<p>Both of my kids took Alg. 1 as 7th graders. Ability-wise, they are probably both on the cusp of kids who should do this - they could have gone either way. S had good teacher, D had terrible teacher. S stayed on track and did 2 years of calculus in HS (1 yr AP AB, 1 yr BC AP). D got off track and is currently on schedule to do 1 yr of Honors Calculus in HS, followed by 1 yr AP AB.</p>
<p>What kid wants to do is very important, particularly if s/he is on the cusp. S is very competitive, really wanted to keep up. D didn't. We let her drop back because even though academically it wasn't the right thing to do, personality-wise it was. Her math grades for sophomore yr. (and maybe junior yr) won't look great on the college apps, but there's a lot more to life in general and parent-child relationships in particular than college apps.</p>
<p>I would go for it, if kid wants to do it. Kid can always drop back. It's hard to accelerate without a lot of work though. </p>
<p>Also, as others point out, it's the norm throughout much of the world.</p>
<p>I definitely WOULD NOT think about dropping math for a year during HS. Math is a life skill, it's becoming more and more of a life skill, and there's a lot more to learn than many people think. [Okay, I admit it, I'm an applied math professional. I do see lots of instances where people could make much better decisions in life if they just applied some simple statistics ... but to do this, you have to know simple statistics ... ] Also, if you look at this board, you will see that dropping math for a year can lead to some nasty surprises at college acceptance time.</p>
<p>Most people I know took Algebra 1 in seventh grade. I myself took PreAlgebra but learned Algebra 1 over the summer. It's a very easy class (trust me...during 7th grade I got a 560 on the SAT1 Math and I still did absolutely fine). Your son will be fine too.</p>
<p>I find this thread fascinating, because in my son's 7th grade last year there was only one child (a transfer) who took Algebra 1 with the eighth graders. 7th graders either take some regular math, or pre-al...that's it. This is a private school which sends kids to the top tier colleges annually. Are we slow or what?</p>
<p>Taking Algebra I in 7th grade is fairly common among the top students in my local school system. It DOES appear on the HS transcript, with a letter grade, as does the 8th grade geometry that follows it, and both count toward the four years of math required for graduation.</p>
<p>I would suggest checking with your school system to find out 1) whether the algebra course will appear on the HS transcript, and also (very important) 2) whether high-school level math courses taken during middle school count toward the number of math credits required for HS graduation. If only math courses taken during the high school years count, your son could have a problem if there is no appropriate math course for him in the page program.</p>
<p>Another thing worth checking is what options the school system offers to students who complete BC Calculus in 11th grade. Is a higher level math course offered? Or will they just say "go take something at the local community college"? -- this can be a problem in terms of transportation and scheduling. </p>
<p>In our school system, taking advantage of placement in 7th grade algebra to skip a year of math at some point in HS is discouraged (although nobody seems to mind if a kid does not take multivariable calculus in 12th grade after completing BC Calculus). I would think, though, that participation in the page program would be a justifiable exception to the rule.</p>
<p>dke, you're not slow. It's a matter of local custom, I think.</p>
<p>I don't understand this trend in some school systems to turn calculus into a two-year program (AB in the first year, BC in the second). In our school system, BC Calculus does not have AB as a prerequisite. The whole thing is taught in a single year, which seems eminently do-able. My daughter says BC Calculus was far easier than precalculus.</p>
<p>In our district, algebra 1 is offered to all 8th graders. Some need to repeat it in 9th grade others then go on to Algebra 2. But there are some advanced kids who are allowed to accelerate, depending on the teacher. For instance, when my S was in 7th grade, there were 3 more students besides him (out of a total of 25) being accelerated to different levels, all working on their own.</p>
<p>Even if high school classes appear on the high school transcript, colleges will not take them into account. However, if they count toward GPA and the student is likely to apply to schools that do not recompute GPA (many state unis with high volume of applications do not recompute) you should ask how the grade will be handled.</p>
<p>It is desirable to take math all four years no matter how advanced a student is for the sake of keeping sharp. Many students take Multivariable calculus and Linear Algebra either through the local community college or university or online. Other students take AP Stats. One student in my S's high school did an independent study on a special topic.</p>
<p>2 sons, 2 math experiences here. S1 took alg.1 in 7th grade did fine and continued on accelerated pace thru high school taking AP Calc AB as a Jr. and AP Stats as a Sr. Went straight to Calc.2 as a college freshman and made a B. It worked out fine for him. Most of his friends took the same track but some (all considered accelerated students) who started on the same track in 7th grade did fine up until they got to Pre-Cal Honors in 10th grade where they hit the proverbial wall. Our sch. requires 4 years of math in h.s. regardless of what's taken in mid. sch. so some were left struggling with where to go when they realized they had gone too far too fast.</p>
<p>S2 is not an acclerated student. He did not take pre-alg. in 7th grade but due to outstanding Iowa test scores, was placed in Alg. 1 for 8th grade. This turned out to be a big mistake. He struggled the whole year and barely passed. He retook it in 9th grade and what a difference. He still didn't make A's but really understood the concepts where he had been lost the previous year. Made the highest grade in his class on the end of course exam. A great victory for a kid who had literally almost failed the year before.</p>
<p>Our high school transcripts do show middle school classes and grades that count towards high school requirements. So S2's transcript will show that he made a D in Alg.1 in 8th grade. Hopefully that won't matter since the rest of his transcript will show that he made B's in high school in Alg.1 on the retake and also Honors geometry and Alg.2.</p>
<p>I've been told by several high school math teachers that there is validity to the whole brain development theory. There is a lot of concern among teachers here that many students who are not ready are being pushed to start on the accelerated track in middle school and then reach high school without a true understanding of the concepts and struggle through higher level math courses.</p>
<p>If the student is truly ready (as my S1 was) then go for it but if you believe you may need to wait a year for some more "brain development"(as my S2 needed), don't be afraid (or intimidated by what other people say)to slow down the pace some. Good luck.</p>
<p>Maybe it's a mtter of brain development, maybe it's something else. students who do very well in arithmetics--which is what math is in the lower grades--do not necessarily do well in algebra which is far more abstract and conceptual. So I don't know how doing well on tests will sort out students who are likely to do well in algebra in 7th or 8th grade.</p>
<p>In my own limited experience, the ability to do well in algebra is linked to the ability to think logically. Even before he'd memorized his multiplication tables, S had shown a love of puzzles. Jigsaw puzzles, tangrams, logic puzzles, etc... Many teachers consider that in order to do algebra, students must understand and master fractions. That is true, and it is also related to the ability to think logically.</p>
<p>Kids who acquire rote math skills easily get noticed early and are quickly considered for acceleration by both teachers and parents around 5th grade and the middle school years. However, as Marite points out, problem solving aptitude and development is called for as the level of abstractness increases in the later math courses. Kids who have difficulty problem solving because they can't fathom how to apply their rotely learned skills, do hit that wall. My S was a human calculator as a young child, but those skills barely got him through AP Calc as a senior (didn't pass the exam either). He just fininshed law school. My D was verbal, an early reader, and liked fantasy and puzzles. She never expressed any special interest in math until she found herself on the double accelerated track. It was a means to an end as she really took to chemistry, which she is now majoring in.</p>
<p>I dont agree with the Math SAT anecdote, from my personal experience. I too was in Alg 1 in 7th grade and took Calc BC as a junior. I took Math 2C as a sophmore, after pre-calc, and even though I got a good score, my percentile was horrendous (770 got me 82 percentile) because of the 1C/2C option available that year. I decided to retake it after Calculus. If i hadn't been taking SAT 1 practice tests I wouldn't have been able to beat my score. I am a very strong math student, but derivative and integrals from Calculus do not help you on a test that only goes up to Algebra 2/Trig. Just make sure when your son gets to Standardized testing that he takes some practice tests because it can be hard to focus on the type of math you did 2-3 years ago.</p>
<p>My son did a compacted math program with all Algebra completed before high school. He will be in AP BC calc as a junior this year, and then can take a college course or AP statistics (or both) as a senior.</p>
<p>There are about 20 students (in a class of 500) every year who take this route. </p>
<p>The regular math sequence would have been tediously slow for these kids.</p>
<p>c'mon. 770 may be a percentile of 82 but it is not "horrendous." As far as adcoms are concerned, it's the same as 800. Look up Matt Gann's blog (he's an MIT rep who posts frequently on CC. </p>
<p>The underlying point that Calculus will not help with SAT has already been made.</p>
<p>DD was accelerated by our K-8 school system, but wish I realized how disruptive that would later become. She along with a couple of other students were expected to get from elementary school to HS and back each day for math, the system wouldn't arrange for transportation. In addition teachers wouldn't accomodate and since they would be missing other classes in the elementary school due to travel time and scheduling differences, had to make up all the work on their own after school. Busy work most of it!
My daughter, now entering 10th grade will be taking AP calc in 11th grade. Then the fun begins, other that AP statistics, there is no other math within the HS to take in senior year. The school has an arrangement for these kids to take advanced calc at a local evening extension college. DD spoke with the 2 kids that did it this year, they both dropped out after first semester. Weren't getting home until 11PM and found the (I think 3 hour) one night a week lecture course with a mediocre teacher very difficult to learn in after a full day at HS. Also, schedule, including vacations differed from HS. School has refused any other arrangements, including other colleges and online. DD now saying she won't go that route, will stop at AP calc and take statistics in 12th grade. My concern is if in college she decides to major in anything requiring additional calculus she will suffer after taking a year gap.
If I had my druthers, probably would have let her just doodle in math back in elementary school and keep her grade appropriate.</p>
<p>That is too bad about your D's experience. A couple of years ago, I spoke with the instructor of the Harvard Extension MV Calc class and he told me that out of 83 students, 53 were high schoolers. S's school sends perhaps 10 students every year and I have not heard any complaints. The vacation schedule posed no problem as the high school started before and ended after the college year. </p>
<p>For the advanced kids in 7th and 8th grades, they did not have to complete regular work. They just sat by themselves at a table and worked on their own. They needed far less review than other kids so they were able to move quite fast. For example, one student who was in 8th grade covered all of 9th grade math plus a big chunk of 10th grade math.</p>
<p>Marite-thanks for the reply. That's the school and class my daughter is supposed to take. Sounds alot better than the grumbles that got relayed to me!</p>
<p>second spring: I've had many students over the years take only AP Stats their senior year after successfully completing the AP Calc AB or BC course and exam as juniors. Those kids who have gone on to take more courses in the math sequence after calc 1 (using AP credit for that) have done well. The year off has not <em>hurt</em> them. IMHO, balancing a senior year schedule and maintaining sanity is far more important. In any case, taking stats should be strongly encouraged. It is a valuable course that is required by approximately 80% of college majors and one that should be a foundation for all of us in this data-driven age.</p>
<p>S took that class and he was fine with it. It was on top of his regular high school schedule (though no math, of course); but he handled the homework fine. It was actually an advantage that the class met only once a week (or twice? I forget) because homework was due the following week, as in a regular college class, and so he could schedule doing it whenever he had free time. Too often, high school assignments are due the next day!</p>
<p>We got enough kids two years ahead on the math track that this year for the first time the school is offering multivariable calculus at the high school. We have no regrets except that our son really should have skipped more than he did. And yes, I spent a year carpooling my son and a few other 8th graders to the high school for math first period.</p>
<p>"The whole thing is taught in a single year, which seems eminently do-able. My daughter says BC Calculus was far easier than precalculus."</p>
<p>LOL. And my son says he wished he'd done precalc in the summer because it was sooooo easy. He didn't have any problem doing BC Calculus either though. Our school offers both AB and BC Calculus, but AB is not a prerequisite for BC.</p>
<p>"If the student is truly ready (as my S1 was) then go for it but if you believe you may need to wait a year for some more "brain development"(as my S2 needed), don't be afraid (or intimidated by what other people say)to slow down the pace some. Good luck."</p>
<p>I don't think you can predict whether or not you'll be truly ready for calculus. I took calculus as a 16 year old senior and although I got an A - I felt like it was just beyond my grasp - somehow I bombed the AP getting only a 2. It was no big deal - two years later I took calculus in college and it was a breeze - an easy A. I don't regret having taken it as a young senior in high school at all even though I ended up repeating it in college. But it was interesting that my 19 year old brain seemed readier for it than my 16 year old one.</p>