<p>In case you can't come up with a link that proves that such a premed review board at Harvard and Princeton exists that will actually bar subpar candidates from applying, I got another idea. Since you evidently don't believe me, fine, let's jointly head to the Princeton and Harvard sections of CC and pose it as a question to the people over there. There are lots of Princeton and Harvard students and alumni over there, and surely some of them will be able to confirm or deny whether such a board that does what you say it does actually exists. </p>
<p>So I've given you several opportunnities to prove what you are saying. If you don't want to utilize any of these means, then I think you have to concede that it is an unsupported assertion, and if so, then don't keep bringing it up. </p>
<p>Look, I'm not trying to be combative. Everybody, myself included, has, at some point in their lives, made assertions that have been shown to be wrong. That's why it's important to check your facts. And if you don't have access to the facts, then you should ask those that do. I'm sure there are people at the Princeton and Harvard parts of CC who will be able to give a definitive answer as to whether the review boards that you say exist really do exist.</p>
<p>ive been told by pre-med advisors during phone calls i have made to BOTH harvard and princeton and BOTH have told me of such review boards in existance at the colleges.</p>
<p>Brandeis has them as well just in case u were interested. Dont believe me, place a phone call yourself to these people. </p>
<p>You cant always rely on the internet to give you everything you need...this sort of publicized information would discourage many pre-meds from these schools. Wouldn''t you agree? I mean, it discouraged me.</p>
<p>You dont need to believe me, but I know what i was told so thats all i need to say.</p>
<p>Do review boards exist at those schools? Yes, in the sense that there are centralized committees at these schools that serve to consolidate your rec letters and other information in your application and present a unified endorsement letter to the med-school adcoms. </p>
<p>But that's not what you said. You said that those review boards also serve to exclude subpar candidates. That's wrong. And if you don't believe that, then I would ask you to call those schools back and ask. Or even better, let's take it to the Harvard/Princeton/whatever-school-you-want section of CC and ask the people there. Somebody there is bound to tell the truth. Not everybody in those sections is a booster for that school. I've read a lot of not-so-nice dish about Harvard and Princeton and every other school in those sections. If such review boards are really doing what you are saying they do, then somebody there ought to be able to corroborate your story. </p>
<p>Besides, I would ask, what are you afraid of? If what you're saying is really true, then surely you will be able to get a current student or an alumni of that school to corroborate your story, right? So why not join me and together, we'll pose the question to them. If you're right, then I'm perfectly honorable enough to come back here and say that you're right. However, if you're not, I believe you ought to be able to be honorable enough to retract your claim.</p>
<p>Now, again, if you are going to assert that this is a lie, and Stanford really does have such a committee, then fine. Let's go to the Stanford section of CC and ask the people there whether there is a "secret" Stanford premed committee that serves to eliminate the bad premeds from applying. Like I said, if there is, then surely somebody is going to be able to confirm it. There is a LOT of other dirt about Stanford being discussed over there, so I don't know why anybody would refrain from talking about the secret Stanford premed committee, if it really exists.</p>
<p>and thats exactly what these committes do, obviously, no one can tell you what to do and what not to do, BUT, without the letter of rec that this committe provides, then u have such a small chance, that people just dont do it. Thats like saying, will you still apply to an ivy with a 1000 SAT, you could, but you wont. </p>
<p>You can keep giving me sights, but fact is ive questioned the matter with real people from both of these schools and have been a pain in the butt about the matter and have gotten the answer that u refuse to accept from both schools.</p>
<p>Go to the Stanford section of CC, but again, do you know these people are for real. No. You dont. So how bout you call the school and ask, instead of hiding behind your computer.</p>
<p>In fact, I have already talked to Harvard and MIT about this. Not just called them, but I actually walked into the offices of the relevant people and asked them whether they have premed committees that will bar or discourage subpar people from applying. The answer they gave me was an emphatic 'No'. The committee rec letter is just a compilation of your existing prof letters of rec combined with other snippets from your application. Nothing more, nothing less. Nobody is getting barred, nobody is getting discouraged from applying by the committee. However, the point is, everybody gets a letter of rec. Obviously the quality of the letter of rec varies, depending chiefly on how good your prof recs are - the better your prof recs, the better your unified letter of rec. But that's a far different thing from saying that the committee discourages you from applying. </p>
<p>Of course that was a while ago. But I could ask current students that I know to go back and ask the same questions, and when I get back to the area, (maybe in a few months) I can ask personally. And I'm fairly certain that they are going to tell me 'No' again.</p>
<p>Now, if you are saying that the premed-process, in terms of getting high grades and high test scores, discourages people, then of course that's true. But that happens anywhere. The guy with a 2.0 from Harvard probably won't apply to med-school just like the guy with a 2.0 from a state school probably won't apply to med-school. That has nothing to do with the committee. </p>
<p>The issue at hand is what is the committee doing. From my sources, they do not go around discouraging anybody. </p>
<p>I give you Internet cites because, as I said in the other thread, they are checkable. Personal conversations with people are not checkable. You said it yourself - you say that the Stanford people on CC may not be for real. Well, turn that question around - how do I know that you are for real? If verifiability is the real problem, then why would a phone conversation to a school be any more reliable than the school's Internet site? If a school is willing to lie to me on their own website, then it stands to reason that they would also be willing to lie to me on a phonecall, right? The point is, if reliability and authenticity are the real issue, I don't see why your information is any more reliable and authentic than anybody else's. Like I said, I've talked to people who say that there is no such committee that goes around discouraging people. You say that you know such people who say the opposite. Why is your data any more reliable than mine?</p>
<p>Ok well if you think a phone call to a pre-med advisor whos number i got from 1-a letter 2-an e-mail 3-the admissions office and 4-the website (same person) isnt reliable...then idk what else to tell you.</p>
<p>That in addition to a friend of mine whos applying to medical school from Harvard told me what ive just said to you. Btw, you should read my posts more carefully...i never said that the committe itself is discouraging people, i said the lack of a letter from the committe discourages people, and it does. The committe doesnt tell you whether you can or cant apply, they just give you their rec...which is crucial. Without it from a school like harvard, your chances are cut short. THATS what i was saying.</p>
<p>Like i said in MY other post, i could care less whether you believe my sources or not, dont, but i know mine are verified and i know the road i need to take, which is DEFINATLY not the one you are suggesting.</p>
<p>So you're saying that you have written documentation (email) from an actual person, then perhaps you wouldn't mind looking at it again and giving us an actual name and contact info? Or even better, how about actually cutting and pasting the whole email here, including contact info?</p>
<p>
[quote]
i said the lack of a letter from the committe discourages people, and it does. The committe doesnt tell you whether you can or cant apply, they just give you their rec...which is crucial. Without it from a school like harvard, your chances are cut short. THATS what i was saying.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ok, so they're sayiing that the committee may or may not give you the rec, is that correct? So if I contact Harvard and ask them whether it is possible that the committee might not give you a rec if they don't deem you worthy, then they should come back with an answer of 'Yes', right? Is that what you are saying? If not, then what are you saying, and how do you propose that it be verified?</p>
<p>Look, you can go take any path you want. It doesn't affect me. However, this is a public website devoted to helping people get the information they want. I'm sure that the people reading this are not heartened by your assurances that you have access to apparently very juicy information, but that you aren't willing to reveal your sources or provide some mechanism for which it can be checked. Why not propose that mechanism? What specific people at Harvard should we be talking to that will verify what you are saying?</p>
<p>yup thats exactly wut im saying, like i said the e-mail was 3-4 months ago, i no longer have it, call the school its no hard their number is in a billion places on the website</p>
<p>Ok, I'm sure (and a bunch of other people) at CC will contact Harvard. And you're assuring us that the answer we will get from Harvard will verify that the premed committees there do indeed withhold those unified rec letters to subpar candidates. Is that correct?</p>
<p>Ok, so to all you readers out there, as you can see, Doogie has assured us that Harvard will corroborate his story. So to help you out, I have compiled some premed contact information at Harvard. As some of you already know, Harvard actually runs its premed services through its individual College houses, so here are some of the places you can go.</p>
<p>So let's get to contacting some of these advisors! I know I'm going to be contacting a bunch of them soon. Then let's all come back here and report back what we were told so we can determine one way or another what is up with these committee rec letters. However, let's be sure to report back with the name and email address/phone number of the specific advisor that we are talking to.</p>
<p>Well, since I posted the contact info, why don't you also contact them. In fact, we'll both contact them. We'll do it through email, and we'll post the responses, along with the names of the people we got responses from. However, let's post the complete emails (their contact info, our question, and their response).</p>
<p>Just tell me which Harvard houses you will be contacting so that I don't contact the same people you do. I'm sure an advisor wouldn't appreciate both of us asking him/her the same question.</p>
<p>Got the response back today. The only thing I have deleted is my name, for privacy purposes. However, everything else is EXACTLY the way it was in the email. It seems to me that a committee letter will be denied to you only if you are so foolish as to not provide the committee with the paperwork according to the deadlines. But that seems to be no different from you refusing to submit the materials for your med-school application on time. Obviously if you don't submit things on time, bad things are going to happen.</p>
<p>well, on the phone i received pretty much the same thing, HOWEVER, i was also informed that if the student has done poorly during their time at Harvard, then the committe would not provide a letter...why would they? It seems obvious that a school of this caliber would not endorse a 2.1 GPA and a 20 MCAT score.</p>
<p>What this individual wrote is understandable, and the situation i describe is probably rare...its analogous to you recieving letters from a teacher. Unless you have done poorly in the class and were a total ***, the teacher will write you a rec. This is rare, but it happens and i believe that its justified. My business teacher did it, he also refused to sign the same girls yearbook. </p>
<p>Again, its rare, but it happens. I told you the answer i received, and i read the one you have...so whether you choose to believe me or not is entirely up to you. However, not agreeing with me would just boggle my mind and would lead me to believe you just enjoy arguing with me.</p>
<p>If you had a reputation which is equivelant to that of Harvard's, would you endorse mediocrity? Why should you, it makes your school look bad. So again i was told, that if the student does poorly, he/she will not receive a letter.</p>
<p>And again, it's not about me agreeing with you or arguing with you. This has nothing to do with me vs. you. Rather, I now have an official response, in writing, from Harvard. </p>
<p>And besides, I would have to say that your situation seems like quite the corner case. Remember what we're talking about - you were trying to justify the fact that Harvard can boast of a 90% premed placement rate (and public schools cannot) due to your assertion that these committees are out there denying letters to poor candidates. Even if that is correct, look at how 'poor' has been defined. I think it's safe to say that even at the public schools that don't have any committees, very very few people with 2.1 GPA's are going to be applying to med-school - and certainly not enough to explain a difference of a 90% Harvard premed placement rate vs. the much lower (usually 40-60%) placement rate of a public school.</p>
<p>The bottom of the barrel (or even middle of the barrel) at the top publics is lower than most of Harvard. It's the top 10-25% of Berkeley, Michigan, and UCLA that really can compete with the best of the best.</p>
<p>not arguing about that, im jsut saying theres more than what meets the eye about these percentages.</p>
<p>I would give you my cousins name, the vasc. surgeon at Mt. Sinai hospital, whos an adcom at the medical school, and he will back up everything i just said, but i dont want to give his name out and have people call his office.</p>
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[quote]
I would give you my cousins name, the vasc. surgeon at Mt. Sinai hospital, whos an adcom at the medical school, and he will back up everything i just said, but i dont want to give his name out and have people call his office.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not denying that certain schools do indeed do what you have said they do - namely withhold Letters from weaker candidates or otherwise discourage them from even applying. For example, I know that Johns Hopkins behaves in the way you have suggested, in that it discourages weaker candidates from applying. </p>
<p>{Note, when I say "weaker candidates'", I don't mean students who have been found to be guilty of academic dishonesty or of crimes, or students who have performed so badly that they found themselves on academic probation or suspension, because I think every committee would balk at supporting such a student and rightfully so}. </p>
<p>The question is whether Harvard engages in this practice, and if they do, how much so. It seems to me that the official responses I have been getting from Harvard is that they do not. </p>
<p>But even if they did follow such a policy in the way you described it (i.e. no Letter for a guy with a 2.1 GPA and a 20 MCAT), it strains credulity to think that that would be the sole explanation of the difference in placement rates between Harvard and public schools. After all, even if you don't go to a school that has a premed committee, if you have a 2.1 GPA and a 20 MCAT, and you still honestly believe you can get into med-school, not to be harsh, but you're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. I would surmise that there are very very few people with such stats, whether at Harvard or any other place, who are applying to med-school.</p>