A Few Questions About Applying to Oxford

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hi, </p>

<p>I'm an American junior and I've been interested in applying to Oxford for a while, but I never took the time to really find out exactly what their application process is like until recently. Essentially what I've gleaned from my recent research is that:</p>

<ol>
<li>Oxford doesn't care at all about ECs and GPA</li>
<li>Oxford wants 5s on AP Exams pertaining to the course you wish to pursue</li>
<li>Oxford wants a high SAT I and high SAT II scores (high 700s to 800)</li>
<li>The interview is a HUGE factor in the admission process</li>
<li>I have to take the TSA for the course I wish to pursue (E&M)</li>
</ol>

<p>My current statistics:</p>

<p>Standardized Tests
SAT I: 2340 one sit down
SAT II: 730 Biology (I don't think it matters since I want to study E&M, but just in case)
AP Biology Exam: 5</p>

<p>Current Courses:
AP Physics C
AP Calculus BC
AP US History
IB English
IB Spanish 4
Other junk</p>

<p>Tests I will be taking this year (next week actually, for the APs)
AP Physics C Exam
AP Calculus BC Exam
AP US History Exam
SAT II Math I and Math II
SAT II US History</p>

<p>Courses I will be taking next year:
AP Macroeconomics
AP Microeconomics
AP Statistics
AP Environmental Science
Bunch of random business stuff</p>

<p>Essentially my plan for high school was to take extremely advanced hard courses (even if I want to study something else) in order to impress colleges. Unfortunately, Oxford requires scores in classes pertaining to the course I'm looking to pursue. Aside from Calc, I really don't see how anything I'm taking pertains to economics and management. They lean a lot closer to engineering, something I hate studying. Again, I only took these classes because they were the hardest offered at my school.</p>

<p>Onto the questions.</p>

<p>Anyways, would Oxford even consider me for interview with the classes I'm taking? I realize my Bio SATs might drag me down just a bit, but my scores are pretty good. I have a 2340 SAT score and I'm predicting 5s for my AP Exams (which I should be furiously studying for at this moment) and close to 800s for my SAT IIs. </p>

<p>I'm taking 100% business courses next year, since I will have taken all the difficult courses at my school aside from AP Chemistry (I'm terrible at chemistry). Would Oxford by any chance give me a conditional offer? </p>

<p>Also, how is the TSA? I've heard it's like a harder SATs, can anyone confirm this and elaborate?</p>

<p>In addition, what are the interviews like? I've heard that they are more academically based even though they don't actually care if you get the questions right- they care more about how you think through them. How exactly do they go? </p>

<p>Thanks for reading!</p>

2

<p>I would imagine Oxford would consider you for an interview for E&M with those classes. On the E&M admissions pages, the only “required” subject is Mathematics, so far as I can tell. [Economics</a> and Management - Entrance requirements - University of Oxford](<a href=“http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/economics_and_management/economics_and_2.html]Economics”>http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/economics_and_management/economics_and_2.html)</p>

<p>You may get a conditional offer based on your classes next year, or you may get an unconditional offer based on the classes you have already taken if Oxford feels you have already fulfilled the entrance requirements. </p>

<p>Be aware that E&M at Oxford is not “business-like” in the sense you may be thinking; it is not a vocational degree that trains you to be a business manager. It entails the academic study of economics and theories of management rather than practical training. The reason I say this is because you mention you dislike engineering - if this is because you dislike maths E&M may not be for you; economics at Oxford is <em>heavily</em> maths-based. </p>

<p>I don’t know anything about the TSA so won’t comment on that. </p>

<p>In terms of the interviews, obviously it helps if you get the answers right… if there is a correct answer! :wink: They care about the way you use your reasoning skills to come to a logical conclusion, and certainly if you are given a question that does have a correct answer (e.g. a maths problem) you will be expected to either get to the right answer or get close to it. </p>

<p>The purpose of the interview is two-fold: firstly, it gives tutors the opportunity to see how you respond to new material, how you reason, how you assimilate information to come to a logical conclusion and how you defend your answers. Secondly, it gives you the opportunity to see what a tutorial is like.</p>

<p>The general structure of the interview will be something like this:

  1. Tutors will greet you and welcome you to Oxford.
  2. You will be asked a few generic questions (e.g. “why do you want to study E&M?”).
  3. You will be asked subject-specific questions, which may be based on a problem set or article. If it’s an article, you may be given time before the interview to read it.
  4. You may be asked a few questions about your other interests, particularly if they relate to E&M. Not all tutors will do this.
  5. At the end you will have a few minutes to ask tutors your own questions. Make sure you do this! One of the best ways to leave a poor impression is to fail to prepare questions to ask the interviewers.</p>

<p>The subject-specific questions will take up most of the interview, which lasts about 30-40 mins. </p>

<p>You can read reports written by people who have done E&M interviews here: [oxbridge</a> admissions](<a href=“http://oxbridge-admissions.info/profiles-list.php?w=oxford]oxbridge”>Oxbridge Admissions)</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the reply! It answers a lot of my questions really thoroughly.</p>

<p>It’s not so much that I dislike Math as much as I dislike Engineering. I don’t mind using high level math for economics- I just hate applying it to stuff like physics. One, because it revolves more around application; two, because I honestly don’t care about being able to find the motional emf of a circular loop. I doubt that’s going to help me in business.</p>

<p>I am still extremely afraid of the interview. I’ve heard that only around 50 US students are accepted a year to Oxford. I like your explanation of it, but I don’t understand how Oxford differentiates between the smartest kids in the world. Honestly, I have no idea of the qualities they are looking for. </p>

<p>I’m quite receptive to “tutorial” like teaching, which is one of the reasons why I want to apply in the first place. But I can’t seem to figure out whether they want an applicant to be a “know-it-all” who’s studied college economics extensively, a clueless creative genius who pieces answers from completely new knowledge, or something in between.</p>

<p>Also, thanks for the tip about having questions prepared! I probably would have been tongue-tied at that point in the interview otherwise!</p>

4

<p>Yes, according to the 2011 Admissions Stats 46 applicants with American nationality were accepted. But why shouldn’t you be one of them next year? They have to pick someone, right? :)</p>

<p>Oxford can’t tell the difference between the smartest applicants. And in part, the interview is not about that. It’s intended to simulate a tutorial. The tutorial is only one way of teaching and learning - you might be the most intelligent person in the world and not derive any benefit from it if you just don’t learn that way. Similarly, you may be bright and get a lot from it if you thrive on discussion and debate. The tutorial method is not right for everyone, and if it’s not right for you that doesn’t say anything about your intellectual ability. People much smarter than me get rejected every year. I know, because I have mentored applicants for the past 4 years and some of the people I meet are far more intelligent and eloquent than I ever could be.</p>

<p>So to come back to your question - what is Oxford looking for? - they are looking for bright, motivated, passionate people who will benefit from the tutorial method. That could include know-it-alls, clueless geniuses or people in between :slight_smile: And you know what, most students at Oxford will be those in-between people. </p>

<p>I am an in-between person. I’m not a know-it-all and I’m not clueless. I read a lot. I think about what I read. And I love, love, love talking about what I read!</p>

<p>What needs to come through in the interview is your passion. You are clearly smart - you wouldn’t have the stats that you do and be thinking about applying if you weren’t. The interview is not a test - it’s an opportunity to talk about a subject you love with world experts. </p>

<p>The E&M admissions pages state that the interview is not a test of your economics knowledge - some people won’t have had the opportunity to study economics formally before, for example. But do you keep an eye on economic trends in the US? Do you have a view on the IMF? Should we eliminate third world debt? Is management a science? They are looking for someone who has read a bit, and thought a bit, and can talk about it a bit. That’s all. :)</p>

5

<p>Laylah</p>

<p>Thanks for your detailed post. Very useful. How about Cambridge? Do you know if Cambridge takes more American applicants with AP curriculum than Oxford or is the number the same (you mentioned 47 in 2011 at Oxford). Do you have the statistics for Cambridge as well?</p>

6

<p>Cambridge doesn’t break its admissions statistics down in the same way as Oxford, so as far as I can see you can’t tell what nationality applicants are. The most recent report from Cambridge is here: <a href=“http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/reporter/2010-11/special/14/undergrad_stats.pdf[/url]”>http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/reporter/2010-11/special/14/undergrad_stats.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Oxford states that in 2011, 19 applicants with APs or SATs as their main qualification were offered a place. However, we don’t know for certain that they were also American. They could have been international students studying at American schools for example. </p>

<p>There is no way to tell how many applicants were **both<a href=“a”>/B</a> American and (b) followed the AP curriculum.</p>

<p>Basically what I’m saying is, don’t read too much into the stats. They are helpful to an extent but they do not go into enough detail to be used for individual cases.</p>

7

<p>^ Thanks laylah…</p>

<p>You mentioned "
Oxford states that in 2011, 19 applicants with APs or SATs as their main qualification were offered a place" </p>

<p>Could you please share the source/link of this information? Also do you the 19 is out of how many in total that were offered a place in Oxford?</p>

<p>Thank you</p>

8

<p>

Here: [Qualifications</a> - University of Oxford](<a href=“http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statistics/qualifications.html]Qualifications”>http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statistics/qualifications.html)</p>

9

<p>Hi query - yes, the AP/SATs information is from the link 082349 posted (scroll down to “Type of qualification”). That’s out of a total of 3047 applicants who received offers to attend, also from the link above.</p>

10

<p>Here is a link to TSA prep and explanation: [TSA</a> Oxford Test Preparation | University Admissions Tests from Cambridge Assessment](<a href=“http://www.admissionstests.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/adt/tsaoxford/Test+Preparation]TSA”>http://www.admissionstests.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/adt/tsaoxford/Test+Preparation) </p>

<p>I don’t know that they don’t care at all about GPA, but the TSA is certainly a very important factor. If you score well on that, you’re much more likely to get an interview, especially because they don’t quite know what to do with American qualifications, so far as I can tell. </p>

<p>You shouldn’t be afraid of the interview! They just want to get a sense of you and see if you’ll work well with the tutorial system, because it’s so intimate and also because it depends so much on your studying independently. I’m Oxford biased, but I’m sure Cambridge is lovely too :)</p>

<p>Like somebody else said, they don’t expect you to have actually completed your classes and if you get an offer, it will most likely be conditional on your AP grades, etc.</p>

<p>Have you been to the Student Room? It’s sort of like a British CC and there are lots of people there who have applied to Oxbridge and have useful information.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

11

<p>laylah and o8239 - thank you … Very useful statistics - .6% - 19 out of 307 seems abysmally low. Any idea, what were the TOTAL number of AP applicants out of which 19 offers where made… … that is 19/total number of AP/SAT applicants? Knowing this total would be more interesting to know how many US qualifications applicants applied and what was the acceptance rate since we know the absolute number is 19…</p>

12

<p>Hi query. Unfortunately, so far as I can tell, Oxford doesn’t release the total number of applicants with APs. They will probably have this information, however, so you could always email Admissions and ask. </p>

<p>That said, I’m not sure how useful it would be. When applying there are a couple of key questions to consider:
(1) Do I have the required qualifications for the course?
(2) Do I have good enough grades/exam results?</p>

<p>The fact that some applicants are accepted with APs suggests that, depending on the course you choose, APs are suitable qualifications. That’s the most important thing. Don’t stress about the %. </p>

<p>Oxford accepts those with an appropriate educational background, which APs provide in many cases, who will benefit from the teaching method. That’s it. Really! :)</p>

13

<p>OP -
oxford doesnt really care about the courses you will be taking next year. Your hurdles to get an interview are as follows:
– SAT score
– 3 AP at a 5 grade or 3 SAT2s at 700 and above, or a combo of AP and SAT2 – the ap.sat2 need to be relevant to your course of study
– your essay
– your school recommendations
– your TSA grade - you must receive above a certain score (varies by a few points every year, you wont find out till after the process)
Once the college that you are applying to likes all aspects of the above (ie if they hate your essay but your scores are qualifying, you’re out of luck) - they will offer you an interview. (there are variations in this such as they can pawn you off onto another college, put you into the general pull, etc)
–then it’s upto you to pass that interview.
good luck in the process.</p>

14

<p>

</p>

<p>Funny that you asked that considering that the UK is far more heavily indebted than many so-called “third-world” countries.</p>

15

<p>I suggest you contact the Oxford Students Union and make contact with their officer handling overseas students. In the case of Oxford, the VAST majority of Americans who were accepted attended American or international schools, in the UK or overseas. You should also note that you will be required to pay the much higher overseas tuition rate and that there is very little, if any, financial aid available. Moreover, the British Government has now made it exceptionally hard for non-EU students to work during summers (Oxford will forbid you to work during the academic year).</p>

<p>It is also true the EC don’t count, and the interview is exceptionally important. If accepted, you will be told what AP scores you need (they will tell you the exams you must take too). They won’t consider any other AP scores and if you don’t get the score they specify, your offer of admission will be cancelled.</p>

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<p>I’m one of the 13 students who was accepted with APs and SATs counted in the table linked above. Here’s what you should know:</p>

<p>-Oxford does not care about your GPA. I omitted mine from my application and was never asked about it. If you apply to Cambridge, you’ll be asked.
-Contrary to what the above poster says, the work restrictions do not affect you. You may work full time during the summer during your degree. The work restrictions aren’t relevant to you until after you graduate.
-The above poster is also mistaken about international schools, in my experience as a student and as an undergraduate interview helper. I’d like to see a citation for that statistic.
-Your qualifications (APs and SATs and the like) aren’t important beyond getting you to interview. They don’t form the basis of admissions decisions. Those will be based on submitted written work and/or admissions tests, combined with your interview performance. So don’t spend too long worrying about your qualifications- as long as you’re qualified, you’re fine.</p>

17

<p>A current Oxford student on here states that the work restrictions do not affect you. Wrong, unless you intend to break the law. There is a 20 hour restriction. The British Government also is legislating to prohibit international students from working at all. And it is now virtually impossible to got a “post qualification visa”. Don’t believe me. Check out the Home Office website.</p>

18

<p>So what happens after you graduate, can you apply for jobs over in UK as an American citizen?</p>

19

<p>You’re mistaken about the 20 hour work restriction. That only applies for work during term time (which by the way I would have highly discourage given the Oxford workload). </p>

<p>During vacation you are free to take up any full-time internships with no qualms of breaking the law. After graduation, you can apply for jobs in the UK itself but you would require your employer to sponsor your work visa.</p>

<p>As for OP, I have just finished my first year “reading” E&M so feel free to message me if you have questions about the TSA, the interview etc. Unfortunately, I didn’t take the APs (IB is always a better bet :wink: ) so can’t help you on that front alone.</p>

20

<p>For what its worth, here’s my two cents:</p>

<p>1) I did four out of my nine APs self-study (two with help from the school, two all the way on my own). My school was not particularly helpful, but if you really want to take a course that’s not offered, it is entirely possible to take the APs on your own using guidebooks and still get 5s. Just remember to sign up by March!
2) Get someone to help you with your personal statement. You can find services online, and although some are disreputable, others are genuinely just trying to help you out - mine was proof-read by a history tutor from one of the other colleges. Since I was coming through the US system, I had no idea what was entailed in a personal statement, and it really helped. They won’t write it for you, but they will let you know if you’ve screwed up.
3) Get someone with ‘weight’ to write your rec. If you can, get a department head, principal, etc. to write it - Oxford does notice stuff like that.
4) Look at past questions from the TSA before going in. It will help you feel less stressed and looking at how they grade will help you understand the test better.
5) Remember that which college isn’t the important part, and say ‘yes’ when they ask you if you would consider a Permanent Private Hall (PPH) instead. When deciding which college to apply to, look at the alternative prospectus for help.
6) If you get to interview, then PM me and I’ll be more than happy to help however I can!</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

<p>~Kathy</p>