A discussion - prestige vs feel

College Search & Selection
61

<p>What are my chances of getting into a top tier college, and where should I apply? </p>

<hr>

<p>I am an African American male- Junior in High School
34 ACT
20/419-rank
5.5/5.0 w
3.75/4.0 uw
2000+ hours of caddieing March 2006-present
spanish honor society, national honor society, diversity club, amensty international, peer leadership network, math tutor, saxaphone for last 8 years
attended National Youth Leadership Forum in summer 08
interested in pre med...family is upper middle class but cannot afford high tuition b/c of 4 kids and my brother is just a year younger than me</p>

62

<p>well i would say you have great stats and can get into a great college! as far as good pre med programs i dont know.. but if you are looking for a great education but not high costs i would try to find a very good public school as private schools tend to be alot pricier. also, try to find a school in state to save money, but if you have bigger aspirations go for it! just make sure you apply for a ton of scholarships! also, with such great stats many schools will probably give you some great academic scholarships! my biggest advice though is KEEP IT UP!!! thats the most important, dont let anything slip and start looking into scholarships now as some can be time consuming and require essays and what not.. good luck!</p>

63

<p>

I'm not sure I see your point. Are you suggesting that someone would earn more money simply because (s)he chooses to attend a more prestigious college? </p>

<p>The evidence suggests otherwise:
Princeton</a> - News - Elite Colleges Not Necessarily Best Ticket to High Earnings</p>

<p>USATODAY.com</a> - Wanted: CEO, no Ivy required</p>

64

<p>yeah thats exactly what i said IBclass06, COLLEGE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT you can get a great education anywhere you go if you focus and want it bad enough and you can go to an ivy and not learn anything it just depends on the person</p>

65

<p>The concepts of "fit" and "prestige" exist and are both important. The question is when does one trump the other? The OP gave the example of Stanford vs BU. In that specific instance, even if one feels more at home at BU, Stanford is a much wiser choice. Unless a student would be miserable at Stanford, he/she should chose Stanford over BU. I really cannot think of a reasonable scenario where a student would chose BU over Stanford unless Bu gives a full ride scholraship and Stanford is at near full cost...and money is an issue for the student in question. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if one were chosing between Stanford and Brown and the former were a better fit, picking Brown would not be an issue because it is almost as prestigious as Stanford.</p>

<p>I also should make clear that the decision should not be based on earning power after graduation. Chosing a university should be based on getting a great education. That is what earns a university prestige. Finding a job if one gets a great education should be relatively easy.</p>

<p>Of course, the above assumes that financial concerns are met.</p>

66

<p>yeah i completely agree with alexandre thats what i wanted to say i just couldnt manage it as short and eloquent lol</p>

67

<p>Yeah, but the real question is "does a BU over Stanford decision warrant a "slap in the face" infraction or even a more serious "swift kick to the groin" penalty?"</p>

68

<p>"Yeah, but the real question is "does a BU over Stanford decision warrant a "slap in the face" infraction?"</p>

<p>Yeah, but only from 2 types of people:</p>

<p>1) Investors (i.e., parents)
2) Applicants rejected by Stanford, particularly those who were rejected from the wait list</p>

69

<p>Money, other than to make enough to support the lifestyle you desire, is not part of my argument.</p>

<p>However, there is no doubt that some of the studies often cited are bunk, kids from prestigious colleges have an easier time getting high paying jobs. This is not to say anyone from any college can not become rich or is shut out of doing anything, it is simply easier from grads of some schools to walk into high paying jobs.</p>

70

<p>This whole debate is stupid. First, did the original poster even say which two colleges he was picking between? If so, then did he ever say what major/college he was pursuing so we could see if the opportunity cost of going to the school he liked was worth not going to the prestigious school? For instance, random flagship state schools across the USA beat the Ivies by many, many ranking points in certain fields.</p>

<p>Second, who says it's so black and white ring of fire? There is the option of going somewhere where you are happy and it is a good school too.</p>

<p>Third, ring of fire/supporters; to get to those 70 years after the first four, YOU GO THROUGH THE FIRST 4. So if you hate your college, and screw it up, then you may as well have went to the place that made you happy. Chances are you'll hate college at some point, especially if you are in a hard science/engineering field, so you better go somewhere you don't hate off the bat. In that same vein, if you don't like what you do you will not make the 200K a year, so the 65K is the only option. At least there, you have opportunity for growth because you like it.</p>

<p>Fourth, I'm going to college to get a job after; i.e. for vocational training dressed up in a University suit. Most engineers are like that. However, I still like the suit sometimes.</p>

<p>Finally, the home schooled kid from China is probably not smarter than the Ivy League graduate, and he can't work at Goldman because A) he has no legal status in the US, and B) He probably speaks poor English, smart as his fat head is. Also the middle class Chinese people's happiness is not contingent on their money. I've seen a lot of folks living in the ghetto in their mom's basement be happy as can be, while high falutin' financiers hate their life.</p>

<p>Bottom line, one of the things ruining America is the lack of subtlety and nuance. The, you're with us or against us attitude. The world is shades of gray, so is college and your college experience. The sooner you understand that, the better.</p>

71

<p>The more prestigious colleges are higher-ranked for some very good reasons, though not all of those reasons may matter to the individual student. My kids weren't too concerned about the quantity or quality of study abroad programs, for example. Other students care deeply about them. Still, while attending a top-ranked school is no guarantee of future success, it is a wise and practical choice as far as risk-management goes--especially in a bad economy. You can definitely rock the world coming from Podunk U, but it's probably easier to do so after attending Elite U. These schools know what they're doing.</p>

<p>Oh, and Brown students seem to be a very privileged lot who have the unique luxury of worrying about being happy and personally fulfilled while saving the world. I haven't met one Brown student yet doesn't have this mindset. They all seem to go off and work on an organic farm in Costa Rica or some such endeavor. My kids can't think like that because we're not wealthy. They know they will need to study something practical and go right to work to pay off their college loans and support themselves. Therefore, whether or not they'd be happier somewhere comfy (and who wouldn't be happy with no core, and taking unlimited classes pass/fail?) is irrelevant!</p>

72

<p>
[quote]
i also want to say that modestmelody goes to BROWN. thats an ivy and im pretty sure shes smarter than all of us,

[/quote]
</p>

<ol>
<li>I'm pretty sure modestmelody is male</li>
<li>Speak for yourself</li>
</ol>

73

<p>
[quote]

Oh, and Brown students seem to be a very privileged lot who have the unique luxury of worrying about being happy and personally fulfilled while saving the world. I haven't met one Brown student yet doesn't have this mindset. They all seem to go off and work on an organic farm in Costa Rica or some such endeavor. My kids can't think like that because we're not wealthy. They know they will need to study something practical and go right to work to pay off their college loans and support themselves. Therefore, whether or not they'd be happier somewhere comfy (and who wouldn't be happy with no core, and taking unlimited classes pass/fail?) is irrelevant!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There's a lot more to it than that. I recommend starting here if you want to learn more:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/brown-university/385841-brown-curriculum-university-college-explained.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/brown-university/385841-brown-curriculum-university-college-explained.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Wanting to be involved with civic engagement and social change is not something which is a luxury, it's often a struggle, and Brown's embracing of this mindset is an asset, really. Organic farming in Costa Rica is not as common as working on high levels of policy advocacy, design, and implementation in inner cities, for instance. We do go right to work, 65% do, about 25% go right into graduate school, and about 5% are doing these more service oriented Ameri-core style programs (although quite a few of our 65% at work are working at non-profits, etc). This was just in our report to NEASC for re-accreditation. So yes, Brown students are working. Our median salary ten-years out is something you should probably look at to dispel this sense that we're somehow more privileged as opposed to the fact that we have different goals, perhaps partly shaped by our education, hard for me to say. Most elite schools, however, have social justice and civic engagement as missions for its students since they're supposed to be entering society as better citizens, not just economic earners.</p>

<p>Oh, and ilovebagels--</p>

<p>I am male, though the mistake is common. My alias on here comes from song lyrics, not personal characteristics or my name, but I do find it interesting the mistake is often made on here. As for being smarter than you or anyone else... who knows and who cares?</p>

74

<p>"working on high levels of policy advocacy, design, and implementation in inner cities"</p>

<p>what exactly does that mean?</p>

75

<p>JD-- are you being serious or facetious... I can't tell...</p>

76

<p>im sorry i called you a girl modestmelody lol</p>

<p>and i really dont understand why people act like brown isnt a good school just because the students tend (and this is a very broad generalization, many students are not liberal) to be more liberal and environmentally concious.. so this means its unrealistic job wise and not a very good school? i dont understand your reasoning TheGFG.. These people didnt just walk into a school like Brown they earned it through hardwork and regarding the current environmental crisis, environmental jobs are actually on the rise although its pretty stereotypical to assume thats the only type of job Brown graduates look for.. i might be wrong, but im pretty sure Brown has a few more majors besides environmental studies..? its also extremely stereotypical to assume everyone who goes to brown, or for an ivy for that matter, comes from a trust fund family and has no real goals in life, plenty of them qualify for scholarships through their academics and other ways, my friend recently went to Yale on a full scholarship for gymnastics. this is just a very stereotypical way to look at things and its pretty ignorant and closed minded.</p>

<p>NAFTA is completely right, this is all shades of grey, every single person has different preferences for college and this debate is just going in circles.</p>

77

<p>Not only do we have more than environmental sciences, we're one of the top feeder schools for law, pre-med, and business and happen to have the oldest engineering program (vocational training in university suit, most of the time, like NAFTA said) in the Ivy League (third oldest in the country). Actually, we don't even have environmental engineering as a separate engineering degree and environmental science and studies are both still very up and coming at Brown.</p>

<p>Of course all of this stuff is nonsense oversimplification and generalization. I just have some fun pushing back on it.</p>

<p>Truly, I think that both can be important factors, I just don't think that students are choosing financial equal options across gaps that are so huge that prestige is a problem. Going to USNWR school number 40 versus school number 18 is not going to change your life as much as being successful at one and not at the other. I don't think that success comes from nice dorms, but I do think a far larger and more inclusive definition of happiness and fit has an effect on these things. I'm not so shallow as to connect happiness and fit to pretty much anything student life related. Personally, when I think fit, I'm thinking solely academics, philosophy, and opportunities that are specifically important to me. Sure, not everyone thinks that way, but that's still a huge part of fit for most people and a huge part of happiness and, I think, often a larger factor than sometimes arbitrary distinctions in prestige.</p>

<p>I'm not comparing, say, SUNY Binghamton and John Hopkins, money being equal, I'm thinking more the kid comparing, oh say, Cornell and Case Western or Davidson and Oberlin or say, SUNY Buffalo and SUNY New Paltz.</p>

78

<p>There are no gymnastics or any other sport or academic scholarships at Yale, Brown or any ivy. There is only need based aid.</p>

79

<p>That's true, hmom, and at most of the schools at Ivy levels that need based aid meets 100% of demonstrated need or more.</p>

<p>The result, in my experience, is that the education is affordable for most applicants. Maybe not as easy, but affordable. ROI includes both income potential later, but also intangible gains. How much you factor one versus the other in determining whether additional financial burden is worth it is up to individuals, I think, and there is no single model there. However, I think it's unfair to compare any two schools between prestige and feel if there is a third, far more important factor-- cost. I'm assuming we're down to the balance between these two things-- all else is essentially equal.</p>

80

<p>Ivies give money to athletes as well as special admissions. They just dont call them "athletic" scholarships. A rose by any other name...</p>