<p>I'm curious if anyone here has any first hand experience with the programs that can lead to a conventional BA or BS in whatever and a Master's in music performance, such as those offered by Columbia/Juilliard, Harvard/NEC (new), or Yale/Yale School of Music.</p>
<p>I believe there's also one here at Northwestern...</p>
<p>I'd be interested in hearing firsthand info about the program at NU as well. Something for a person who might want to pursue a BA in Classics/History and still keep the performance degree option open.</p>
<p>I believe Tufts has one with NEC, but it may only be for dual BAs, not a masters. However, I do know a friend of mine that has a BA in music in the 5 year program and is also finishing up her masters in child development.</p>
<p>That's where you can find more info on double degrees...I'm not a music major personally (I major in theatre...but I also study some Voice so I know something about that department), but several people in my dorm are, many of them doing this dual degree program. They seem very happy with it, although it is a lot of work, keeping up with NU academics and practicing with your instrument (but you are probably aware of this, as evidenced from the list you provided). They are constantly in "The Beehive", which is an entire building full of practice rooms reserved for music students.</p>
<p>Some other info... </p>
<p><a href="http://www.classics.northwestern.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.classics.northwestern.edu/</a></p>
<p>There's the website for the classics department...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.history.northwestern.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.history.northwestern.edu/</a></p>
<p>And there's the history webpage. </p>
<p>I've heard very good things about both programs, and plan on taking classes in their departments.</p>
<p>If you have any specific questions about music here, let me know and I can ask my hallmates. I believe we have a couple violin players and a viola player, as well as some voice majors.</p>
<p>You will find quite a bit of information if you do a search on music. Rather than repeat the old information, it might be better if you could define your interests more specifically.</p>
<p>rocket and edad,
thanks very much. My son is a terrific violinist who's been playing since age four (his idea). He's good enough to go the hard-core conservatory route--Juilliard, or even more difficult (for strings), Curtis. However, he's got a lot of other interests and skills as well, and is reluctant to give up on them to pursue music performance with the single-mindedness usually required at the top conservatories. If he can't be the next Hilary Hahn (saw her last night at the Kimmel in a recital with Natalie Zhou--fantastic), he'd be happy being the next Donald Kagan. He wants to keep both options open, and that seems, to me, to speak to the 5-year programs mentioned. He does have the grades and scores to get into the schools I mentioned, plus a very extensive performance resume. He's not interested in being an orchestra member or a music teacher. It's international soloist or something else.</p>
<p>That attitude it something I see alot of here, in many different departments (ie, theatre kids good enough to go the conservatory route but want to explore other things...). Many of the music majors here have similar goals (judging by the students I've met), so it would probably be a good place to take a look at for your son.</p>
<p>My D is split between science and music. D always planned on a profession in the sciences or possibly medicine. Music was just for fun. She did not want to teach music and has a cousin who did 4 years at a conservatory, failed to find a job and is now a physician. By the end of her junior year she had played at school, taken 5 years of private lessons and been to 4 years of summer music camps. It was not until September of her senior year that she decided to keep music as part of her life. That meant music had to be taken seriously. She started to practice 3 hours/day, instead of 3 hours/week. In addition she was up at 5:30 am on Saturdays to do her second year at a pre-college conservatory prep. Prep for auditions and selection of double major programs became a major event. My D got serious about music too late to worry about Curtis or Juilliard and also had no interest. She knew a lot of Juilliard kids and did not like the attitude, intensity and level of cutthroat competition. She also did would not consider MSM because of the dedication to music and difficulty in doing a double degree. Her top choices were UR/Eastman, Oberlin, BU, NWU, NYU (knew the studio head, marginal program) and Ithaca College (safety). She also applied to JHU/Peabody but knew she did not have the academic level needed for JHU. She would not apply for NEC - did not like the reputation, but I never heard the details. She had marginal interest in Oberlin - too flaky and did not like the location. She almost withdrew her app from NWU because of several negative warnings about the specific studio head for her instrument. The BU visit was a disaster and it turned out the program is small and they never had an opening for her instrument. </p>
<p>So I guess the bottom line is choices become very limited if you are looking for the right level of music and academics for a double degree. Others on this forum would disagree. They mention all the other possibilities: UMich, Indiana, and a bunch of other schools with music programs. There are also other programs my D never considered, noteably Rice and CIM/CWRU.</p>
<p>After all of the searches, apps and auditions, the outcome is always uncertain. For most dd programs, less than 1/3 of the initial enrollees actually complete the program. My D is only 3 months into her program. She still seams split down the middle. At this point I would guess she will be in the minority and complete a dd, but anything can happen. Even if she finishes, she will eventually face some tough career choices. She can always opt for a masters in performance. There are always combo fields like the acoustic sciences or she may join the thousands of others and give up any serious involvement with music. As a scientist, I am the one who has been giving her the most encouragement for music. The world has a enough dull scientist and techie types. In addition to the enjoyment, music training gives a person something special and I am convinced the training and discipline does something remarkable to the mind and spirit.</p>
<p>I hope my long story has been of some help.</p>
<p>Edad,</p>
<p>sounds like our daughters are mirror images. Mine was interested in music as a career pretty early and started piano at age 6. After switching to violin for a few years, she finally settled on double bass in eighth grade. It wasn't until her senior year in high school, when she took a calculus and a physics course, that she showed some interest in the sciences as another possible career path. Unlike your daughter, she liked the vibe at Oberlin and is quite happy there now. (Interestingly enough, three of the four Concerto Competition winners at Oberlin this year are double degree students.) I, the engineer in the family, offered similar advice to yours while my wife, the music major, was constantly pointing out the hardships and sacrifices involved in being a professional musician.</p>
<p>So as not to hijack this thread completely, I will add a few random pieces of advice for driver and his son:</p>
<ul>
<li>At this level, it is far more important to find the right teacher than the right school.</li>
<li>Choose a teacher not only on the basis of playing and teaching abilities, but also for their connections with people who will have the power to hire your son or get him into the right graduate program.</li>
<li>Don't forget the big summer festivals like Aspen and Tanglewood. Even though they focus on orchestral playing, they are good for meeting new teachers and making contacts in general. Access to such networking opportunities is vital to any musical career.</li>
<li>Marketability is extremely important in a shrinking market like classical music. Rather than aspiring to be the next Hilary Hahn, he should work on developing his own sound and bringing something to the audience that they are not getting from her or Joshua Bell, or all the others already out there.</li>
<li>Persistence and the ability to shake off multiple rejections are necessary traits.</li>
<li>Knowing when to hang in there and when to pack it in is the hardest decision of all.</li>
<li>If you have not already seen them, check out "The Articles" <a href="http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/787%5B/url%5D">http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/787</a> and "The Double Degree Dilemma" <a href="http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/692%5B/url%5D">http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/692</a> even if Peabody/JHU is not in the running.</li>
</ul>
<p>BassDad: I probably should have been more clear about Oberlin. My D was not very interested because she wanted to be closer to the boyfriend. She did not visit and tried a remote audition. It was her first audition and went badly. She was not accepted. I also thought Oberlin sounded like a great choice. Then again, she did spend a lot of time in NYC and I don't know how she would have handled the Ohio countryside.</p>
<p>Also, my W is the artist (visual) and I am the one with the most encouragement for music.</p>
<p>Driver - given your son's abilities and interests, I would think the Harvard NEC program would be worth a hard look although it is very new as you point out. My son is cello performance major at Eastman. He thought about the double degree thing for awhile, but says it is very hard to do it as a strings performance major because there are so many conflicts with orchestra rehearsals and other classes scheduled at the main campus of UR. My guess is that that will be a case no matter where your son goes to school. Lawrence University in Appleton, WI goes out of its way to encourage and promote double degree students, but it still takes 5 years to finish a BM and BA. Also, the performance level at Lawrence is probably not as high as your son is looking for. </p>
<p>I know a few musicians who did not major in music at all as undergrads but continued to study privately. The most notable is Yo-yo Ma who attended Harvard. I also know of a virtuoso pianist (bronze medal winner in the Van Cliburn competition) who did a BA at Harvard in math and then went on to NEC for his MM in piano performance. He did this in the 80s. So depending on your son's motivation and interest, he might be able to major in something completely unrelated to music while still pursuing his performance studies independently. If he truly is only interested in being a soloist, then he really doesn't need a BM to advance in the field. He just needs to be the best player around ;)</p>
<p>Edad,</p>
<p>No offense taken. I am the first to say that Oberlin is most certainly not everyone's cup of tea. It is very quirky - a perfect fit for some and a terrible one for others. I highly recommend that anyone considering going there spend a day or two on campus before making any decisions.</p>
<p>Some amplification of shennie's excellent points:</p>
<p>If the Harvard/NEC combo does work out, see if you can get housed and fed at Harvard. The NEC dorm was one of the worst I have ever seen. I also got the impression that NEC was a better place for graduate work than undergraduate.</p>
<p>The idea of studying music independently may indeed make sense in your son's case. It would give him a far broader selection of both colleges and of potential violin teachers. While a BM seems to be part of the price of admission in the orchestral world, it is not much of a consideration among soloists.</p>
<p>The OP asked about a single BA degree and a MM in 5 years (I think this thread got off track). I'm pretty sure URochester has this precise offering, in 5 years.</p>
<p>I had this discussion a few years ago with someone who teaches at Julliard. His opinion was that all you need is one person you would like to study with while at college, rather than a music degree. This particular musician has a BA in English from Yale and uses his writing and research skills extensively in his music career.</p>
<p>I really appreciate all the good info. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what "Plan B" can be, if being the next Hilary isn't in the cards. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, and I don't mean to imply that he copies her style....I just mention her as a 25-year-old icon. Have any of you seen the film "Music From the Inside"? Fascinating documentary about musicians in the Philadelphia Orchestra. David Kim, the Concertmaster, began playing at age four, and was raised, as he describes it, by a mother who intended for him to be a concert soloist. He spent 15 years knocking around the world, and at some point decided it wasn't working, and he needed a Plan B. Fortunately for him, Philly needed a Concertmaster, and he got the job. My son's Plan B will probably be history, classics, writing, which is why I mentioned Kagan as the other iconic figure, and why I think one of the 5-year programs may allow him to maximize his options while he figures things out. He's good enough on the violin that it would be a shame to not pursue the musical dream. But he's good enough at other things (and equally passionate about them) that it would be a shame to not put him in an environment where he can fulfill his potential there as well.</p>
<p>It sounds like the Bard Conservatory might be a good fit for you. They have a really world class faculty, including Dawn Upshaw, Peter Serkin, and the Kavafian sisters. Getting in is extremely competitive, though, but they do offer tons of financial aid if you do get in!</p>
<p>website: <a href="http://www.bard.edu/conservatory%5B/url%5D">http://www.bard.edu/conservatory</a></p>