Please help my Junior to find an answer whether she should continue 4th year of foreign language or take AP Music Theory.
Last year as Sophomore, she did French 3 Honor. 3 years recommendation was already fulfilled.
This year she wanted just French 4 (she is not interested pursuing AP French though most of kids last year are going for), but now thinking about dropping it so she can take AP Music Theory.
She wants to raise her non-weighted academic GPA because she has one C and a couple of Bs. For that reason, should she do French? AP Music Theory is non-academic, but will colleges value total GPAs too?
She has not yet decided whether she wants to major music or or take premed in college. She hasn’t made her college list either.
She should take the class that interests her the most.
There is no major “premed” at most schools. Students interested in medicine, or any other health field, including vet med, just need to fulfill the prerequisites, regardless of major. Technically she could be a premed as a music major. It would be hard though as the curriculum won’t align well with prerequisites.
is it possible to take the 4th year of french this year while still fresh and take AP music sr year? Colleges will see it when her current schedule is listed on applications.
Music or other arts are commonly considered academic courses. Where did the notion that they are “non-academic” come from? After all, colleges offer courses and majors in music and other arts, and some colleges specialize in them.
Both level 4 foreign language and visual or performing arts may be desired by some colleges. If she takes one this year, will she take the other the following year? How much interest does she have in each course?
One daughter took AP Music Theory. She loved it, but it is definitely a very hard class. It might be most appropriate for someone who is very good at music and also a strong student, and who wants to do it. I do not understand what would be “non academic” about it.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I would be surprised if the difference made much difference in terms of university admissions, and she is more likely to do well if she is doing what she wants.
I also would be tempted, if she is going to take French 4 at all, to do it right after taking French 3 without a break. At least in my experience practicing French outside of class can also be very valuable. Let me know if you want suggestions for some sources (I occasionally dabble with trying to remember how to speak French).
I agree that it is academic, but it’s not a core class.
I would not replace a core class (foreign language) with a non-core. I would also be hesitant about assuming that all colleges where you child will apply will count the middle school year of foreign language towards the 3 or 4 year expectation. Some may, but more selective schools will not.
I’m unclear about a couple things. AP Music Theory would be a weighted class almost anywhere so how does that help her “unweighted” GPA? It’s also unlikely to be easier than another year of language unless she is a great ear and natural ability to memorize chords or is not good at her foreign language. Also, my understanding is most colleges look at how many years of a language a student takes in HS, not what level they took through. The typical student at my kids HS starts at level 3 unless it’s Latin. They don’t stop because they completed level 4 Sophomore year — they do through AP and maybe level 6. To each their own on what they choose to take, just curious what the level completed has to do with how many years taken.
Most colleges are not particularly clear about this on their web sites. California publics are among the few that are explicit about this (based on their validation policy), and they look at level completed or equivalent.
However, level completed is always important. It seems doubtful that any college would prefer seeing four different level 1 foreign language courses over two foreign language courses at levels 2 and 3 (after level 1 prior to high school).
Many high schools’ foreign language courses go up only to level 4 (with level 4 being the AP level). So a student in such a high school who places into level 3 in 9th grade will complete the highest level after 10th grade and two years of foreign language courses in high school.
I can’t speak for thousands of unique colleges but among those whose websites I have read (which are disproportionately highly rejective schools), most say they recommend at least 3 years of foreign language in high school. Some say 4, many specify “in one language.” They refer to number of years taken in HS, not level completed, just as they refer to number of years of take math regardless of the level of math. They are looking for students to consistently study a second language along side other core academic subjects. Colleges will know from a school’s profile if a student completes the top language offered at the school in fewer than 3-4 years, though that does’t sound like it’s the situation in this case.
Actually…we toured 28 colleges and every single one said level completed. So if they wanted “4” then Spanish 4 or French 4 would satisfy the four year FL requirement even if some of it was taken in middle school.
Please tell us which colleges say that all four years of FL need to be taken in the high school years.
RE the OPs question. I agree with others. The Student should take what interests them. But agree that the level 4 language should be completed in junior year. Then take music theory senior year. Is there a reason not to do this.
We’ve taken a very similar # of colleges tours (and info sessions) as you between all our kids.
This exact question came up in every single of your 28 tours? In our tours and info sessions it was not a common question, unless we asked it. Or was there a reason you were asking it specifically? In any event, we had a reason to ask it and did so in roughly 1/3 of our tours/info sessions (and looked it up in additional cases) and consistently got the opposite answer as you. We must be touring a different type of school for our experiences to be so consistently different.
I could ask you the same. Probably not worth either of us listing every one. Here’s an example:
Note: “Four years of a single foreign language” under “Choosing high school courses.” It says nothing about pre-high school or cumulative through high school or course level completed.
This issue came up with several HS/college counselors with my older kids since both contemplated skipping foreign language their senior year after completing through level 5 junior year. They were strongly encouraged to do a fourth year anyway for this reason. We’ve had discussions on this with a couple people who have worked admissions at Princeton who were specific they are looking for kids to have stuck with a foreign language throughout high school in most cases, regardless of their starting level, unless they run out of opportunities to do so.
Not sure why this is such a controversial idea. If a student finishes Calc sophomore year but their high school offers Linear, Multivariable, Discrete Math, Stats, etc., many selective colleges would prefer to see them continue to their math curriculum. Students are encouraged to take 4 years of English even if they finish an AP before senior year. Etc. It’s about continuing to challenge themselves in the core academic disciplines if they have the opportunities to do so.
Of course there are no absolutes and most colleges make that clear, which is why they are often recommendations rather than requirements. My youngest is skipping foreign language senior year to take a second science. His counselor cautioned against it but he was determined.
If she has B’s and a C in high school classes maybe she isn’t targeting the tippy top colleges? If that’s the case she’s probably fine with the level 3 language and moving to AP music theory if she wants to. All my kids were accepted to excellent colleges and even were awarded competitive full tuition scholarships with three years (or less) of foreign language. They all chose more music/art/theatre over another year of language.
Caveats:
One of my kids (two years of Spanish in HS) had to take additional foreign language in college (essentially starting back at level one because she’d forgotten it all) to meet her college’s core requirements. Part of the way she accomplished this was by doing her college’s summer language program in Argentina. If your kid quits language now, you could be paying for a trip to South America later.
You really need to check the colleges your student will likely apply to, because requirements differ and most colleges do have an expectation that the student will have some level of foreign language coursework in high school, or meet a language requirement while in college, or both.
Thank you all for sharing your insight and experience. My D chose AP Music Theory because that’s where her passion/interest is, and she believes that she can do well. And yes, that grade is counted towards academic GPA which she needs a boost.
I didn’t know that “4 years” of foreign language was viewed so important. For my younger children, I will definitely keep that in mind. Thank you again!
My kid also chose music theory over a core class and did well with admissions. They made that choice based on interest and a desire to enhance other music studies outside of school.
Make sure your daughter submits a music resume if appropriate and if schools accept them: recording/video, music resume, and a letter or two of recommendation related to music. Music achievements can often help with admissions. The guidance counselor can also write a note explaining the choice of music theory over French if it is still a concern. Colleges, even top ones, understand commitment to music.
Music majors have a relatively high med school acceptance rate. If prerequisites are not covered during college there are many post-bacc programs for that purpose, some of which may help get into the med school that hosts the post-bacc. But those programs do cost.
One other idea: she could also take French- or music theory- online. Our small school had scheduling issues and so my kids took online classes a couple of times at VHS Learning | Home (We eventually suggested our high school join this organization so that 25 students could take an online class per semester.)
And good for her for choosing based on her authentic interests!
I’m a working music professional with a DMA in music. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THE MUSIC THEORY AP!! No music school worth their salt will give that test any weight at all. When you get to music school, EVERYONE (meaning every major: composition, performance, theory, etc) has to go through ear training exams, theory placement tests, etc. Every school thinks their placement tests are better than the AP. IMO you are much better off taking all 4 years of HS in one language. It’s a stupid meaningless test. Save your $$. IMHO.
A music theory class can open the door to composition for those who haven’t taken any theory, and can enrich the experience of musicians in general. Not everyone can go to conservatory prep. (A family member also has a doctorate and interest began with a high school theory class.)
@DrPrimo is right about schools not giving weight to the AP course and exam. Most schools, whether BA or BM program, have their own theory sequence. You can place out of intro to theory but even for those who place higher, it can be helpful to start with the intro. So yeah, AP music theory won’t gain credit in college or music school in most cases, and many schools will have their own placement tests.
But there is still a lot of value in taking it in high school. For reasons I stated above and also to get a feel for what you might study and whether you really want to. It also shows commitment to music.
Were you touring highly selective colleges? Those schools definitely prefer to see four years of foreign language, not level completed.
I have actually never seen the foreign language requirement quoted for level completed, but as others have said there are thousands of schools and I am sure it is sometimes mentioned that way.
