school, and as I said above, my pays $10,000 a year for his education from his own work (and business!). I sometimes get in the kind of mood that says, "Kids like Jamimom's DESERVE to go to college because they aren't expecting a handout!"</p>
<p>Sorry, end of rant! [/rant] I am just so proud of Jamimom's kids, and I don't even know them!</p>
<p>Voronwe, thanks for the thumbs up. I am terribly depressed this week over a bunch of things, not the least over my son who is working very hard over spring break instead going to the islands, Europe or Alaska like his friends, but has been causing some issues in other areas. Part of the reason he is at home and working is because of the money we are putting out for tutors to ensure he gets a decent end of the year report as his midyer one is dismal, and H and I are not one bit happy with him. S was not happy when we told him that he needed to not only put in some time academically, but that he was behaving like a silver spoon kid with the money we have spent on him, not only for the tutoring but for all of the auditions he did for college to give him ultimate flexibility in his direction. So, yes, he is working, but a bit begrudgingly but he has really raked in the tips (he's a singing waiter at a country club, and a big hit there!), and is now very proud of the money he earned. But for all you parents out there, he was not such a go getter about doing this--he would have much rather gone on some senior trip. And guess what? If things had played out a little differently we may have let him go and paid for it. But this is giving him much more self esteem, and it seems like once he got on a roll, he was really into getting the bank out growing and being able to say, "I paid you back". But just to let all of you parents out there know, it's not like he skipped delightedly to look for a job. We had to really lay the facts out for him. And in our particular case, we had made the commitment to pay for his college--we do not qualify for financial aid, and he goes to a school where parents would be honored to pay for a top school for their kids and more. It is easy to want to give, give, give like "The Giving Tree" to the kids, especially when they accomplish great things, but I do feel that instilling a work ethic and giving them an opportunity to earn some the college costs helps them grow up as well. My older kids grew up remembering how tight things were, and so they were always looking for ways to make money for college and cut those costs down. This one has had it easy, as we did have the money as long as he can remember, but he hates being told that he is acting like Richie Rich. I think that even families that can comfortably pay the whole ball of wax should think about getting their kids learning about finances unless the family trust fund is going to be able to support these kids for the rest of their live. I know too many parents who are aghast that their brilliiant, wonderful kids to whom they gave everything expect to continue to live at the family standard of living when their first jobs (and many to come, most likely) really put them close to poverty level. Lessons of austerity are not learned from just talking about the subject.</p>
<p>I'm surprised kids on this board aren't tutoring. My son started tutoring algebra 1 when he was 15 (he had taken algebra 1 in eighth grade). The gifted and talented teacher at the high school announced there were two openings. I'm not sure how many kids tried for these jobs. My son tracked down the teacher and was given the choice of tutoring an eighth grader or a HS freshman. He chose the younger kid. Through this job (he is still tutoring this kid weekly and will throughout the year), he was referred to another classmate, picking up yet another job. The best part is he gets $25/hr so that's $50/week for 2 hrs work. Apparently this family was paying a teacher to tutor him who charged even more than this. When their son wasn't doing any better academically, the middle school suggested getting a teenage tutor - that some kids learn better from other kids. When my son called about the job, he didn't know how much to charge since he had never tutored for $ before (just helping other kids out at school). The mom offered $25. My son agreed, thinking it was $25 for the 2 hr session. My son was thinking $10/hr so he was glad he hadn't said anything about price. He learned a valuable lesson - don't sell yourself short. He also learned that not all kids work as hard as he does. He finds it extremely frustrating and told the kid that he couldn't help if the kid doesn't do the practice work. Just showing up for tutoring won't guarantee success. He now understands why teachers sometimes show frustration with their students.</p>
<p>My daughter is a Scottish Highland dancer. Not very common. She has been hired on numerous occasions to perform at Scottish events and even danced in a play in NYC. Great experiences and she got paid for them.</p>
<p>Sometimes kids don't see all the opportunities out there. I always had a job since I was 11. It gives kids a sense of accomplishment. My daughter has been given work study and I expect her to do it (for spend $, travel $, etc). Plus working on campus gives freshman a chance to meet others. Friends can be found everywhere.</p>
<p>I'm actually a student. The people on this thread seems pretty knowledgeable about college financial packages, so I thought I'd ask. I received some strange packages. Both Yale and Harvard offered me more money than Johns Hopkins, which didn't give me any financial aid (all merit). Is this common? :-/</p>
<p>I'm afraid to interject lest a parent bites my head off too.</p>
<p>Anyways, some schools are still dishing out their fin aid letters... so perhaps with JH they send merit out first, and then fin aid. This is so with me; two of mine have sent acceptances/fin aid letters at the same time, and the remaining two I've gotten merit scholarships from, but not fin aid. Ask around the JH board and see if they've gotten fin aid letters; if they have, a nice call to JH fin aid is probably in the schedule somewhere.</p>