<p>We are weighing up whether or not our D can go to the All-National festival in October.</p>
<p>She wants to major in music performance at college/conservatory. She is a junior in high school. No one else from her school was selected for All-Nationals this year.</p>
<p>How important is attending the festival for her future career? If she is accepted but does not attend, will this reflect badly on her when it comes to applying/auditioning?</p>
<p>It is so hard for us to figure out the value of this for her future: benefits of attending versus time spent working on what her private teacher wants her to work on.</p>
<p>Is this about vocal or instrumental music? (Just asking–if it’s about voice then “nationals” have even less of an impact, unless she wants to specifically pursue choral music)Any sort of ensemble work can be a learning experience. But attending or not attending will have little to no impact on a “future career”. It’s about the audition.</p>
<p>It’s about instrumental music. And while it’s true that any ensemble experience is good, some really is better than others. We have no way of judging whether or not this will be a better experience.</p>
<p>I looked it up and see that our state did not participate this year. It appears to be connected to public school band programs; I believe my daughter’s band director nominated her for this one year. Playing in this group will no have bearing on music performance major auditions. All serious conservatory students play in orchestras or band programs. It might be fun though, and might be useful for a music education major.</p>
<p>Our D plays in a youth orchestra, a very good one, so she has plenty of ensemble experience. And woodwinds brings up an interesting point. If some states don’t participate, it’s hard to know how representative this All-National designation really is.</p>
<p>To be honest, when my kids were in high school I noted that the more serious instrumentalists (the ones heading to conservatory) didn’t participate in all-state or nationals but rather concentrated on working with their private teachers and on participation in youth orchestras and music school chamber ensembles. I don’t want to step on any toes, but all-state and nationals seems to be better suited to kids who are planning to major in other subjects and pursue music as more of an enrichment or extra-curricular activity.</p>
<p>You might want to see who would be working with your D at the festival. It might be somebody she is interested in meeting or working with.</p>
<p>glassharmonica- I suspect participation in all-state (and therefore nationals) may vary depending on the state and also the instrument and style (band, orchestra or Jazz)</p>
<p>You’re right StacJip! And I know there is a huge band culture in the south and southwest with formidable talent, especially in brass and woodwinds.</p>
<p>musicalkids, my family has had quite a lot of experience with festivals. My son and daughter combined have attended 15 band/orchestra festivals. My daughter is just beginning her senior year and will be attending the All-National festival in Nashville in October. And for those who think that the festivals are “better suited to kids who are planning to major in other subjects and pursue music as more of an enrichment or extra-curricular activity,” you are very wrong. In fact, my daughter is planning to major in flute performance. She spends much of her time concentrating with her private teacher as well as participating in a youth orchestra. AND she participates in her high school music program as well as district, region and all-state band and orchestra festivals.</p>
<p>As far as the all-state/all-national ensembles being only for public schools, that is not true for my state (which is the same state as glassharmonica). All schools, public, private and religious can participate in the district auditions. This would also include homeschooled students, since they can participate in the extracurricular activities of their local school districts. This festival, additionally, is not limited to certain states or regions of the country. In fact, there was no limit on the number of students that can be from a particular state. </p>
<p>There are many reasons why you should allow your daughter to attend the All-National festival. To begin with, with each festival, there are more auditions. With each audition your daughter builds more confidence and becomes more relaxed playing in front of other people. This will only benefit her when it comes time for her college auditions. Going to festivals allows her to meet other kids that share the same passion for music. She will have the opportunity to work with different conductors (and if she’s in the All-National Concert Band, the conductor is absolutely amazing!). She will also get to play music that, most likely, she will never get to play with her high school ensemble. But, most of all, she will have fun. She will get to meet students from all over the country who love to play music. Isn’t that what high school should be about? I don’t remember ever seeing anything that says that a student who wants to pursue music should never be allowed to have fun.</p>
<p>Furthermore, if you weren’t sure about the festival (or didn’t even know what it was), why did you allow your daughter to audition? Unless your daughter completed the application process at school (and her school paid the application fee), then you would have had to play a part in her filling out her application and uploading her video.</p>
<p>I too must disagree with the statement that the All-State, All-National, etc., festivals are better suited to students who will not be majoring in music. What? My daughter is a freshman performance major on violin who attended every All-County, Long Island String Festival, two All-States, and last year, the NAfME All-Eastern Festival (which alternates every year with the NAfME All-National Festival that the OP is referring to). There were many, many students who attended these festivals that my D befriended and still keeps in touch with who are now music performance majors. While it is definitely true that many students who intend on going to a conservatory do not attend these events (whether because of their/their teacher’s single-mindedness and purpose in preparing for college auditions, which I am not knocking btw, or because, if they are in one of the college prep programs like Julliard or MSM, the strict attendance policies of these programs do not allow them to attend All-State/All-Eastern /All National festivals), many do. As Woodwindmom says, the experience of playing the great repertoire, working under a fantastic conductor, making friends with other students who are passionate about playing, and just being away from home a few days is invaluable. It is something my D will never forget and always treasure. Was there time taken away from what she normally practiced for her lessons (and college auditions) in order for her to learn the music, not to mention time away from school and having to catch up on all the homework she missed while attending these festivals? Yes, but I think it was all worth it and so does she. Good luck to you and your daughter whatever your decision! And just for the record, whatever you decide will have no bearing on her chances of being accepted at college. As someone else posted, it’s all in the audition, baby!</p>
<p>In certain states the timing makes it impossible to participate in All-State and also audition for college. In California last year All-State Band was scheduled in February, smack in the middle of audition season. They don’t make it easy for seniors to participate, unless you can somehow be sure ahead of time that your audition dates won’t conflict. My daughter didn’t apply last year for this reason.</p>
<p>Welcome to this forum, which is comprised mostly of parents of young musicians, young musicians themselves, and occasionally college reps. We do strive to be supportive and informative in sharing our knowledge and experience. One thing I really appreciate about this forum is that we respect one another’s perspectives. </p>
<p>In my response to the OP I tried to be clear that I was giving my own perspective, which comes from the many years I was involved in the pre-college music world (I have four kids; one is currently a senior in a conservatory.) My own perspective was strings-focused, by the way. I also live in a large city where there are many opportunities for playing orchestral rep. In all of my combined years of facilitating my kids’ pre-college music learning, no teacher ever suggested entering these competitions. I don’t think these festivals are harmful, however. If the OP’s daughter wants to participate and can afford the time away, good for her. She does mention that her daughter already plays in a high level youth orchestra. Of course, mine is only one perspective-- there are many!</p>
<p>I do stand by my observations. It is what I would have said to her had I met her in person (although I might have been more explicit with details than I will be on a public internet forum.</p>
<p>As for your questioning the OP’s lack of deep knowledge about the festival, my interpretation is that she asked an open-ended question in an attempt to elicit responses from a variety of perspectives. As we can see, Momof2violinists and you feel strongly that these festivals have a lot of value. I don’t happen to feel the same way. Both perspectives are okay. The OP can put them in the hopper, along with others and come to her own conclusions. (StacJip has a great point, for example, and Lastbird gives a good example of why no conservatory-bound seniors in California would participate in All-State. Nothing is ever black and white.</p>
<p>glassharmonica, I certainly agree there can be different opinions on the subject and of course nothing is ever black and white, but I’m just curious as to why you think there is not much value in an All-State or All-National festival. I gave my reasons for why I think they are valuable, so I would really be interested in hearing your specific objections to these things (as well as the reasons why not one teacher you know - I assume you mean private teachers, not school music teachers - would ever recommend going). I’m not challenging you by any means, I just would really like to know. Perhaps my opinion is colored by the fact that I taught orchestra/strings for 33 years before retiring 2 years ago and have actually chaired/conducted some of these festivals, therefore seeing what goes into them as well as the end results, along with having two daughters who participated in all festivals, as well as youth orchestras (I too live near an urban area with lots of performing opportunities for kids), summer music camps, etc., the whole magilla, before both becoming music performance majors (violin, obviously!).</p>
<p>I don’t know whether these festivals are more “suited to students aiming for nonmusic majors,” but here are some of the reasons we’ve seen in our area for students not participating in them.</p>
<ol>
<li>Schedule conflict with precollege program.</li>
<li>School does not participate in festival.</li>
<li>Festival conflicts with college auditions.</li>
<li>Student already has sufficient ensemble opportunities and does not wish to pursue more.</li>
<li>Student plays for personal enjoyment and does not want to be judged.</li>
<li>Religious objection to travel or performance on scheduled dates.</li>
<li>Teacher does not want student to spend time learning audition piece for festival instead of teacher-selected rep.</li>
<li>Teacher feels that audition piece chosen by festival introduces inappropriate technique for student’s current level of performance.</li>
<li>Teacher, family, or student does not see value for student in participation.</li>
<li>Who knows? There are probably thousands of valid reasons not to participate.</li>
</ol>
<p>Just as there are probably thousands of valid reasons to participate.</p>
<p>Stradmom, I am very aware of all these specific (and good) reasons, but it’s the “they are of no value” one I’m trying to wrap my mind around. How can something like this be of NO value?</p>
<p>Momof2violinists, I was about to answer but Stradmom has answered beautifully. In our case it would have been numbers 1,2,7,9, a private teacher’s advice negative thoughts about adjudication based on that teacher’s 30+ years in the field. Note: my kids were not forbidden to join the festivals; simply not encouraged to. One of my daughters did go to some festivals (under pressure from her public school), which caused difficulties for her in terms of missed rehearsals for her private music school youth orchestra and ensemble. For another daughter, the one who did go the conservatory route, these festivals were not an option to consider at all, because pre-college schedule was airtight; she could not have afforded to miss lessons or sessions at her pre-college music program. </p>
<p>That said, I appreciate your perspective and have a lot of respect for public school music educators.</p>
<p>My daughter’s teachers (she plays two instruments) did not encourage her to participate in All-State or anything similar. Her youth orchestra’s Saturday rehearsals conflicted with all of the public school’s competitions as well. She did All-District/All-State in 9th grade, and then had enough of it. She did not like the music much, and felt that the process of assuring that all parts of the state were included eliminated more than half of the top auditioning players from All-State. Most of the woodwind/brass players from her local orchestra youth fellowship did not audition for All-State, or only did it in their 9th grade year, and none of the string players ever did it. Beginning in her 10th grade, my daughter preferred auditioning for concerto competitions and professional performing over school events.</p>
<p>The OP asked if the All-National groups were essential for an aspiring professional musician. The answer is no, they are not. No one activity is essential. Aspiring professional musicians find different musical activities to get involved in, and there is a great deal of variation.</p>