a hard decision.. ND or Navy?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
41

<p>
[quote]
I will admit one thing, though. Knowing what I know now, if I'd gotten into MIT, I would have grabbed it.</p>

<p>Tough call. VERY tough call.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>reallly? why?</p>

<p>mit is really not where my strengths lie as a person, sure, math & physics & chem is all good and fun, and some of the most enjoyable classes i have(wow, that sounded so nerdy, gross!) but thats not where and what i wanna be. plus, the people there are so drab! who carries a calculator around in their pocket and not their ID's or wallet? mit kids....</p>

42

<p>usna_aviationgirl -
Excuse me, but I have to ask...
How did you "get in to MIT yesterday"?</p>

43

<p>Read Nightengale's song - Ollie North, etc. at USNA.</p>

<p>I suspect, but don't know, that engineering is better at ND. USNA's mission is making officers, not engineers.</p>

<p>beprepn</p>

44

<p>Aviationgirl,</p>

<p>If that's not where you want to be, then why even apply?</p>

<p>In some cases (like mine), all I wanted to be was a Naval Officer. I applied to USNA, USCGA, and SUNY Maritime College (because if I didn't get into USNA, I figured I had to go SOMEWHERE). USNA was a no-brainer, especially since I was thinking USN career.</p>

<p>Now, looking back, in many ways I wish I HAD gone to MIT (if given the chance). There's something to be said about their engineering program.</p>

<p>Granted, if given the chance by the Good Lord, I probably wouldn't change a thing, but if you have to ask why choosing between MIT and USNA is a tough choice, then you're not paying attention to reality. People would commit genocide for the chance to have to make decisions like that!</p>

45

<p>Zaphod- were in NY are you from?</p>

46

<p>I was born in NYC and raised in Flushing, Queens.</p>

47

<p>"I suspect, but don't know, that engineering is better at ND. USNA's mission is making officers, not engineers."<br>
beprepn</p>

<p>I suggest that you do a little more research on service academies before you post on this site, because you're wrong. In the past, U.S. service academies only offered engineering degrees. Moreover, USNA currently is ranked among the top three undergraduate engineering programs in the United States. Candidates turn down MIT to attend USNA. Engineering better at ND than USNA??? (I almost fell off my chair...) ND only trumps USNA at football and fraternities.</p>

48

<p>Well...students may turn down MIT for USNA, but it certainly isn't because USNA has a better engineering program...:)</p>

49

<p>an article in the current issue of the Trident regarding accreditation of USNA engineering programs: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.dcmilitary.com/navy/trident/10_44/features/38733-1.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dcmilitary.com/navy/trident/10_44/features/38733-1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Outside scrutiny affirms quality of engineering division's programs </p>

<p>The Naval Academy's engineering programs were evaluated by the Engineering Accreditation Commission of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology. </p>

<p>All the evaluated programs -- aerospace engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, naval architecture, ocean engineering, and systems engineering -- impressed the reviewers. </p>

<p>In a briefing, the reviewers praised the academy's facilities, faculty members and the midshipmen enrolled in the engineering programs. </p>

<p>"As I listened to the out-brief, I was filled with respect, pride and admiration for all five of our outstanding engineering departments," said Naval Academy Superintendent Vice Adm. Rodney P. Rempt. </p>

<p>"Each reviewer commented on the quality, attitude and availability of our faculty. The reviewers were equally impressed with all of our engineering facilities. Finally, the reviewers could not say enough about the attitude and capability of our midshipmen majoring in engineering."</p>

<p>The Naval Academy's engineering programs were evaluated by the Engineering Accreditation Commission of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology. </p>

<p>All the evaluated programs -- aerospace engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, naval architecture, ocean engineering, and systems engineering -- impressed the reviewers. </p>

<p>In a briefing, the reviewers praised the academy's facilities, faculty members and the midshipmen enrolled in the engineering programs. </p>

<p>"As I listened to the out-brief, I was filled with respect, pride and admiration for all five of our outstanding engineering departments," said Naval Academy Superintendent Vice Adm. Rodney P. Rempt. </p>

<p>"Each reviewer commented on the quality, attitude and availability of our faculty. The reviewers were equally impressed with all of our engineering facilities. Finally, the reviewers could not say enough about the attitude and capability of our midshipmen majoring in engineering."</p>

50

<p>Ok?? Never said their programs weren't good. I never would have approved of USNA as an option for my son if there engineering was second rate. But if your implying it is on par with MIT...you need a reality check.</p>

51

<p>...and you need to carefully read my post. I challenged the notion that ND had a better engineering department than USNA.</p>

52

<p>ND is #45 nationally on usnews best undergraduate engineering schools with doctorate degrees. My guess is that is reasonably on-par with USNA. I think if USNA was compared with the doctorate colleges, it would end up somewhere around #80. I would be surprised if they made the top 50. Anywhere in the top 100 is a great engineering program overall.</p>

53

<p>Quite honestly, I think it would make sense for USNA to move slowly toward offering doctorate degrees. I'm not sure it is possible because then the goverment research grants would be paying the government...OOPS.</p>

<p>Top schools need endowments to fund students to do research....
That is the only way they can compete.</p>

<p>USNA does extraordinarily well with the resources and mission it has at hand. It just does not have the research dollars available to expose undergrads to the same level of engineering as the endowed colleges.</p>

<p>I'd like to see one of their bright grads help develop a plan to change that. I think that would make the ultimate service academy...one that officers could return to during their career to help improve it's stamp on society even more.</p>

54

<p>The Service Academies are not in the business of handing out master's and doctorate degrees. They're in the business of turning out eminently qualified and technically proficient leaders for the Armed Forces.</p>

<p>The fact that they can rank up there with schools that DO offer post-gradate degrees is something that speaks very well for them, as well as explains a lot of academia's snobbery toward them. Remember, these are the places where the baby-killers are trained (and if you don't believe that's what they think, guess again).</p>

<p>Sure, there are schools better than, say, USNA for engineering. MIT is the classic example. Same for Harvard and law, or Berkeley for insanity. But NONE of them can hope to hold a candle to the caliber of ALL-AROUND person the Academies put out (I'll use the pointy-headed intellectuals favorite term: "well-rounded"). We know it. THEY know it.</p>

<p>Sorry, but the yardstick to measure a university should be the quality of its graduates, not how much money is thrown at it by endowments or how much ivy it has on the walls.</p>

55

<p>I have to weigh in here...First of all, to compare USNA with a doctorate University is comparing apples to oranges. The published peer rankings are based upon undergraduate programs, graduate programs, and the quality of research conducted at a particular university. Simply put, undergrad engineering programs should only compared to other undergrad engineering programs, which is not what is being discussed here.</p>

<p>Secondly, has anyone considered the work conducted at NRL (Naval Research Labs) and the Naval Post-Graduate School in Monterrey, and the large number of Academy graduates who have gone on to conduct graduate studies at MIT, Purdue, Stanford, etc? Obviously, USNA's undergraduate program is strong enough to be on par with any undergrad program at any of the top engineering schools to allow entry into these graduate programs. My husband (PhD in Systems Engineering) has worked with Academy engineering graduates for the past 35 years in national defense projects, and finds that USNA grads are as sharp as any engineering grad from the "top-ranked engineering schools". (GO NAVY!)</p>

<p>Dad2b: My husband questions your statements: "ND is #45 nationally on usnews best undergraduate engineering schools with doctorate degrees. My guess is that is reasonably on-par with USNA. I think if USNA was compared with the doctorate colleges, it would end up somewhere around #80. I would be surprised if they made the top 50. Anywhere in the top 100 is a great engineering program overall." He asks on what basis are you making your rankings?</p>

56

<p>PS to Dad2b: Congrats to your son being accepted to MIT.</p>

57

<p>"I never would have approved of USNA as an option for my son if there engineering was second rate."</p>

<p>Dad2b: I thought parents weren't supposed to guide the choice of schools, merely be there to assist? "I" never would have approved . . . ? My understanding is you thought it was HIS choice as to whether or not USNA was the appropriate choice of schools.</p>

<p>Oh well, let's just say we agree USNA is an excellent overall school, with a specialized mission. I think somebody else said it well: You want to primarily be an engineer [architect, doctor, lawyer], there are other schools that well serve you well. You want to be the best overall person [am I actually agreeing with Zaphod?], the Naval Academy is tough to beat.</p>

58

<p>
[quote]
the Naval Academy is tough to beat.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><polite cough=""></polite></p>

<p>Try "impossible". ;)</p>

59

<p>Wanna cry along with me?</p>

<p>I have a good friend, a wonderful woman who I pray with weekly for our children.</p>

<p>When I shared that my daughter got her LOA to the Naval Academy she told me that her husband actually went through Plebe Summer, but dropped out because - in her words - he didn't think their engineering program was as strong as he'd like.</p>

<p>I looked at her and couldn't decided whether I should laugh or cry. I felt like slugging the husband. I know there must have been 100's of young people who would have given their eye teeth for that slot he had to attend USNA...and for him to drop out after 6 weeks for what I consider such a LAME excuse as 'not having a rigorous engineering program' blew my mind. I mean, if this guy was 'so smart' I figured he could have checked out the engineering program before he signed on to I-Day!!! I decided he wimped out of USNA and used that as his justification. It worked for his wife. OK, this was alomost 20 years ago - but all I could think of was the many many young people we read on this forum who have such a strong desire to attend USNA - and the 1000's who have been turned away since then, knowing that this man has no clue as to their pain .</p>

<p>I decided to say nothing. This dear woman had no clue as to the myriad of emotions swirling around inside of me. </p>

<p>All I can say is that my husband, class of '72 was laid off in Jan. 1992 from General Dynamics, San Diego. He had a mechanical engineering degree from USNA. In the course of the next 11 months he had 13, yes THIRTEEN job interviews and almost every complany told him his USNA engineering degree was the reason they were even considering hiring him! Remember that, all you hopeful engineering majors there at USNA. We never dreamed his degree carried that kind of capital all those years later.</p>

<p>A biotech company finally hired my husband, and he just completed 11 years there. His boss told him that any USNA degree means the person if bright, talented and flexible for job training. God bless that boss!!! He gets it right!!!</p>

60

<p>But not impossible. . .it could be argued that graduates of the Academy are not well adjusted for civilian life.
The U.S. is a civilian-based society [thankfully] and midshipmen lead a very narrow, isolated existence; thus, "overall" Academy graduates are not the best prepared. I am not sure, in any event, how one might define "best" prepared. Most 23-year olds are not very well prepared for what life throws at you.
Whether or not a graduate that decides to leave the military ever adjusts to civilian life is also arguable. A one-dimensional outlook on undsiciplined civilians; a superiority complex; an inability to relate to others can be problematic for some.
I have been in and out of governmental, para-military employment for many years. I have personal experience with many ex-military, ex-law enforcement types that question the civilian world.
That's what makes life interesting I suppose . . .</p>