<p>Do you think prospective music majors need to have done music competitions during high school? Is that important to schools? Or is it all about the audition? How much weight does experience carry?</p>
<p>I can’t speak for the classical world. But I do know that for my son, a Jazz musician, competitions for all-state positions and ensemble positions and festivals were all experiences that normalized the audition process for him. Over time he became less nervous and stressed about performing for just a few people or for a group of people who were judging him because that was just something he did as an aspiring musician and that in turn made auditions for colleges go much more smoothly and allowed him to really show what he was capable of.</p>
<p>I also think competitions help you figure out where you stand in relations to others. We “thought” my kid was talented but it wasn’t until he started winning competitions, and getting responses from adjudicators, that we realized that he would be “conservatory” material. </p>
<p>I don’t think winning competitions mattered for college acceptance (in other words, the college won’t care), but knowing our kid’s level of talent helped us target specific schools.</p>
<p>Preparing for and participating in competitions such as All-County, All-State, etc. are great learning experiences. </p>
<p>The opportunity to work with different conductors and adjudicators allows the kids exposure to different styles and methods of teaching that adds greatly to their musical knowledge. It also helps to build an extensive repertoire.</p>
<p>I have found these type of competitions very valuable.</p>
<p>The college is going to look at your talent, your experience, your awards and your academic record. The relative importance of each area depends on the school. As stated above, entering competitions can be valuable experience in both the audition process and acquiring musical skills. And a successful outcome gives you another line on your resume, as you can state that you were in All-State or won a solo competition. If you do not have the opportunity or choose not to participate in any competitions, you lose these benefits and will have to rely more on the strength of your audition to demonstrate your talent and musicianship.</p>
<p>At most schools the audition will far outweigh any list of competitions that you have won. I don’t think that most of the auditioning panels were even aware of the competitions my son had won. </p>
<p>Not all schools required this information; for those that did, I am not certain that the information was passed on to the panel; when it was passed on, I suspect that the panel was busy enough that they frequently would not have had time to read the lists of competitions won for the 300 students auditioning; when a list was submitted, was passed on to faculty, and was read by faculty, I suspect they might not remember who won what.</p>
<p>So, if your question is (as you appear to have stated): “Do I need to have competed in order to gain entry to music school?”, then the answer is a definite “no.” You can get into the best music schools in the world without ever having competed in anything as long as you play well.</p>
<p>If you question is (as the above posters seem to have assumed): “Would it be valuable for me to compete?”, then the answer is a definite “yes” for the very wise reasons that the above posters have given.</p>
<p>My son’s first teacher (with whom he studied for 11 years) did not like competitions at all and thus did nothing to facilitate or help prepare for them. As parents, we chose to enter my son in competitions and believed that they were valuable experiences. Another student of the same teacher who studied with him for over 15 years chose not to do any competitions prior to or during her bachelor’s and master’s degrees and she has had a very successful career thus far; she did, however, gain tons of performing and auditioning experience through other venues, and while working on her PhD with another teacher, she entered a single competition and won it (and it included a national tour of solo performances).</p>
<p>I think that participation in music competitions and events indicates a certain amount of dedication and passion. I am sure there are students that are admitted without it, but it certainly would be something that they look at. Solos and recitals would demonstrate this as well.</p>
<p>These are all very helpful responses-thank you!</p>
<p>My son’s cello teacher doesn’t have solo recitals, so that is a drawback, but I think he will help prepare my son for at least one competition this year. My son is only considering music as a major, but I have encouraged him to get at least two concertos ready for competitions this year. His teacher also isn’t a member of the MTAC (Music Teacher’s Association of California), so my son isn’t eligible to compete in most of the competitions, unfortunately.</p>
<p>My son did audition for, and was accepted into, a small selective summer chamber program this summer and just performed a wonderful quintet with his group. He is a strong cellist and getting stronger and this experience was valuable because he was with some very strong players in our (large) area.</p>
<p>He has been playing for 10+ years; he busks (street performs), has played in numerous weddings and other events, has been in a community/university orchestra (but dropped out due to his hearing loss for which he had surgery to improve), and has done recordings.</p>
<p>Though he’s classically trained, he loves playing Celtic, fiddle, and rock (think of the 2Cellos, which is what he does when busking, along with another young cellist) and has performed duets and solos for fund raisers and other events.</p>
<p>So, he has a lot of performing experience, but only did one competition, probably 3 years ago (didn’t win, but was a less confident player back then).</p>
<p>He was also invited to join the youth philharmonic and soloist strings orchestra that was was a part of this summer but for now, he is unable to join because of a conflict.</p>
<p>His teacher has seen “the best” cellists in So. Cal. and knows that my son isn’t one of them yet, but I think he can move him along. However, it will involve very few competitions.</p>
<p>He loves his teacher who has been his mentor, friend, and biggest advocate. (My son has been through many health problems and his teacher has always believed in him) He isn’t ready for a change to a competitive teacher, if that makes sense.</p>
<p>What do you all think? Just a few competitions could get him to the next level is what I’m hoping.</p>
<p>I am of mixed mind about competitions, in that a lot of them to be honest may not measure a lot, there are a ton of the competitions out there, some are probably indicative of playing ability in that they draw high level students, others, well, may not measure much…</p>
<p>I think the value in them is in learning to prepare for things like auditions, it is about learning to focus on a piece and prepare it for performance, and how to deal with nerves and such. In terms of real world value, though, I don’t think they are the be all and end all either, auditioning for summer programs, for chamber programs, for youth orchestras and such can be just as valuable, and if I had my choice, it would be not to focus on competitions to do other kinds of auditions…but that is me. Again, you have to be careful of competitions, there is a kid locally to where I live people make a big deal out of, he has won all these local competitions, people think he is the next heifetz, and quite bluntly, he probably would not get accepted on violin into a top level pre college program, yet he has been concertmaster of all state and all region, yada yada…</p>
<p>In terms of the value of them on entrance to music schools, I can’t speak for every music school in the country, but for conservatories especially, they basically don’t matter other than for any experience it gives in doing auditions. Having them on a CV might help get into an academic program as an EC, much the same way being in some of the top level music prep programs can lean heavily in admits, but in terms of music schools, they won’t matter, it is all going to be the audition and potentially if any of the panel members already knows you (that primarily for studio placement), it isn’t a a combination of things, that audition pretty much is going to be it. </p>
<p>Again, using competitions as an opportunity/learning experience is a good thing, but they may or may not say much about your abilities, and in terms of predicting your future, or helping get into music programs by winning them, they matter little if at all.</p>
<p>“Competitions are for horses, not artists.”–Bela Bartok</p>
<p>Don’t tell Mr. Bartok that I only partially agree with this…! Rather than repeat what many of the posters have already said about competitions–and I agree that much can be gained from entering them, especially if there is a financial incentive–I’d like to also assert that the college audition will be the most important factor. As violindad stated, there are so many prospective students, it’s difficult to keep track of that type of information, and I honestly don’t know many professors who put a lot of stock into them anyhow. The audition performance will tell them what they need to know.</p>
<p>In addition, many view competitions as a very narrow way of assessing talent because frequently, winners are chosen for their flashy display of technique and stage presence, rather than presenting true musicianship. Technical mastery is a means to an end…a tool for musical expression, not the ultimate goal. Some of these competition winners have perfected the art of winning, and ultimately do not possess the important characteristics necessary for a career. </p>
<p>Feedback also must be weighed carefully–both positive and negative–unless consistently mentioned in the comments sheets. For example, if “beautiful tone” appears time after time, it’s probably safe to assume that the performer has a gorgeous sound. If “work on intonation” is a constant theme, it’s probably safe to assume that the performer should work on their pitch. It’s important to take into consideration the feedback that applies (and asking your private instructor for perspective on this) and forget about what doesn’t. Easy to say, sometimes difficult to do.</p>
<p>It’s interesting that your son’s private teacher does not hold recitals, but nothing is preventing you from presenting your own private concert. Churches, schools are good options, and so is your house, or the home of a friend. I highly recommend it as it’s great preparation for those upcoming college auditions. Best of luck to you and your son!</p>
<p>Another vote for “No” – lack of a track record of competitions did not seem to affect my D’s acceptance to most of the schools and conservatories she applied to. She had entered only a couple of competitions ever, as her prior teacher was not part of that world. What really prepared her for auditions was wise selection of audition repertoire and expert coaching from her current teacher, as well as many performances of the audition repertoire. It sounds like your son is getting a lot of performance experience already. Good luck to him, whatever he decides to pursue!</p>
<p>Pro Musician raises a point against competitions I think, and that is many of them are one dimensional, they often tend to focus on technical brilliance (on the violin, playing with tight intonation is a biggie), though stage presence IME is often as bad as musicality and musicianship (the one competition my son got into, on the national level, had a kid win I couldn’t believe won it, technically he wasn’t that great, and he was aweful on stage, grimaced, shifted from foot to foot, had no stage presence, and his musicality was basically doing what his teacher taught…meanwhile there was this fantastic girl who was the real deal, who finished third)…</p>
<p>There can be benefits to competitions, they can have cash prizes that help pay for things, they often offer performance opportunities, but as to other factors, not so much, including that to be honest, many of them are judged by people who may not have a clue what is out there musically, what is going on in music programs at the college level…</p>
<p>This isn’t just pre college, there is a lot of argument if the competitions, even the big ones, matter post college, and there are some interesting arguments about that.</p>
<p>In our area, it seems that kids from certain teachers are always the winners, at least it seemed that way when my oldest did a few competitions on the violin. It was a little discouraging; I imagine politics plays a part even in the music world.</p>
<p>Very good input from everyone. My son just landed another paid gig doing cello duets, (at a baby shower of all the things!) so he’ll have fun with that, I am sure. :-)</p>
<p>At the least, he can try one or two this year, if nothing else, for the purpose of polishing his concerto(s) should he decide to be a music major and have to audition next year.</p>
<p>On the violin and piano there are certain teachers that make a big deal about competitions as the last poster noted, and in part it is because winning competitions is a way to attract new students, to say “my kids won x competitions, etc”…this is especially attractive to parents whose notions of success are hierarchy, ‘being the best’ (common among, but not limited to, Asian parents) is the big deal, and competitions are one of the ways. </p>
<p>My S did only one competition his whole time studying the violin and will be attending a top notch conservatory in a very difficult to get in studio, and plenty of kids get into top programs who have never done one…on the other hand, he had the experience of auditioning and getting into competitive summer programs, orchestras, prep programs, which probably did a lot more for him, a lot of the kids who win those competitions disappear (in part because many of their parents see going into music a waste of time, they are playing the instrument and doing the competitions because the parents feel it helps get them into top notch schools, think the Tiger Mom and her daughters). </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with competitions if taken in the right spirit, but I wouldn’t worry about them, I would worry about finding the right teacher and having the kid put in the effort, that is the only way to make it into a decent music program and then into a career:)</p>
<p>I was very down with music as a contest but came to see these competitions differently. We used them only as performance opportunities. Having a target date to prep a piece for is realistic for future performance majors. Since we live in a highly competitive area we had the luxury of not trying to win them and this took the pressure off. Very quickly my kid started actually enjoying them. The big stage , the judges and the chance to hear players from outside her usual sphere. If you are going to do them be sure and watch and enjoy the other kids. And yes, they can be fantastic preps for auditions</p>
<p>Competitions may not directly affect admissions decisions, but they can help prepare for college auditions. They can be the first money earned with one’s art. And I know for certain they can make a difference when appealing for more financial aid.</p>
<p>I won’t be redundant of any of the other great comments. I am a believer in competitions. In addition to helping students getting used to the ‘art of planning and execution’ it also is just a great real world experience. Life is not fair, judging is not always perfect, others performers can be petty, accompanists can be a no-show, it can be too hot in the auditorium, your zipper broke and you brought two shoes that don’t match. Learn to cope with what life deals you. The more practice you have, the better you will get.</p>
<p>One other comment - competitions are also a great networking opportunity. Talk to others about what they are doing for summer programs, what schools they are looking at, what scholarships they are applying for. Who are the judges and do they teach at some schools that you want to apply to? Maybe there is a masterclass at the competition also. Make the most of any outing! If it’s at a college, take a look around and ask questions of the students.</p>
<p>No college will take a competition winner with a bad audition over an applicant with a great audition and no competition experience. My DD only did a few, including Solo & Ensemble through school (which was important for school-related reasons). They were great practice motivators, and there is no substitute for performance experience than performing, but it is really isn’t necessary. If there is one nearby and you want to try out an audition piece, than why not. Otherwise, unless you love to compete for its own sake, don’t bother.</p>
<p>I agree with Lawmom on her thoughts about competitions. I think the idea of doing them for the performance opportunity, to have a goal to prepare for, are all wonderful, and yes, you can meet people at them. However, I also will add that there are negatives, at least in the violin world a lot of those competitions are not exactly collegial, and it can make the experience negative. Parents and sadly kids can view this as war, and you won’t see much networking or sharing of ideas there, and their teachers are often as bad. You do run into nice kids and parents, of course, but it also can be a disquieting experience, there is a difference between the real world and what happens in a competition, and IME the real world is competitive in different ways. It also can give a kid a false impression of how good they are, it can make them think because a panel of judges who may or may not know what they are doing decide on someone for reasons that may have nothing to do with how you are evaluated ‘in the real world’…I think with the right mentality going in they are fine, but if you go in with the idea the only thing that matters is winning,it can be a negative. Yo Yo Ma claims he entered one competition and finished dead last, and if you look at some amazing musicians none of them ever won a competition, or even did many…which should tell you a lot. </p>
<p>I also have found the competitions where they give feedback to be of dubious value, a lot of the judges on these things may not be at the level to really help decode where someone is good and bad, and private teachers often spend a lot of time getting their students to understand that the feedback may be bogus (one true story: Violinist I know, who both teaches at a high level and is a member of a world class orchestra, went to a violin competition for a nephew…kid played I believe the first movement of the Mendelsohn, and 2 of the judges told him he was playing it wrong, that he was playing it in a baroque style when it was romantic…the violinist when he heard that went nuts, and told his Nephew, who was upset, that he played it in a Romantic fashion, and pointed out the two judges who wrote that were people who probably wouldn’t know the difference, might not even be violin specialists…). </p>
<p>As far as the influence of competitions on admissions and financial aid, I think as a reason to do them it may not be so strong. If you are trying for an academic admit, then it might weight strongly as an EC, especially since academic admissions people don’t know the Queen Elizabeth from the Elizabeth competition in anywhere, USA, so yeah, it might help there. In terms of music school admissions and merit aid, I would contend it does little, at least at the big music schools, and I am pretty certain of it. Sure, if a kid comes in having won the Queen Elizabeth or finished strongly in a major competition, they probably will have a good shot at getting into a school and getting strong merit aid, but that shouldn’t be a surprise, you win a competition at that level you are playing at an incredibly high level, and the school may want you because of that…but winning competitions won’t get you in for most other competitions from what I have seen, the audition does that, and likewise, merit aid comes about by how well you play on the audition, if anyone is there to speak for you (teacher, administrator), and also how much your family needs the money. </p>
<p>Could winning a competition get you more aid in some schools? Potentially, but I would hazard a guess they are not the top schools in terms of competitive admits, the CIM’s, Rice’s, Juilliard, NEC, etc, etc, but rather a program trying to attract a high level student who otherwise might not go there…</p>
<p>Would winning a competition get you more money. That would depend on the school and the situation, I’m guessing. I’m sure that winning a competition, like being first stand in a state orchestra or participating in a prestigious seminar, would show that you could operate under pressure and had drive. But in the end I’m sure it’s mostly playing and character- that was the surprise to me when we were going to test lessons and auditions, that many of the teachers placed character and the ability to learn quickly over technical prowess or competition medals. They seemed earnest and I found this heartening.</p>
<p>Then again, I found myself appealing financial offers and if my kid had had some competition wins I’m sure I would have used those in the appeal.</p>