8 dead have been counted so far.

College Confidential Community
21

<p>Wow Sheed30...there's been a lot of ignorant misinformed stuff said, but I'm afraid you win on that front.</p>

<p>1) There are a LARGE amount of Arab Israelis, many of whom are proud to be Israelis. They serve in the army, they have MPs, judges, there's even a minister in cabinet. The ordinary Arab has more freedom than anywhere else in the Middle East.</p>

<p>2) The Peace issue you discuss shows you have little idea as to the true nature of the history of Israel. I will not go over this as I have so many times, but I will sum it up: The Palestinians left of their own accord in 1948 to let the other Arab countries who outnumbered Israel by almost 11 to 1 to invade. When Israel won, many were displaced. I would suggest the Israelis are not responsible for this refugees. Nowadays, Hamas and Hezbollah truly run the show in regards to peace with Israel in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon respectively. Both of them call for the destruction of the JEWISH people. I think you really have to question the prospect of peace when one side wants to murder every man, woman and child.</p>

<p>3) "If Israel didn't have literally hundreds of billions of dollars getting shipped to them every year from America they wouldn't exactly be flourishing."</p>

<p>Money doesn't make a democracy chum. Israel is a very prosperous country. It has huge foreign investment, a large stock exchange and it trades with huge numbers of countries. Israeli scientists are responsible for many breakthroughs, including the cure for polio in the 1950s. Democracy occurred from the efforts of the founding fathers of Israel in the 1940s.</p>

<p>You see Sheed30, the problem with people like you is not that you're a bad person as uch, but every word you will utter will be misinformed and hypocritical. You have a skewed understanding about the sheer hatred of the jews out there. As we speak, Palestinians are celebrating in the streets all because 8 little jewish kids were shot dead. This is really what separates the Palestinians from the Israels. If an Israeli terrorist went into a school and shot a palestinian kid dead, the Israelis would arrest the terrorist, put him in trial, and have him sent to jail for the rest of his life.</p>

<p>They do this because they believe in freedom, demoracy and justice.</p>

<p>The Palestinians have done it because they wish to see Jews dead, even if they are small jewish children. And at some point, when you have a people collectively celebrating this kind of terrorist attack, one has to ask if the Palestinians deserve all this aid that the Israel, the US, the UN, the EU and over individual countries are giving them. One also has to question if they deserve a country of their own. </p>

<p>8 children DEAD.</p>

<p>lgf:</a> Palestinians Celebrating Mass Murder</p>

22

<p>Great, another Israel vs Palestine thread descends into political bickering. </p>

<p>It's times like these when I'm glad I wasn't raised in a religious home (YES for parents being hardcore atheists!).</p>

23

<p>...so the jews are pro-israel, and the non-jews are anti-israel? interesting</p>

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<p>Both sides are retarded for letting the conflict last this long.</p>

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<p>lol, i wrote a long essay refuting all of your points, but just now erased all of it. I'm not going to argue with you. I don't hate jews as a matter of fact some of my closest friends are jews with a very strong faith in Israel, and I do not believe I am blind to one side. However I have looked at the facts and made my own opinion. If you can't respect that, then I'm sorry.</p>

<p>O, and I couldn't let you say that Palestinians kill kids and women, but the Israeli army, not even a terrorist group but the actual army has killed hundreds of children and women civilians. </p>

<p>Two</a> women shot dead by Israelis in Gaza siege - Middle East, World - Independent.co.uk
Israeli</a> tanks kill women during protest march | From Occupied Palestine
Israeli</a> strikes kill 54 in Gaza - Yahoo! News
Israelis</a> kill woman, 95, at checkpoint | World news | The Guardian
Deadly</a> Israeli Attacks Kill 52</p>

<p>BTW, just to make it clear I do not support the terrorists with what they are doing in any way. I believe that under absolutely no circumstances are children/women/elderly/civilians should ever die during battle. The only people that should face the consequences of war are the soldiers in battle. What happened yesterday was truly saddening and I believe that from the bottom of my heart. However, gollygoshkins you should also try and sympathize with both groups and I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway.</p>

<p>You can call me a bad person, misinformed, hypocritical, skewed, and hateful towards Jews, but the truth is you don't know me, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make generalizations from 1 post about people you haven't met on the internet.</p>

26

<p>What's awkward thing is that we never get to know about the atrocities that Sheed has listed.
If Palestinians fight back for their rights, the story is listed as NUMBER 1 in the "MOST READ" section on BBC and there's a thread on CC, but when the other side conducts vicious, barbaric attacks, we never get to SEE IT on any big website. wth!?</p>

<p>Guys, this is not a fight between Muslim and a Jew, or Israeli vs Palestinian, this is a fight for the sake of humanity, kick them out!
There was a website that posted some of the pictures from the atrocities by Israel, and that website is not running anymore. (fromisraeltolebanon.org) wonder why.</p>

<p>And I do believe what was done today was totally wrong(as I've stated before), but learn to look at things in perspective. If I'm a normal teenager who has a deep value and respect for my family, and all of a sudden you kill my sister or parents just because they live in the land they've always owned, you bet I'll be disturbed, I won't be happy, and I'll strike back.
As simple as that.</p>

<p>You don't slap a baby, and then cry expecting sympathy from others because you're hurt from the force that baby's face has exerted on you.</p>

<p>And look at the article posted up on BBC's website. Here's what they list about the school:
-Some 500 students enrolled in Talmudic study
-Graduates serve as rabbis and rabbinical judges in Israel and Jewish settlements
-School has played a major role in ideology and theology of Israeli religious settlement movement </p>

<p>This description really doesn't fit in with what they go on to say later on:
"When we got in... we saw young, 15-, 16-year-old guys lying on the floor with their Bibles in their hands - all dead..." he said. </p>

<p>So it's supposed to be a Jewish Seminary, more of a religious kind of school, and somehow the crazy Muslim terrorist rocked the school and shot only those with Bible in their hands. You're kidding me, right?
It's to appeal to the Christians in general, who rule countries enriched with some of the most advanced nuclear weapons(one of them being US, of course).</p>

<p>Guys, I really don't blame you for believing what you believe. I blame the media that's quite effective at distorting the truth and reality.</p>

<p>Read this book: "They Dare to Speak Out" by Paul Findley. It's a good book. Paul Findley was a US congressman/senator for around 26 years, and only lost elections when he spoke up against the atrocities by Israel. Read it and see how much influence Israel holds on US. You'll be surprised. I'm sure some of you have already read "1984" before. </p>

<p>Check out this video:
YouTube</a> - George Galloway Savages SKY NEWS!</p>

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<p>Of course none of the countries can flourish as much as Israel because Israel has SO MUCH oil and has embargo on it(NOT!)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
there's been a lot of ignorant misinformed stuff said, but I'm afraid you win on that front.

[/quote]

[quote]
You see Sheed30, the problem with people like you is not that you're a bad person as uch, but every word you will utter will be misinformed and hypocritical. You have a skewed understanding

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And I would counter that the problem with people like you is that your arguments rely on appeals to emotion, simplistic overstatements, and a general lack of knowledge about the history and politics of the situation. It's no surprise that you seem to think insulting Sheed and his arguments counts as a genuine rebuttal. It's certainly no less convincing than your other points. Let's examine a few:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The Palestinians left of their own accord in 1948 to let the other Arab countries who outnumbered Israel by almost 11 to 1 to invade.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is an outdated historical view that most modern scholars reject as propaganda. Benny Morris proved, fairly conclusively, that it was primarily IDF aggression that pushed out the Palestinians. </p>

<p>
[quote]
As we speak, Palestinians are celebrating in the streets all because 8 little jewish kids were shot dead. This is really what separates the Palestinians from the Israels.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ah, yes, because the Palestinians are bloodthirsty terrorist dogs who resent the noble Israelis for upholding virtue and justice. </p>

<p>Say you're a Palestinian. Thanks to Israeli occupation, you probably live in a desolate refugee camp, because you were displaced by an illegal settlement (Israeli settlements, every single one, violate section 49 of the fourth Geneva Convention). Malnutrition among Palestinian children is higher than it is in Bangladesh and Somalia (USAID report, 2002). Meanwhile, the poverty level sits at about 80%, and the unemployment rate is a nice big 40% (both figures from the UNDP, 2006). Some dumb kid just blew himself up in a synagogue, and there's a good chance that you or someone you know could be killed by an Israeli rocket even though you had nothing to do with it, and like many Palestinians didn't even support it. In fact, the Israeli Defense Minister just threatened you with a literal holocaust - and all you want is a job that doesn't involve manual labor, and maybe the ability to pass through checkpoints without heavily-armed soldiers threatening you. </p>

<p>And you're supposed to embrace the State of Israel with open arms, thanking them for bringing stability to the region?</p>

<p>To paraphrase Phyllis Bennis from the Institute for Policy Studies, one can't look at the situation critically and not understand why Palestinians are enraged at Israel. Which is exactly why Israel supporters employ the rhetorical tool of reducing Palestinians to cartoonish stereotypes, which they then cite as a reason for aggressive military campaigns against civilian targets.</p>

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<p>most of the "the Palestinians are celebrating the deaths of the children"--well, the police here believed that all the muslims were celebrating 9/11...</p>

30

<p>Lest anyone think Israel is interested in peace, have a look at:</p>

<p>The</a> Associated Press: Israel to Build on Contested Land</p>

<p>BTW, the headline editor didn't chose:</p>

<p>"Israel to Build on Occupied Land"</p>

<p>Some Palestinians also don't seem interested in peace, but they don't speak with a single voice (did they ever?).</p>

31

<p>
[quote]
If I say Jerusalem was given to me by God, Do I get a country there too?
What about the other groups to which it was "promised"?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>the state of israel was retribution for all the suffering that has been put on them for CENTURIES.<br>
no other race or ethnic minority has been persecuted as much as the israelites/jews.
just thought i would point that out.</p>

<p>and i am not jewish but i am in support of israel.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
no other race or ethnic minority has been persecuted as much as the israelites/jews.

[/quote]

Blacks .</p>

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<p>Millions more blacks than jews, but jews for more years?</p>

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<p>Blacks have been enslaved and systematically killed before, but not to the extent of the Jews.</p>

<p>EVERY Jew...the ENTIRE JEWISH PEOPLE were enslaved by the Egyptians years ago, while in the Holocaust over 6 million Jews were killed.</p>

<p>Nobody even comes close, methinks.</p>

35

<p>
[quote]
Blacks have been enslaved and systematically killed before, but not to the extent of the Jews.</p>

<p>EVERY Jew...the ENTIRE JEWISH PEOPLE were enslaved by the Egyptians years ago, while in the Holocaust over 6 million Jews were killed.</p>

<p>Nobody even comes close, methinks.

[/quote]

By 1876, between 7 million and 10 million blacks had been brought to the "New World" (not including the many more taken from their homes and put to other uses) (<a href="http://www.britannica.com/blackhistory/article-24156)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.britannica.com/blackhistory/article-24156)&lt;/a>, between 9.4 and 14 million taken/enslaved and brought to the Arab world (<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6445941.stm)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6445941.stm)&lt;/a>, and there's also the B.C. Trans Saharan slave trade that involved about just as many black African slaves, not to mention past and current racism and discrimination.</p>

<p>I'm not trying to turn this into a "who's been persecuted more?" contest and for the record, I am neither black nor Jewish, but it's ridiculous to make subjective blanket statements about a group, and then to say that a group deserves a large amount of land because their ancestors were persecuted.</p>

<p>That said, the killing of innocents is always wrong, and the people that commit such atrocities are disgusting.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
the state of israel was retribution for all the suffering that has been put on them for CENTURIES.
no other race or ethnic minority has been persecuted as much as the israelites/jews.
just thought i would point that out.</p>

<p>and i am not jewish but i am in support of israel.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>so, are you saying now it's the Palestinians' turn? They get to have their land taken away because hey, the jews were persecuted..</p>

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<p>The problem with Israel is the fact that it doesn't appreciate the opportunity the UN gave it when the UN established a Jewish state. Israel is the founding father of the preemptive strike, a strategy that we all know does not work. Yes, Israel has tried to make peace, but from the point of view that it is the superpower in the region. Perhaps it would be a much better situation if Israel didn't try to make itself into a bubble.</p>

38

<p>
[quote]
so, are you saying now it's the Palestinians' turn? They get to have their land taken away because hey, the jews were persecuted..

[/quote]
</p>

<p>yep, and we're going to give the united states back to the native americans</p>

<p>
[quote]

EVERY Jew...the ENTIRE JEWISH PEOPLE were enslaved by the Egyptians years ago

[/quote]
</p>

<p>dude you know that exodus isn't a factual account of history right</p>

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<p>american just came and took this bitttch...Jews were given palestine..</p>

40

<p>see, this is what I dislike about Palestine vs. Israel arguments:
when you blame Israel for fatal oppression, you're automatically labeled as 'anti-semitic' and that you support the Holocaust--mass persecution of Jews.
This is a nice way to escape the heat of the argument.
Everything else is discounted, the fact that there is a holocaust that's ON right now, the fact that Israel's conduct is bestial and what it's doing is just wrong.
WHY blame Palestine or Muslims in general for Holocaust? Why take just Palestine?
If you want land, go ask Germany, the country that originated the Holocaust. Go ask US, they have a TON of land that they can give out. 'Cause after all, they are the ones who support you so much.
Why Palestine? Why Muslims?</p>