A discussion - prestige vs feel

<p>Only if they qualify financially. There are lots and lots of sports stars at ivies paying full freight.</p>

<p>ya i know for a fact my friend received money from yale for being on the gymnastics team, it was their way of recruiting her and trying to get her to come to their school over others, she didn't get a full scholarship or anything but it was still a scholarship. I also know a pastor who went to Harvard with a scholarship for football that paid most of his tuition, however that was 30 years ago so times have changed obviously lol but im just saying you can get some money for sports if they want you bad enough but they just dont call it an athletic scholarship, theyre probably unknown and not mentioned unless the school approaches you and offers it</p>

<p>Christina, simply, you are incorrect. Do the research. These schools offer no sports or merit based scholarships. The do have the most generous need based aid of any colleges. The people you know clearly had their financial need met, they did not get the money for the sport. I know many star athletes at ivies and not one got a cent they did not qualify for on financial need. Wealthy kids who want an athletic scholarship need to go to Stanford, Duke and a few others.</p>

<p>hmom5, it is true that Ivy League universities do not officially give out athletic scholarships. However, to say that they do not accept students based purely on their athletic ability and give them overly generous financial aid offers would not be accurate either. It is common knowledge that the Ivy League encourage middle-of-the-road athletes (not Division I material with professional potential because those will usually opt for programs like Cal, Duke, Michigan, Northwestern, Stanford, UNC, UVa etc...) with . Those students are neither exceptional athletes, nor are they top students(so they will not be accepted into schools like Cal, Duke, Michigan, Northwestern, Stanford, UNC, UVa etc...) and yet, they are admitted into the Ivy League and given generous financial aid packages.</p>

<p>Alexander, they absolutely accept students based on athletic ability. But if the kid is from a family that can pay, the kid won't get a red cent. Do they stretch need based aid as far as possible for kids they want? Sure. But this poster was saying she had friends who got in with athletic scholarships and I think it's important for kids to understand ivies have no such scholarships.</p>

<p>I agree with almost all that you say hmom5. But I am not so sure about this:</p>

<p>"But if the kid is from a family that can pay, the kid won't get a red cent."</p>

<p>I would be surprised if that were the case. I have anecdotal evidence that I will not bore you with. Needless to say, I am fairly certain that Ivy League institutions will bend their rules substantially to attract certain athletes.</p>

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hmom5, it is true that Ivy League universities do not officially give out athletic scholarships. However, to say that they do not accept students based purely on their athletic ability and give them overly generous financial aid offers would not be accurate either. It is common knowledge that the Ivy League encourage middle-of-the-road athletes (not Division I material with professional potential because those will usually opt for programs like Cal, Duke, Michigan, Northwestern, Stanford, UNC, UVa etc...) with . Those students are neither exceptional athletes, nor are they top students(so they will not be accepted into schools like Cal, Duke, Michigan, Northwestern, Stanford, UNC, UVa etc...) and yet, they are admitted into the Ivy League and given generous financial aid packages.

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<p>Let's stop kidding ourselves. The academic bar for athlete admits goes far, far lower at Michigan than it would at any Ivy.</p>

<p>Yes, it is the_prestige. I never said it wasn't. The academic bar for RECRUITED athletes is significantly lower at any Division I program. But like I said, those athletes aren't recruited and are not good enough to receive an athletic offer from a school such as Michigan. If those students apply to Michigan, they would have to get in based purely on their academic track record.</p>

<p>to answer the OP's question: for me it was the same school, so it didn't matter</p>

<p>Alexandre-- there are strict rules on how far they can bend and how many players they can bend for that are set by the Ivy League schools collectively.</p>

<p>Packages are pretty much never given to people with no demonstrated need, but they will be increased sometimes beyond EFC calculations (it happens for some other students who are not athletes as well, sometimes, for specific reasons) to attract some students.</p>

<p>Most, however, are just happy that with subpar stats they're being admitted. The majority of athletes, however, are just as good as the general body at Ivies, really. They may not be the upper quartile of Brown students, but they fall well within the range of the non-athlete population most of the time. Each coach gets a certain number of flags they can apply to candidates that are not likely to get in simply on the merit of their academic performance.</p>

<p>But this has nothing to do with the OP and I still don't get why this has been transitioned to...</p>

<p>Bore me! Among my kid's peers are so many athletes who never saw a dime and were far from rich. I'd really like to know if I'm wrong here.</p>

<p>And from what I've seen, even when it's wink, wink, we'll stretch a little, it has required back up documentation in the file, i.e. mom has extra medical expenses they may not have allowed for others. I really do believe they take their FA rules pretty seriously. I think they only bend when the kid has real need to try to be competitive with schools that can give full or half rides.</p>

<p>hmom, i never said that either of those people didn't demonstrate need so i have no idea why you're saying i did..im not "simply incorrect" ha and i dont need to do research when i have an actual event that shows more than statistics, these awards of money are not publicized or even called athletic scholarships but they are used as incentives to get athletes to attend ivies over other schools.. they both demonstrated need and i'm sure the school listed it as a need based scholarship aid but they told my friend specifically that if she chose to go to yale and join the gymnastics team they could offer her a scholarship, but also she had a 1550 SAT and a 4.5 GPA i mean she wasn't some slacker who got in just because of sports but im sure with the tough competition she was boosted in consideration because of it, but ya im done sry im getting everyone off topic lol i just wanted to share her experience with it and offer my 2 cents =]</p>

<p>well not every athlete gets money it depends a lot on if they're good enough and if they're in high demand from a college, i also know many athletes who didn't get a penny for college athletics but i also know some that did.. thats irrelevant as every college is different and every student has a unique situation</p>

<p>hmom, you are too defensive. Nobody said that there is an abuse of the system. But for in-demand athletes (i.e. athletes that are relatively talented and participate in a popular sport), academic requirements are dropped (I would love to see the average class rank, high school GPA, SAT/ACT/SAT II results of Basketball, Football and Hockey players at Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton) and their financial aid packages, in some instances, will be very generous next to their established need.</p>

<p>I'm not trying to be defensive at all. As I said, give me the facts if I'm wrong because I really want to understand the facts. I don't have a dog in this race, it just goes against what I think I've witnessed over many years. Stanford, Duke and Berkeley--that's another story!</p>

<p>I do know what it takes to get in because I've observed this for years. There is a quantitative system that adds together SAT scores and GPA to spit out a number. The athletes also must have classes aproved of by the clearing house. I've seen athletes ivies really wanted take the SAT over and over because they needed 20 more points, fail to get the points and need to move on. So yes, they bend, but not nearly as much as folks think. And these were all kids from elite prep schools who would have made it at these schools. There are also kids who have posted here this year about getting coach promises and then not making it past admissions.</p>

<p>The part I don't know for sure about is the aid. So I'd love to hear even anecdotal proof beyond 'I have a friend who got an athletic scholarship.'</p>

<p>Where's JD? Did your DS see a cent from Dartmouth?</p>

<p>hmom, I will not give any anecdotal evidence. That is not something I do. However, if you honestly believe that the average SAT score of a Basketball or Football or Hockey player at Harvard is 1490/1600 (as it is for the rest of the studfent body), or that those athletes are given similar consideration for Financial aid as the overall student population, that's fine. It just isn't reflective of what I have seen.</p>

<p>I agree with hmom5 based on my experiences. I know two football players at Harvard and they both scored 1500+ on the old SAT. Alexandre, I think you're basing your views on what you've seen going on at Michigan, but you can't compare a D1 school to an Ivy. Think about it this way: you would never think that the standards are lower for the Harvard Tennis team would you? Football has a reputation as being a "jock" sport in most schools, but Ivies are different in this regard. That's why they are so bad at football and basketball.;)</p>

<p>I partially agree with both sides of this discussion. One of the students at my school just got a full 4-year scholarship to a top school for soccer, but besides being an amazing soccer player, the student is amazingly smart and hard-working (but the down side to this is that they don't have a "social life"). </p>

<p>I have seen some students with not so great grades get amazing scholarships for sports too. I think it depends on the individual person and the school. At my school though, most of the people in sports do excellent in school. Our school has rules where you can't let your grades drop much if you are doing a sport and try to make sure that everyone is on their own right path.</p>

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Even at the nation's elite colleges and universities, athletes have become so narrowly focused on sports that they are far removed from their classmates academically, socially and culturally, according to a study of intercollegiate athletics in the Ivy League and at 25 other highly selective colleges.</p>

<p>Such institutions do not have the same kind of problems with low graduation rates for student athletes that less selective schools have. But the study found that the recruited athletes were admitted with significantly lower grades and College Board scores and then performed more poorly than would be expected for students with those grades and test scores.

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The authors said the elite colleges had felt a false sense of well-being because they did not have the same problems as schools with big-time sports programs. But, they said, recruited athletes actually represent a much larger part of their student bodies: almost 20 percent of the men in the Ivy League.</p>

<p>...</p>

<p>The authors said that once it had been athletes mainly in football, basketball and ice hockey who lagged academically but that now it was athletes across the full range of men's and most women's sports.

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The study said recruited athletes enjoyed a large advantage for admission. For male recruits, the odds of admission to the Ivy League colleges were more than four times greater than for comparable male applicants not on a coach's list; the advantage for female recruits was even higher.

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Study</a> of Elite Colleges Finds Athletes Are Isolated From Classmates - New York Times</p>

<p>Thank you for that information IBclass06.</p>