A 19-year-old Weston man who was a freshman at Lafayette College in Pennsylvania died Monday

The latest information: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-lafayette-student-died-funeral-20170917-story.html

Update. No hazing involved. Drinking was. Fall appears to have been in the dorm, NOT during a party. He didn’t fall from the window. Students carried him down to take him to the hospital. http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-lafayette-college-mccrae-williams-death-20170919-story.html

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I’m not sure that as a 51 year old adult I’d feel confident in knowing when a drunk kid needs to go to the hospital and when it’s ok for them to just sleep it off. I assume that not every drunk kid needs to go to the hospital so what specific signs indicate when an individual is drunk enough that they need medical attention/intervention. And if I’m not clear on this of course it’s likely there are plenty of kids who aren’t clear.

And as far as head injuries go for some reason this story reminded me of Natasha Richardson’s death. She fell while skiing at a low rate of speed while not wearing a helmet: She was conscious and refused initial requests to go to a hospital. Eventually she agreed but unfortunately it was too late. It sounds like this student fell but no one saw him hit his head and he was conscious and speaking after with no visible injuries. What signs could these students have seen in this case that would have made it clear this student needed immediate medical attention?

It must be doubly hard to assess a head injury in a person who’s been drinking heavily. Who doesn’t wobble, slur their words and appear confused or sleepy when they’re drunk?

I read the article and I agree with @adlgel - it sounds like the student’s friends reacted with a lot of care and concern but he waved it all off over the course of 2 days. So tragic - I feel for his family.

Here is a detailed report of the incident. Drinking plus head trauma. Friends appeared to have followed the protocol to lessen the risk of drowning in vomit, but not for brain trauma.

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-lafayette-college-mccrae-williams-death-20170919-story.html

  1. Many people do not know the concussion/brain trauma protocol, or the fact that it does not take a "significant" impact to cause trauma (hitting your head on the side of the toilet is sufficient) .
  2. It is very risky to leave a person who has experienced brain trauma unattended if they are exhibiting symptoms (this includes letting them sleep without periodically checking on them)
  3. It is very difficult to distinguish between the symptoms of brain trauma and "drunkeness"
  4. Alcohol or drugs in the person's system increase the risk even further
  5. A second trauma within weeks of the first is extremely dangerous

If a person is drunk enough that their motor skills are impaired, you should not let them out of your sight. You need to try to prevent the possibility of a fall and help get them to a safe place.

If they exhibit any of the symptoms, call a professional. Err on the side of caution - especially if the person has been out of your sight.

Please read this link and pass the information on to your kids!

https://www.brain-injury.org.nz/html/concussion.html

For a lacrosse player in season, there is a reasonable probability that the person might have had a concussion that had not healed before the drinking incident…

@adlgel “What signs could these students have seen in this case that would have made it clear this student needed immediate medical attention?”

First, the student trying to help him was doing her best, but simply did not know what to look for. That is not her fault.

– First, she needed to realize that any fall combined with drinking significantly increases the risk and that a significant percentage of alcohol related deaths involve trauma or falls.

– After the victim fell, she should have been telling everyone he fell and that informing them that that makes the situation risky and they should consider 911 because of the drinking combined with a trauma/fall.

– When she realized that after he fell he was suddenly not able to get back to bed himself, she should have been very concerned. The sudden degradation of motor skills after the fall is unlikely to be caused by drinking. They should have called 911.

– Furthermore, in addition to the degradation in motor skills, a person who understands how risky this situation is could also be assessing his mental clarity. Does he seem groggy and confused, is his speech slurred, is he unable to make good eye contact? Does he say he is tired? Does he feel cold? Any of these, in this situation, further suggest that 911 should be called.

– When they checked him later at night, he should have been getting sober. He went to bed at 5pm. If they checked on him at midnight, he would not have had a drink in 7 hours. Again, they should have realized that if he was still groggy something was not right. Is he still not able to walk? is he still groggy and confused? Is he still not making good eye contact? Is he still tired? They should have called 911.

– When they checked on him at 11:30 in the morning, he had been in bed for 18 hours. How could they not realize something is wrong still? Because he was somewhat conscious. However, he had not recovered still, was not getting out of bed, he was probably still groggy and confused, he was probably still not making good eye contact, still not communicating well, and still saying he is tired. Another clearly missed opportunity to realize that they need to call 911.

– They come back again at 1pm to bring him food. He has been in bed for 20 hours. Unfortunately, they do not understand the risks or how deadly the situation is. Again, that is not their fault. No one trained them about what to watch for.

– They call 911 at 4:17pm. Even then they did so over the victim’s objections, but it is too late.

These look to me like very good and loyal friends who simply had not been taught what to watch for.

Mr. Naval Academy was way out of line, blaming people for Williams’ death when he wasn’t even there. Way out of line. (And I think he wore his academy uniform and grandstanded like this for attention.)

Shame on him! The Lafayette students did nothing wrong!

i happened to talk to a Lafayette student very recently. Did not know the student who passed away but was feeling the loss of this student.

But this person remarked that they felt that every year recently Lafayette has had a student pass away and it’s been very sad for the student body.

Although alcohol was involved here, it sounds like a tragic freak accident. It sounds like the kids involved were caring and thoughtful. My heart goes out to the Lafayette community.

Lacrosse is a spring sport but it’s possible he’d had previous concussions which would be a risk factor for problems with further head injury.

You’re right that ideally they would have recognized these symptoms as being those of a brain injury but unfortunately they’re the same as for someone who’s falling-down drunk.

This may have looked to them like a massive hangover.

I wonder if the outcome may have been different later in the year when his friends knew him better and were better able to assess what was and wasn’t characteristic of his behavior when drinking.

D1 lacrosse teams do have some practices and scrimmages in the fall, even though the season is in the spring.

But more likely is that this is a more common accident of a very drunk kid falling down.

I live near a big university and it does seem like there is one of these terrible incidents almost every year. They also seemed to happen pretty regularly at the colleges my kids attended. Especially for freshman in the fall semester. Falls, car crashes, fights, sex assaults, alcohol poisoning, etc.

My freshman is one month into the so-called “red zone.” Two months to go. I send a text every Friday afternoon reminding that nothing good happens after midnight. Keeping my fingers crossed.

@sue22 “This may have looked to them like a massive hangover.”

If you haven’t been taught to watch for any potential trauma and related symptoms when friends are drinking, I have no doubt that that is the case. The key to catching more of these is what the students know before hand.

I completely agree @Much2learn. Kids nowadays definitely get a lot more “orientation” around drug and alcohol abuse and sexual assualt when they head off to college their freshman year. But I think that what is still lacking in alcohol education for kids is a more specific set of guidelines/images/scenarios that tell them when a drunk friend needs to do more than just sleep it off.

I feel like we’ve gotten kids to the point that most of they time they aren’t thinking “I don’t want to get help for my friend because me and/or my friend might get in trouble” and are more often thinking “my friend is just drunk and needs to sleep it off”. So now that we’ve made progress in getting kids to the point where they are willing to get help, I think we need to figure out how to make it more clear when help is needed. The Penn State situation does seem to be more of the “we know this kid needs help but we are afraid of the repercussions of getting him help” so those unfortunate situations still occur. But I feel like the tide is turning and that is becoming more the exception rather than the norm.

This is interesting. I’m not sure I want to join in here, but I do find this conversation interesting in terms of @adlgel comments and the discussion around calling 911/getting into trouble/knowing when to get help. Where I live it is legal to drink beer and wine at age 16. One of my dd’s classmates recently drank too much at a local festival and ended up at the hospital (he would be 17). It was his classmates who called the ambulance. Not a whole lot of time passed between the open-air festival, going to a friend’s house and calling the ambulance. The kid was merely dehydrated and slept it off at the hospital.

I feel that the kids were very mature and safe about the whole thing. And I feel part of that had to with the legality of the whole situation and part with the medical system (for locals the whole thing would be free; he is an international, though, so probably there were fees and insurance involved). I guess I feel like the reflex to call the ambulance is probably stronger due to the kids thinking in terms of it being “free” to all citizens – and to his having done nothing illegal.

I’m not advocating here to eliminate the drinking age. I’m just pointing out what happens when one removes the whole “get into trouble” factor.

As far as I know almost all schools have an “amnesty” policy that guarantees there will be no disciplinary action if you are reporting an emergency situation. How aware students are of these policies I am not sure.

I think “almost all” in post #56 is a huge exaggeration. I certainly agree it’s a good idea to have such a policy, but colleges differ a lot in how they regard such issues, or even as to who has authority to make that decision. Students should really be aware of what their particular college’s policy is.

And, by the way, as I understand it many of the colleges that have such a policy mean it to apply to the students who report a problem, not necessarily to the student suffering the problem. So it would still be rational for students to worry about whether they were causing a disciplinary problem for a friend by asking for help for him, if it turned out he just needed to sleep it off.

Agree, not " most" colleges have amnesty policies many, many do not…however, I do think the are a good idea. There are so many freshman who have either never drank or have parents who have no idea they drink and they will be very, very scared to get a potential MIP by an encounter with campus or local police over a 911 ambulance call.

@JHS yes “many” would be more accurate but having said that I am not finding data that reflects all schools nationwide. Some of the data appears to be outdated when checking it against the schools’ websites.

What I do know is that Lafayette and every Ivy League institution have a policy that covers alcohol and shields the victim and caller. Yale’s is the only one that is unclear to me. Additional schools with the same are NYU, Dickinson, Swarthmore, Colgate, Amherst, Vassar, Barnard, Tulane, Fairfield, William and Mary, Syracuse, Fordham, Reed, Oberlin, Hobart, Franklin and Marshall, University of Ct., Pomona and Wesleyan.

Sure there are many more that additional inquiry would turn up.